And yet people who actually know hockey like PA don't have him as first line center on the team.

Never gets called out to take the important draws in fact PA sends out Suter as choice number two.

In Key situatins of defending say a five on three Miller again i the go to guy.
- VANTEL

Is Mcdavid the go to guy on his team for 5 on 3s? What about Mackinnon?

Pettersson is one of the teams best PKers, and he's often on the ice at the end of games. The fact that they can often use Miller and save Petey for playing offence is a luxury, not an indictment of Petey.

Coupled with the fact Petey will score like 40 more points a year, yes.
- NorthNuck

Well then 12 mil it is sign him up now.

Is Mcdavid the go to guy on his team for 5 on 3s? What about Mackinnon?

Pettersson is one of the teams best PKers, and he's often on the ice at the end of games. The fact that they can often use Miller and save Petey for playing offence is a luxury, not an indictment of Petey.
- NorthNuck

Well he must be really rested then because they started using Suter ahead of him too

And yet people who actually know hockey like PA don't have him as first line center on the team.

Never gets called out to take the important draws in fact PA sends out Suter as choice number two.

In Key situatins of defending say a five on three Miller again i the go to guy.
- VANTEL

First off, Allvin doesn't control ice time or who's first and second line, Rick Tocchet does. Secondly, the Canucks have two top lines there's no real #1 and #2, Miller averages 19:43 and Pettersson averages 19:44 in total ice time. They play different games which they're both successful at. Pettersson is also a better penalty killer than Miller, who they've reduced his PK minutes because he was such a liability.

Well he must be really rested then because they started using Suter ahead of him too
- VANTEL

Can you point to any times this actually happened? That Petey was sitting on the bench rested and Suter was chosen for an "important draw"?

Is not debating. It is mocking.

Just for the record.
- VANTEL

I'll speak for myself... I haven't been mocking you at all. There was what I thought was a harmless joke a week ago you got wienerly about and because of that, I've been very careful not to give you reason to think I'm firing shots or mocking. That includes ignoring your sarcasms, shots and the give and go between you and Nighty.

We have a long history of getting along and I respect you. Keep that in mind while we have these discussions.

Can you point to any times this actually happened? That Petey was sitting on the bench rested and Suter was chosen for an "important draw"?
- NorthNuck

I believe I saw the other night on the PP Miller got waved out of the circle and they used Suter instead of Petey.

I believe I saw the other night on the PP Miller got waved out of the circle and they used Suter instead of Petey.
- VANTEL

That's because Petey stays lined up for the quick 1T off a PP draw. It's literally a set play they have used many times this season.

(Stuff like this is why I laugh when I'm told I should watch the games instead of spreadsheets)

I suppose it's similar to the Sedins. All the way through their careers there were folks who didn't understand the way they played and resented them for it. Meanwhile they should have been enjoying having 2 top 100 players of all time on the same team at the same time.

Yeah, Petey is in the 2nd tier of top Centers in the league, but that's only because the top tier only has space for like 4 or 5 guys. Past that top group there aren't any other Cs in the league I'd rather have to be honest
- NorthNuck

The kid is an unbelievable player, even small things like blocked shots when you compare him to Miller (36 Miller 37 EP) or takeaways (22 Miller 30 EP) or giveaways (28 Miller 16 EP).....they're both great players and the organization is lucky to have them both. Even though Miller was a pouty twat for three years.

Unless you appreciate EP40's hockey sense and vision along with his shot, his game just does not wow you. But he's still one of the best centers in the league. When Crosby comes he can move to his wing and we'll win the Cup baby!!

I'll speak for myself... I haven't been mocking you at all. There was what I thought was a harmless joke a week ago you got wienerly about and because of that, I've been very careful not to give you reason to think I'm firing shots or mocking. That includes ignoring your sarcasms, shots and the give and go between you and Nighty.

We have a long history of getting along and I respect you. Keep that in mind while we have these discussions.
- boonerbuck

That comment was not aimed at you. We have been debating for years and no harm, no foul.

The guy from the North first reply was


He has a habit in fact I have seen others on here call him an arrogant pr1ck. That is not a form of debating. No big deal I mostly ignore his posts.

For the record I know when I post something about Petey I can tell in advance you will not be in favor , Neem Lefty and the other guy also and that is fine. No harm in debating.

It may sound like I am against Petey but I am not I just don't believe he is our second line center and I don't believe he is worth 12 mil per.

If he is our center then fine. The team knows our roster better than any of us. I don't mind the debate.

And yet people who actually know hockey like PA don't have him as first line center on the team.

Never gets called out to take the important draws in fact PA sends out Suter as choice number two.

In Key situatins of defending say a five on three Miller again i the go to guy.
- VANTEL

Our management said a couple/few weeks ago he is a top 5 C in the league when he's on his game. His numbers also support that. I posted the Rutherford interview.

You are projecting what management think based on the coaches management on the ice. It's contradicted by the very people you are implying think otherwise.

Our management said a couple/few weeks ago he is a top 5 C in the league when he's on his game. His numbers also support that. I posted the Rutherford interview.

You are projecting what management think based on the coaches management on the ice. It's contradicted by the very people you are implying think otherwise.
- boonerbuck

I am posting how I feel mostly.

So JR says he is a top five center and the top insiders say Canucks are inquiring about Lindholm. Teams leak stuff as you know.

First off, Allvin doesn't control ice time or who's first and second line, Rick Tocchet does. Secondly, the Canucks have two top lines there's no real #1 and #2, Miller averages 19:43 and Pettersson averages 19:44 in total ice time. They play different games which they're both successful at. Pettersson is also a better penalty killer than Miller, who they've reduced his PK minutes because he was such a liability.
- Pacificgem

Miller also gives up the zone on the PP more than anyone on the PP. If possession is half the battle... Miller has his warts as a C as well...

The kid is an unbelievable player, even small things like blocked shots when you compare him to Miller (36 Miller 37 EP) or takeaways (22 Miller 30 EP) or giveaways (28 Miller 16 EP).....they're both great players and the organization is lucky to have them both. Even though Miller was a pouty twat for three years.

Unless you appreciate EP40's hockey sense and vision along with his shot, his game just does not wow you. But he's still one of the best centers in the league. When Crosby comes he can move to his wing and we'll win the Cup baby!!
- Pacificgem

Petey was also 2nd in the league among forwards for blocked shots last year, only 3 behind Matthews

Miller also gives up the zone on the PP more than anyone on the PP. If possession is half the battle... Miller has his warts as a C as well...
- boonerbuck

Agreed. But he does it as 8 Mil center. If Petey signs for 8 mil then lets crack the champagne. We will live with the warts.

That comment was not aimed at you. We have been debating for years and no harm, no foul.

The guy from the North first reply was


He has a habit in fact I have seen others on here call him an arrogant pr1ck. That is not a form of debating. No big deal I mostly ignore his posts.

For the record I know when I post something about Petey I can tell in advance you will not be in favor , Neem Lefty and the other guy also and that is fine. No harm in debating.

It may sound like I am against Petey but I am not I just don't believe he is our second line center and I don't believe he is worth 12 mil per.

If he is our center then fine. The team knows our roster better than any of us. I don't mind the debate.
- VANTEL

You and Marwood are the only ones who ever do anything like this.

Have I not debated you on this with complete respect, despite my initial reaction?

For the record Rossi is a Judd Bracket pick

You and Marwood are the only ones who ever do anything like this.

Have I not debated you on this with complete respect?
- NorthNuck

If you want to debate then do so. I can keep the debate civil.

The proposal I made we will go into detail.

Last week Minivan suggested try to get a player better than Joshua if we are paying in the him 3 mil to return as one person suggested. He even threw the name out like a Foligno. I agree Foligno is a better option and is under contract for three more years.

Rossi has almost exact numbers as Petey's first year and has one more year of ELC. He should hit around sixty points this year.

E EK should land around 70 points this year and has six more years at five and a quarter mil. All three players come around 10 mil and fill spots for years and years.

I understand some people really like Petey but I would jump at that deal because it also gives you flexibility and term.

I am posting how I feel mostly.

So JR says he is a top five center and the top insiders say Canucks are inquiring about Lindholm. Teams leak stuff as you know.
- VANTEL

I don't know why you only see that as them thinking Petey is not a 1/2 C only. Maybe they think they can elevate Lindholm and continue to get 100 points out of Petey giving them options. Maybe they want to be super strong down the middle and he ends up being part of a 1/2/3 punch. Maybe they are not trying as hard to get him as you think and they are looking at landing Guentzel who you have guaranteed is a Canuck and seriously complicates an acquisition of Lindholm.

Insiders vs management says... sorry but I put more stock in their assessment of Petey over insider speculation about trades as some kind of contradiction.

Agreed. But he does it as 8 Mil center. If Petey signs for 8 mil then lets crack the champagne. We will live with the warts.
- VANTEL

There's no "if 8mil". His qualifier is over 8.5m.

I don't know why you only see that as them thinking Petey is not a 1/2 C only. Maybe they think they can elevate Lindholm and continue to get 100 points out of Petey giving them options. Maybe they want to be super strong down the middle and he ends up being part of a 1/2/3 punch. Maybe they are not trying as hard to get him as you think and they are looking at landing Guentzel who you have guaranteed is a Canuck and seriously complicates an acquisition of Lindholm.

Insiders vs management says... sorry but I put more stock in their assessment of Petey over insider speculation about trades as some kind of contradiction.
- boonerbuck

I think they are looking at strong down the middle also. That is why I suggested Miller EK Rossi Suter.

I did mention the term Money Ball yesterday. I try to keep in mind they could have had Miller Bo and Petey as 1 2 3 as Bruce B once said that would be a heck of a 1 2 3.

Bo priced himself out so I don't see Canucks going to 12 mil and limiting the rest of the line up.

If you want to debate then do so. I can keep the debate civil.

The proposal I made we will go into detail.

Last week Minivan suggested try to get a player better than Joshua if we are paying in the him 3 mil to return as one person suggested. He even threw the name out like a Foligno. I agree Foligno is a better option and is under contract for three more years.

Rossi has almost exact numbers as Petey's first year and has one more year of ELC. He should hit around sixty points this year.

E EK should land around 70 points this year and has six more years at five and a quarter mil. All three players come around 10 mil and fill spots for years and years.

I understand some people really like Petey but I would jump at that deal because it also gives you flexibility and term.
- VANTEL

But even if Rossi turned out to be a point producer on the level Petey is (very much remains to be seen), would he not just end up costing a similar price then?

You're talking about giving up Lekkerimaki as well right when the Canucks will need wingers, they are already light on that front with the russians underperforming and guys like Joshua potentially pricing themselves out of Van.

I just don't see any way that your proposed deal is not a significant downgrade other than a year or 2 of minor cap flexibility. To me cap flexibility is not worth losing an elite player of Petey's caliber. With Miller, Demko, and Hughes cost controlled, and the cap going up, there really isn't an issue with backing the truck up for Petey.

Agreed. But he does it as 8 Mil center. If Petey signs for 8 mil then lets crack the champagne. We will live with the warts.
- VANTEL

What warts? He literally doesn't have any major weaknesses in his game. He's probably the only player on the roster you can say that about, aside from Demko obviously.

What warts? He literally doesn't have any major weaknesses in his game. He's probably the only player on the roster you can say that about, aside from Demko obviously.
- NorthNuck

I think he has some flaws. His strengths outweigh his weaknesses but he does have flaws. Obviously others on here feel he has weaknesses too. Don't get Nightie going on this. People on here call him pouty.

I respect the posters that love him and I understand and respect those that have issues with him.

He is a great player IMO but only a good center IMO.

I think he has some flaws. His strengths outweigh his weaknesses but he does have flaws. Obviously others on here feel he has weaknesses too. Don't get Nightie going on this. People on here call him pouty.

I respect the posters that love him and I understand and respect those that have issues with him.

He is a great player IMO but only a good center IMO.
- VANTEL

What are his weaknesses?