To me the result is the same regardless of perceived effort level. The only thing that is a constant is the lack of overall talent.
- mickel25

I dont think getting rid of country club has anything to do with results this year. So we have the same results, but without top end players like G and Jake. So once we get talent we should have better results.

You simply don’t win with that type of goaltending.
- landros 2

I think they play at least 500 hockey with Hart and make the playoffs

[quote=Tomahawk]
good but sad read...flyers are clueless

I think they play at least 500 hockey with Hart and make the playoffs
- WhiskeyMan

Considering how Hart is a career 16-18-2 in March w/ a .899 SV% and a career 2-8-2 in April with a .879 SV% I would say not likely.

One of the biggest knocks on Hart is how much he fades in the second half. People knock Ersson for it now but it was always the case w/ Hart too.

I think they play at least 500 hockey with Hart and make the playoffs
- WhiskeyMan

Hart is average at best in the NHL.

That is an unintelligent and flat out stupid reply.

I've been on this site a long time and as always, there are certain people in the Flyers organization who can do no wrong in your eyes, and others you crucify on a daily basis.



You obviously missed the point. There is no other gear. They've been playing at their highest gear all season. Has nothing to do with being professional and everything to do with human limitation.

I didn't miss any "point". You simply choose to ignore that there is potentially "another gear" for professional athletes, or any athlete worth a damn for that matter. It's a major reason why playoff hockey is such an amazing spectacle. It's also why some guys are considered clutch performers and others aren't.

I'm not going to continue to engage in a debate with someone that simply refuses to see any perspective but their own. YOU DO YOU!




Has nothing to do with a narrative. I commented on what I chose to. Which is my prerogative
- MJL

Hart is average at best in the NHL.
- Flyfly

Peterson, Sandstrom, Fedotov and second half Ersson clearly are well below average.

Peterson, Sandstrom, Fedotov and second half Ersson clearly are well below average.
- mickel25

Second half Hart has also historically been well below average.

I'm so tired of this Flyers "culture" narrative. As if every great team doesn't work hard to get where they need to get. If they didn't work hard and play the right way they wouldn't be great teams.

The difference with the Flyers seems to be that culture is the end all be all and that talent is secondary.

It terrifies me that Torts would have any more influence than he already has if he moved to the front office and had any more outsized say in to what kind of players this team should draft and sign moving forward.

Ill use the Gurianov trade as an example. That guy seems to have some talent, but it's the type of talent Torts doesn't value. Ill bet Torts and Briere were not on the same page, and so Torts just decided to not use him in any way that played to the type of player Gurianov could be.

Torts doesn't know how to use talented players. He feels like every player should be a grinder first. We can only hope to GOD he is not still behind the bench when Michkov arrives or he will be playing him on the 4th line 8 minutes a night for not playing the right way because he didn't block a shot.

I'm not the GM.
- MJL

Yes, but you constantly bash the GM, and POHO, so I think it's a fair question to ask how you would do anything different. In the end, I am not surprised by the response.

I think a large percentage of the fanbase is confused and torn as to whether they want a rebuild or not.

All year, Torts/Danny B/Jonesy have been saying this is a rebuild and they were sellers at the deadline to reinforce that stance.

Now people are mad at them for trading Walker (which was absolutely the right move, especially if this team is years away, which according to the Michkov timeline they are) and yelling about the team missing the playoffs.

I think everyone needs to realize the Flyers playoff push was less about how good of a team they are/were and more about how goddamn awful the Devils, Red Wings, Isles, Pens, and Caps were this year.

Considering how Hart is a career 16-18-2 in March w/ a .899 SV% and a career 2-8-2 in April with a .879 SV% I would say not likely.

One of the biggest knocks on Hart is how much he fades in the second half. People knock Ersson for it now but it was always the case w/ Hart too.
- Tomahawk

Would have been interesting to see if ersson would have kept Hart "fresh" and vis-versa

Peterson, Sandstrom, Fedotov and second half Ersson clearly are well below average.
- mickel25

all goalies drafted by the flyers. So any faith in the other goalies they have in the system?

I think a large percentage of the fanbase is confused and torn as to whether they want a rebuild or not.

All year, Torts/Danny B/Jonesy have been saying this is a rebuild and they were sellers at the deadline to reinforce that stance.

Now people are mad at them for trading Walker (which was absolutely the right move, especially if this team is years away, which according to the Michkov timeline they are) and yelling about the team missing the playoffs.

I think everyone needs to realize the Flyers playoff push was less about how good of a team they are/were and more about how goddamn awful the Devils, Red Wings, Isles, Pens, and Caps were this year.
- lindros's lung

Im not.....strip it...tank tank tank

Yes, but you constantly bash the GM, and POHO, so I think it's a fair question to ask how you would do anything different. In the end, I am not surprised by the response.
- jd250

he will never ever lay out a detailed plan. that is his M/O.

The style of play under Tortorella is not a style of play that wins in today's NHL. It can make a team more competitive. Tortorella needs to be removed. They aren't moving forward. It's a mirage. What they're doing is blocking moving forward.
- MJL

The style the Flyers play is the style they HAVE TO PLAY in order to compete, because as we all know the Flyers do not have high end talent. Look in their last 7 games before last night, the Fyers generated 85 High Danger Chances, but only scored 3 goals, that's a 3% conversion rate. This points to the lack of high end talent and thus the ability to finish. It does not in ANY WAY point to the style of play under Tortorella as a problem, in fact it highlights that his way actually WORKS!!

I dont think getting rid of country club has anything to do with results this year. So we have the same results, but without top end players like G and Jake. So once we get talent we should have better results.
- bradster

When they had Giroux they had very little to no depth. Now they have relatively good depth and no Giroux level player(s). They finished 6th, 8th, 7th and are currently 6th in the Metro over the last four years.

Doesn't the lack of an overall talented roster trump the perceived effort level?

Would have been interesting to see if ersson would have kept Hart "fresh" and vis-versa
- THE BLACK HAND

Ersson I don't know.

But Hart never played that many games and always had somebody to share the net with him... and he still faded like clockwork.

I think a large percentage of the fanbase is confused and torn as to whether they want a rebuild or not.

All year, Torts/Danny B/Jonesy have been saying this is a rebuild and they were sellers at the deadline to reinforce that stance.

Now people are mad at them for trading Walker (which was absolutely the right move, especially if this team is years away, which according to the Michkov timeline they are) and yelling about the team missing the playoffs.

I think everyone needs to realize the Flyers playoff push was less about how good of a team they are/were and more about how goddamn awful the Devils, Red Wings, Isles, Pens, and Caps were this year.
- lindros's lung

they sold 1 pending UFA. that is not an indication of a rebuild.

I'm going to spell it out and reiterate what I've been saying all season and last season. For those who are still buying the nonsense of culture and fixing the room. That's all bullpoop. Not that that those issues don't have any value but that's not how you build a legit contending team. You acquire high level talent. Coach them properly with the correct strategies and systems. Find the right mix of types of players. With issues such as RH, LH on defense. Role players, elite players, PK players. Playmakers, shooters, forecheckers etc. and the room takes care of itself. If you prioritize culture, standard and fixing the locker room first. You're just selling a bunch of goods that a gullible Flyers fan base will buy. That's why they hired Tortorella. He is old school and still believes things like culture and fixing the room are what matter the most. On top of all the other issues involved that come with Tortorella. They have a POHO that believes in the same BS. Everyone needs to remember that with the absurd triumvirate that the Flyers installed. No serious outside candidate was willing to take the job without full control. That's how they wound up with Jones. The teams color analyst with zero experience in running a team. If you can't get a serious professional. Might as well hire someone who thinks like you do. Briere was brought up and mentored in a dysfunctional franchise. I see no evidence to this point that he is any different.

The only culture that needs fixing is the deep embedded one inside this franchise. That is what has to change and they have to move into the modern NHL and focus on talent, skill and speed. Stop trying to win now. You can't and doing so only holds the team back. If that doesn't change. Nothing else is going to matter. I said the teams "success" was a mirage and it was only a matter of time until reality surfaces.

I think a large percentage of the fanbase is confused and torn as to whether they want a rebuild or not.

All year, Torts/Danny B/Jonesy have been saying this is a rebuild and they were sellers at the deadline to reinforce that stance.

Now people are mad at them for trading Walker (which was absolutely the right move, especially if this team is years away, which according to the Michkov timeline they are) and yelling about the team missing the playoffs.

I think everyone needs to realize the Flyers playoff push was less about how good of a team they are/were and more about how goddamn awful the Devils, Red Wings, Isles, Pens, and Caps were this year.
- lindros's lung

Fans want the rebuild but they can't stomach the actual process.

We get the team that we deserve.

Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Flyers Crushed by Habs, 9-3
- bmeltzer

This collapse is way too late. If this had happened earlier in the season, rp and seeler would not have been extended, it is possible that tk and laughton would be gone as well.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...

I don't see Frost or Farabee being moved unless it is a good hockey move type deal. I am curious if they revisit moving Sanheim since he had a solid year. I know he has a NTC but would he want to go to a contender?

No matter what this team has a lot of work to do.
- J35Bacher

I would definitely move Sanheim if I could. Points wise he had his best NHL season now is the time. The Flyers need to get out from under his contract. I think Farabee is as good as gone, and with the cap going up his contract is not so much of a hinderance. Frost too. But yes, it would be a hockey trade, not a dump.

The style the Flyers play is the style they HAVE TO PLAY in order to compete, because as we all know the Flyers do not have high end talent. Look in their last 7 games before last night, the Fyers generated 85 High Danger Chances, but only scored 3 goals, that's a 3% conversion rate. This points to the lack of high end talent and thus the ability to finish. It does not in ANY WAY point to the style of play under Tortorella as a problem, in fact it highlights that his way actually WORKS!!
- jd250

tired of hearing about high scoring chances. bottom line is the team just isnt very good. some solid players is all. something every team has.

there is not 1 player on the current roster where you need to say I want to build around him. they have maybe 2 core players tops.

I think a large percentage of the fanbase is confused and torn as to whether they want a rebuild or not.

All year, Torts/Danny B/Jonesy have been saying this is a rebuild and they were sellers at the deadline to reinforce that stance.

Now people are mad at them for trading Walker (which was absolutely the right move, especially if this team is years away, which according to the Michkov timeline they are) and yelling about the team missing the playoffs.

I think everyone needs to realize the Flyers playoff push was less about how good of a team they are/were and more about how goddamn awful the Devils, Red Wings, Isles, Pens, and Caps were this year.
- lindros's lung

I 100% want a rebuild and am on board with them missing the playoffs, i dont like picking outside of the top 10, and if torts is the coach, DB shouldve done more to rid talent to get a better pick. You know torts teams overachieve and will get more points than their talent level