If they are not ready, than the assumed value from the potential of these high 1st round picks is reduced and continues to reduce each season.

Then you have the roster we are looking at and a prospect pool of less impactful players, how do you plan to improve? Linear progression seems to be the path chosen by the front office and hope some of these guys hit.

The cost so far is 3 seasons, 1 where the entire "core" of the NHL roster had career years. The holes remain the same and the prospects in the system do not play the style to fill those roles. Other GM's notice this and just wait out Adams to pick these players up for pennies.
- Theguywiththething

I don't believe that to be true. Perceived value is a lot more complicated than 'well, that guy's not ready yet'. It's about their career projections. (frank), look at tage.

I understand the idea of what I'm arguing against, I really do. At this point the assumption behind these posts is that we now have too many players and the org has their thumbs in their ass with no plan. We're also assuming that this org is the only org that knows our prospects and that no one else has any idea if they're good or bad.

I'm comfortable enough with their competence that they will place these prospects correctly, whether that is into this roster or sold for better pieces that fit here.

I like the idea of sending a player who doesn't do his job well out the door for a top 3 defenseman.

I'm sure other teams are looking to deal a quality defenseman for a player that doesn't do his job well.
- kingcong39

What? Mitts?
You must be confused thinking I was referencing someone else, right?

Mitts producing at 0.86 ppg pace...which translates to 70pts over 82.
Curious, what would be "good" enough to be included in a trade package?

They should use Mitts as trade bait for that Top 4 Dman.
The issue is when. I think the TDL for that target is ultra difficult to pull off...it happens, but it will be difficult...I guess maybe hope Calagary goes in the ditch and wants young forwards, picks and a prospect.
It could help that he is an RFA if he decides to waits for the offseason...but then other teams play the wait for the price to drop game..which would be manifested in Adams having to increase the rest of the assets offered.

I think moving him vs re-signing is the move to make largely due to future Cap implications...he is going to need players on Bridge and ELC's.
- IonSabres

Can I ask, why do we have this impulse to trade Mittelstadt? Anyone following even basic analytics shows how effective he's been since the start of 2023 (give or take). Is it because he's due for a large contract extension?

Does anyone know if Ostlund even plays hockey anymore?

What happened with that one?
- Theguywiththething

Ostlund, Wahlberg and Von Barnekow are some of the leading U22 scorers in the SHL

What? Mitts?
You must be confused thinking I was referencing someone else, right?

Mitts producing at 0.86 ppg pace...which translates to 70pts over 82.
Curious, what would be "good" enough to be included in a trade package?
- IonSabres

It was Taco's comment about using a player who doesn't do his job well to get a top 3 defenseman.

Trading a clunker for cash, essentially.

Does anyone know if Ostlund even plays hockey anymore?

What happened with that one?
- Theguywiththething

He's doing pretty well actually, think he has 6pts in 11gms this year.

What? Mitts?
You must be confused thinking I was referencing someone else, right?

Mitts producing at 0.86 ppg pace...which translates to 70pts over 82.
Curious, what would be "good" enough to be included in a trade package?
- IonSabres

I am very confused by the premise.

It was Taco's comment about using a player who doesn't do his job well to get a top 3 defenseman.

Trading a clunker for cash, essentially.
- kingcong39

lol what

you have interpreted me incorrectly for the second time today. I would never say that while not being satirical.

misinterpreted would have been better usage here.

I don't believe that to be true. Perceived value is a lot more complicated than 'well, that guy's not ready yet'. It's about their career projections. (frank), look at tage.

I understand the idea of what I'm arguing against, I really do. At this point the assumption behind these posts is that we now have too many players and the org has their thumbs in their ass with no plan. We're also assuming that this org is the only org that knows our prospects and that no one else has any idea if they're good or bad.

I'm comfortable enough with their competence that they will place these prospects correctly, whether that is into this roster or sold for better pieces that fit here.
- TheSabresTaco

The value of the prospects shifts over time, more likely down than up. Tage is an anomaly, hoping the others hit that is great, it shouldn't be an organizational plan. Would Tage become Tage if he spent all the development years in the AHL?

A few concerns with the bolded:

- What are these players career projections? The core of the Sabres needs grit and muscle added to it, there is ample skill. These high skill players who all played similar positions in junior now have to take on and play at NHL caliber, roles they never have before.

- When does the team's season projection become a priority over development, what timeline does this approach project to produce results?

Just to be clear, Casey has been an exceptionally good player on this team since the start of 23 (my last post) and if you're going to trade him, the expectation should be a top 3 defenseman.

It's cash for cash, certainly not clunker.

I don't believe that to be true. Perceived value is a lot more complicated than 'well, that guy's not ready yet'. It's about their career projections. (frank), look at tage.

I understand the idea of what I'm arguing against, I really do. At this point the assumption behind these posts is that we now have too many players and the org has their thumbs in their ass with no plan. We're also assuming that this org is the only org that knows our prospects and that no one else has any idea if they're good or bad.

I'm comfortable enough with their competence that they will place these prospects correctly, whether that is into this roster or sold for better pieces that fit here.
- TheSabresTaco

The current management has shown nothing but slow playing everything, while hoping and waiting for decisions to be made for them, instead of being more aggressive and proactive about the roster.

Using the duo of Benson and Savoie as an example, it's OK to use one of the two in a trade for a top 3 defenseman, for example, and have the one of the two traded away end up being the better player long term then the one that is kept.

Nothing wrong with that, as trading away the better player still fulfilled a very important team need, and you still have a good player on top of it.

Fear of trading a player who turns out to be better than another is a key indicator of management paralysis.

He's doing pretty well actually, think he has 6pts in 11gms this year.
- Buff36

What year do they believe he will be ready to make the jump to the AHL, let alone NHL?

Can I ask, why do we have this impulse to trade Mittelstadt? Anyone following even basic analytics shows how effective he's been since the start of 2023 (give or take). Is it because he's due for a large contract extension?
- TheSabresTaco

2 forward looking reasons for me:
- very good trade bait in a package for that Top 4 Dman...which, to me is their biggest position of need.
- Future Cap implications, especially in anticipation they need to acquire that Top 4 Dman.
So, the old addage of you need to give to get. I'd rather have that D fully outfitted with a great Top 4...they are 1 player away from having that.
Also, in anticipation of a couple of these F prospects on ELC's being able to step in and play that 3C adequately early on, and very well down the line.

lol what

you have interpreted me incorrectly for the second time today. I would never say that while not being satirical.

misinterpreted would have been better usage here.
- TheSabresTaco

You wrote the following:

>>> I see what you're saying, I understand what you're getting at, but you either keep a guy who actually does his job well, or you send him out for a top 3 caliber defenseman in the offseason or TDL and expect one of Benson, Kulich, Rosen or Savoie to be ready to positively contribute.

It was Taco's comment about using a player who doesn't do his job well to get a top 3 defenseman.

Trading a clunker for cash, essentially.
- kingcong39

I like watching Cash Cab!

Was wondering if there was sarcasm in there..should have realized it more.

The value of the prospects shifts over time, more likely down than up. Tage is an anomaly, hoping the others hit that is great, it shouldn't be an organizational plan. Would Tage become Tage if he spent all the development years in the AHL?

A few concerns with the bolded:

- What are these players career projections? The core of the Sabres needs grit and muscle added to it, there is ample skill. These high skill players who all played similar positions in junior now have to take on and play at NHL caliber roles they never have before.

- When does the team's season projection become a priority over development, what timeline does this approach project to produce results?
- Theguywiththething

This is a probability assumption that may not even apply to the guys we're talking about. All we've seen from our top guys is positive development. I'd argue they're worth more today than they were at the start of 2022.

Yes tage is an anomaly, I used him as an (extreme) example of what potential can equate to.

The team's projection has already taken precedence over development, which is why Kulich and Johnson are not here right now. I'd like them to fire Olofsson into the sun, trade UPL, swap out Jokijaru and make Okposo a part time player. I don't know how one could argue they're prioritizing development over winning though.

You wrote the following:

>>> I see what you're saying, I understand what you're getting at, but you either keep a guy who actually does his job well, or you send him out for a top 3 caliber defenseman in the offseason or TDL and expect one of Benson, Kulich, Rosen or Savoie to be ready to positively contribute.
- kingcong39

Yes I did. I did not infer or imply that CM is not a good player.

I said to either keep (good player) or use (good player) as a trade chip because you
know the return plus (prospect) is a net positive.

apologies if that was not clear.

This is a probability assumption that may not even apply to the guys we're talking about. All we've seen from our top guys is positive development. I'd argue they're worth more today than they were at the start of 2022.

Yes tage is an anomaly, I used him as an (extreme) example of what potential can equate to.

The team's projection has already taken precedence over development, which is why Kulich and Johnson are not here right now. I'd like them to fire Olofsson into the sun, trade UPL, swap out Jokijaru and make Okposo a part time player. I don't know how one could argue they're prioritizing development over winning though.
- TheSabresTaco

It'd be an interesting argument to see if the Sabres would get 1st round picks for these prospects. I wonder which teams would look into that.

Development is still held at the top as they filled important roles with placeholders. Arguing they help win would be to ignore the last decade.

The current management has shown nothing but slow playing everything, while hoping and waiting for decisions to be made for them, instead of being more aggressive and proactive about the roster.

Using the duo of Benson and Savoie as an example, it's OK to use one of the two in a trade for a top 3 defenseman, for example, and have the one of the two traded away end up being the better player long term then the one that is kept.

Nothing wrong with that, as trading away the better player still fulfilled a very important team need, and you still have a good player on top of it.

Fear of trading a player who turns out to be better than another is a key indicator of management paralysis.
- kingcong39

So I'm guilty of falling in love with some prospects and not wanting to trade them...freely admit to that.

I don't want either of Benson nor Savoie trade as I think they play the exact style of game that is going to be very hard to play against...dog on a bone.

At the same time, I can't wait to see Kulich here and Rosen for that matter.

That said, if there is a Top 3/4 RhD available that plays a suitable style ...then go for it...that to me is their greatest position of need as the young guys coming up have a bigger gap to achieving that as opposed to other F Prospects achieving Mitts production.

>>> Amerks leading scorers through 5 games:

Kulich - 5G, 3A in 5GP
Rosén - 3G, 5A in 5GP
Kisakov - 3G, 2A in 5GP

Extremely early, but it’s nice to see Kisakov producing early #Sabres

https://twitter.com/716Fu...FGvKueQehuP3yRl9FYmw&s=19

So I'm guilty of falling in love with some prospects and not wanting to trade them...freely admit to that.

I don't want either of Benson nor Savoie trade as I think they play the exact style of game that is going to be very hard to play against...dog on a bone.

At the same time, I can't wait to see Kulich here and Rosen for that matter.

That said, if there is a Top 3/4 RhD available that plays a suitable style ...then go for it...that to me is their greatest position of need as the young guys coming up have a bigger gap to achieving that as opposed to other F Prospects achieving Mitts production.
- IonSabres

If Rasmus Andersson is truly somehow available, I wouldn't hesitate to trade any one of the forward prospects in a deal to get him, including Benson.

This is a probability assumption that may not even apply to the guys we're talking about. All we've seen from our top guys is positive development. I'd argue they're worth more today than they were at the start of 2022.

Yes tage is an anomaly, I used him as an (extreme) example of what potential can equate to.

The team's projection has already taken precedence over development, which is why Kulich and Johnson are not here right now. I'd like them to fire Olofsson into the sun, trade UPL, swap out Jokijaru and make Okposo a part time player. I don't know how one could argue they're prioritizing development over winning though.
- TheSabresTaco

100% Agree.
The Sabres have invested the time and energy to develop them very nicely to be "NHL Ready"...very soon...and maybe improved on their expected NHL production in doing so.
That adds value i a trade scenario...acquiring a young plug and play guy on an ELC is extremely valuable.

Now, those who are not matching their expected development curve and have spent multiple years in the AHL doing so...well of course their value drops.

It is far more nuanced than a blanket statement...just like all shots are not of equal value.

It'd be an interesting argument to see if the Sabres would get 1st round picks for these prospects. I wonder which teams would look into that.

Development is still held at the top as they filled important roles with placeholders. Arguing they help win would be to ignore the last decade.
- Theguywiththething

what kinda kills this is that teams rarely if ever make these kinds of trades. ELC players who can contribute aren't worth even trading. 99% of the time, teams always have room to incorporate these guys.

Sabres could be quite the case study. I think they'd try to get a veteran player instead of a pick, at least with one or two of them.

I mean a lot of these guys have 2-4 year projections in the minors so there's no reason to do anything with them. Question really comes down to Kulich, Rosen and Savoie. When are they ready and should they replace anyone here.

I mean next year your wingers are Skinner, Peterka, Greenway on the left, Tuch, Quinn, Benson on the right. It really is a good question on what to do with these guys. It's a question that won't go away any time soon, especially with the positive development of the aforementioned three.

Is it true that PK88 ordered 10 pair of Bauer gloves in blue/gold and Goathead colors? Asking for my neighbor in SB!

53-72-89
77-24-88
71-37-22
12-17-28/21

*Until 71 gets sent to the moon or anywhere else.

100% Agree.
The Sabres have invested the time and energy to develop them very nicely to be "NHL Ready"...very soon...and maybe improved on their expected NHL production in doing so.
That adds value i a trade scenario...acquiring a young plug and play guy on an ELC is extremely valuable.

Now, those who are not matching their expected development curve and have spent multiple years in the AHL doing so...well of course their value drops.

It is far more nuanced than a blanket statement...just like all shots are not of equal value.
- IonSabres

Good post. These are the ideas I've been hit or miss in trying to portray.

I'm not worried about them making decisions when decisions need to be made. I'm not worried about them projecting out their roster down the line. They see what we see and much more.

That doesn't mean the questions won't go away. I think it's clear the three need more professional minutes to develop, Kulich and Rosen showed improvement but clearly not ready yet, and that's ok. Savoie it comes down to strength and games against men. He's more dynamic than Benson but Benson is clearly the better built NHL player in his game. Which is fine by the way.