Eklund: Do McDavid, Crosbby, and AO Belong in the Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr Group?

Yes.

When is the buzzcast coming back? Can you do a video explaining what happened? I watched every episode w you Mike and Russ for years!

Sorry they dont make the cut, and this is coming from a Penguins fan. Lemieux, Orr, Gretzky all changed the game. As outstanding as Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin, Jagr, etc... have been, they didnt change the game the way Mario, Wayne, Orr did. And Ovechkin getting a goals record doesnt change a thing in that regard. Jagr almost caught up in points and still isnt regarded on that level, so neither should #8.

The Mount Rushmore of Hockey

Gretzky

Lemieux

Orr

Howe

Always and forever.

Sorry they dont make the cut, and this is coming from a Penguins fan. Lemieux, Orr, Gretzky all changed the game. As outstanding as Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin, Jagr, etc... have been, they didnt change the game the way Mario, Wayne, Orr did. And Ovechkin getting a goals record doesnt change a thing in that regard. Jagr almost caught up in points and still isnt regarded on that level, so neither should #8.
- Amanion

to your point though, how could anyone really change the game today? there's an extent to which it can evolve, you aren't gonna revolutionize the way it's played with every generation.

to your point though, how could anyone really change the game today? there's an extent to which it can evolve, you aren't gonna revolutionize the way it's played with every generation.
- Pat1993

I would argue McDavid has changed the game. A freaking skater winning the Conn Smythe on a losing team with the 4th highest point total ever in the playoffs...and the only two guys to get higher are Mario (1) and Gretzky (2)

I would argue McDavid has changed the game. A freaking skater winning the Conn Smythe on a losing team with the 4th highest point total ever in the playoffs...and the only two guys to get higher are Mario (1) and Gretzky (2)
- AdamFrench

I would tend to agree he's a bit of a game changer, yeah. there isn't really another player like him.

Going to have to argue that Messier deserves to be in that secondary list. Won 2 cups after he and Wayne were separated, both under different circumstances. Tough like Howe. True captain. Class act.

No Jean Béliveau? Discuss.

Yes (McDavid).…Lemieux, Orr, Gretzky, McDavid are the four best players is the games history.

Sorry they dont make the cut, and this is coming from a Penguins fan. Lemieux, Orr, Gretzky all changed the game. As outstanding as Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin, Jagr, etc... have been, they didnt change the game the way Mario, Wayne, Orr did. And Ovechkin getting a goals record doesnt change a thing in that regard. Jagr almost caught up in points and still isnt regarded on that level, so neither should #8.
- Amanion

To be fair if ovechkin had 80s/90s goaltending he probably have another 300 goals.

Mario,whyne and orr would not be even close to the level they are in today's game.

Players are better, goaltending is extremely better.

To be fair if ovechkin had 80s/90s goaltending he probably have another 300 goals.

Mario,whyne and orr would not be even close to the level they are in today's game.

Players are better, goaltending is extremely better.
- SlNlSTER

I've heard this theory before.

You can't just transplant the player "as-is" into that era. Ovechkin has benefited from training, conditioning and equipment of the 2000s, rules. And... there's a lot more emphasis on set plays etc.

Put him in the 80s with 80s equipment, training, etc and he'd not be the same player.

Plus - he is not heads and shoulders above his peers - the players playing the same rules and era. Gretz, Lemiux and Orr were head and shoulders above their peers.

I would argue McDavid has changed the game. A freaking skater winning the Conn Smythe on a losing team with the 4th highest point total ever in the playoffs...and the only two guys to get higher are Mario (1) and Gretzky (2)
- AdamFrench

McJesus you could possibly make a case for it, but not the other two.

But - is McDavid that much better than his peers? Not so sure. Yes he's had some great seasons, but he has not distanced himself from the competition like Orr, Gretz and Lemieux did.

That should read Orr Gretzky Howe Lemieux BTW

I've heard this theory before.

You can't just transplant the player "as-is" into that era. Ovechkin has benefited from training, conditioning and equipment of the 2000s, rules. And... there's a lot more emphasis on set plays etc.

Put him in the 80s with 80s equipment, training, etc and he'd not be the same player.

Plus - he is not heads and shoulders above his peers - the players playing the same rules and era. Gretz, Lemiux and Orr were head and shoulders above their peers.
- Nasty_Duck

imagine if they had quality knee surgery in the 70s

Yes.
- AdamFrench

why waste words.. but if your name isnt on the cup..

To be fair if ovechkin had 80s/90s goaltending he probably have another 300 goals.

Mario,whyne and orr would not be even close to the level they are in today's game.

Players are better, goaltending is extremely better.
- SlNlSTER

The 90's produced three of the best goaltenders to ever play the game. Roy, Hasek, Belfour. Mario Lemieux is the greatest goal scorer in NHL history, followed by Gretzky, Ovechkin and then Mike Bossy.

Going by seasons, before Mario was struck by cancer he'd played 745 games scoring 613 goals. Through Gretzky's first 774 games he'd scored 637 goals on terrible goaltending. Through Ovechkin's first 779 games he scored 525 goals.

Crosby had the majority of 2 seasons wiped out due to injuries. He lost like 130 games then came back at an elite level and added two more Cups to his resume. He's absolutely one of the best. Total point counts aren't everything especially when you're comparing players today versus wide open hockey 20+ years ago.

Crosby had the majority of 2 seasons wiped out due to injuries. He lost like 130 games then came back at an elite level and added two more Cups to his resume. He's absolutely one of the best. Total point counts aren't everything especially when you're comparing players today versus wide open hockey 20+ years ago.
- insomnia183

Absolutely, he is undoubtedly one of the best ever, but he's not Mount Rushmore worthy. He's that next level guy with the likes of Sakic, Yzerman, Jagr, Messier (barf), Henrik Sedin, etc.

Crazy comment. There are trailblazers who deserve to be on that list. Richard when the talent was on six teams. He scored 50 in 50. How many goals would be scored if you only played against the top five teams every night? When holding and inteference was allowed.

The list seams to only include those since he got his first TV.

Eklund: Do McDavid, Crosbby, and AO Belong in the Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr Group?
- Eklund

never heard of Crosbby

be interesting to see how many goals Ovie would have if the games missed due to lockouts and the covid seasons didnt happen

No

imagine if they had quality knee surgery in the 70s
- 77emac77

Yes to the Big Four players.