Ah, I knew Petry's did but thought Granlund was done after this year. Neuters my arguement a little bit. I thought Rutta was good in his role and he has done a pretty fine job playing second pair minutes for San Jose.

Trust me, I didn't specifically want Granlund and was majorly opposed to the trade when it happened, but he likely would have been our 3C and I can't imagine he would be doing worse than Smith has so far for an equal cap hit.

So its:
Karlsson
Smith
Graves
Ned

vs

Petry
Granlund
Rutta
Desmith
1st rounder
A bunch of cap space.

Going into the season, I would have said we did ok there, but in retrospect with how bad Graves and Smith have been, we would have been better off staying put. At least we would be looking at shorter contracts, more cap space and a 1st rounder still. I still think Graves can turn it around and be a good addition.

Hopefully the Pens can get a win streak going and figure out what is happening with Jake in the next few weeks. Won't be surprised to see a big shakeup coming in the meantime.
- MacPatty

At 5-on-5 Granlund has 3 goals and 10 assists this year. Smith has 7 and 7.

At 5-on-5 Granlund has 3 goals and 10 assists this year. Smith has 7 and 7.
- MickV

Petry as 14 points and lives in his own zone. EK has 35 lol

Petry as 14 points and lives in his own zone. EK has 35 lol
- j.boyd919

35! Maybe the pens should figure out a way to add salary to EK.

I don’t think Jake’s going to give them that option. I think Jake’s departure could spark a change in culture that is desperately needed.
- Grinder47

I don't disagree about Jake probably not giving them the option to stay or that they could use a culture change. I just disagree if you're saying Jake is the problem. The top line is fantastic. It's most everywhere else that they have problems.

Ah, I knew Petry's did but thought Granlund was done after this year. Neuters my arguement a little bit. I thought Rutta was good in his role and he has done a pretty fine job playing second pair minutes for San Jose.

Trust me, I didn't specifically want Granlund and was majorly opposed to the trade when it happened, but he likely would have been our 3C and I can't imagine he would be doing worse than Smith has so far for an equal cap hit.

So its:
Karlsson
Smith
Graves
Ned

vs

Petry
Granlund
Rutta
Desmith
1st rounder
A bunch of cap space.

Going into the season, I would have said we did ok there, but in retrospect with how bad Graves and Smith have been, we would have been better off staying put. At least we would be looking at shorter contracts, more cap space and a 1st rounder still. I still think Graves can turn it around and be a good addition.

Hopefully the Pens can get a win streak going and figure out what is happening with Jake in the next few weeks. Won't be surprised to see a big shakeup coming in the meantime.
- MacPatty

The problem is you want to lump in the UFA signings with the trade. It's more like.

Pens get: Karlsson, 3M cap space, 3rd rounder

Pens lose: Granlund, Petry, DeSmith, Ruuta, 1st, 2nd

The trade put them in good position. People throw around 10M, but they got 3M or roughly what Eller got paid. DeSmith and Ruuta:s replacements were on the roster.

Karlsson, Eller, Ned, Ruhwedel or
Petry, Granlund, DeSmith, Ruuta?

I'm still taking the first group. Will lose eventually on draft picks, but I think the team is better.

Now if you want to argue spending the rest of their cap space they had with or without this trade on Smith, Graves, Accairi was bad, not going to argue with you.

Petry as 14 points and lives in his own zone. EK has 35 lol
- j.boyd919

I think you are missing the point on many levels.

1. Karlsson has double the cap hit.
2. EK starts +60% of the time in the offensive zone. Petry starts +60% of the time in the defensive zone... Of course he spends more time there.
3. Not a debate of whether Karlsson is better than Petry, obviously he is. It's a question of whether the entire series of deals in the off-season left the Pens in better or worse position. You can get a great player and still not end up a better team when all is said and done.

The problem is you want to lump in the UFA signings with the trade. It's more like.

Pens get: Karlsson, 3M cap space, 3rd rounder

Pens lose: Granlund, Petry, DeSmith, Ruuta, 1st, 2nd

The trade put them in good position. People throw around 10M, but they got 3M or roughly what Eller got paid. DeSmith and Ruuta:s replacements were on the roster.

Karlsson, Eller, Ned, Ruhwedel or
Petry, Granlund, DeSmith, Ruuta?

I'm still taking the first group. Will lose eventually on draft picks, but I think the team is better.

Now if you want to argue spending the rest of their cap space they had with or without this trade on Smith, Graves, Accairi was bad, not going to argue with you.
- Tojo.

I hear you but the Pens don't trade for Smith if they still have Granlund and they likely don't sign Graves if they still have Ruuta. Guys like Eller and Accari in the bottom half of the lineup happen regardless of those other moves.

I think you are missing the point on many levels.

1. Karlsson has double the cap hit.
2. EK starts +60% of the time in the offensive zone. Petry starts +60% of the time in the defensive zone... Of course he spends more time there.
3. Not a debate of whether Karlsson is better than Petry, obviously he is. It's a question of whether the entire series of deals in the off-season left the Pens in better or worse position. You can get a great player and still not end up a better team when all is said and done.
- MacPatty

No. I’m not missing the point.

I hear you but the Pens don't trade for Smith if they still have Granlund and they likely don't sign Graves if they still have Ruuta. Guys like Eller and Accari in the bottom half of the lineup happen regardless of those other moves.
- MacPatty

Smith replaced Zucker and Graves replaced Dumoulin. Pretty similar total cap hits. Wasn't really affected by the EK trade. I do think Eller was more connected because he replaced Granlund at 3C.

Accairi I agree happens either way, but so do Smith and Graves.

I hate the draws blood double minor rule. You can try and kill somebody and get 2 mins, but if there's a scratch it's 4 mins. Just get rid of that.

I hate the draws blood double minor rule. You can try and kill somebody and get 2 mins, but if there's a scratch it's 4 mins. Just get rid of that.
- MickV

If you're talking about high sticking, the ref has to call it.

60.3 Double-minor Penalty - When a player carries or holds any part of his stick above the shoulders and makes contact with his opponent’s neck, face or head so that injury results, in the manner of drawing blood or otherwise, the Referee shall assess a double-minor penalty.

I agree they should penalize based on intent instead of result, but that's how it's spelled out.

If you're talking about high sticking, the ref has to call it.

60.3 Double-minor Penalty - When a player carries or holds any part of his stick above the shoulders and makes contact with his opponent’s neck, face or head so that injury results, in the manner of drawing blood or otherwise, the Referee shall assess a double-minor penalty.

I agree they should penalize based on intent instead of result, but that's how it's spelled out.
- jmatchett383

Yeah, I know the rule. I'm saying they should change the rule.

The lack of movement on the Pp is just ridiculous The wild are just standing there.

That's the Geno we need right there...

That's the Geno we need right there...
- MattStrat

Yeah that was a sick pass.

I don't disagree about Jake probably not giving them the option to stay or that they could use a culture change. I just disagree if you're saying Jake is the problem. The top line is fantastic. It's most everywhere else that they have problems.
- Tojo.

Not once did I say Jake is a problem anywhere.

MAF!

I knew they weren't gonna win that game since I knew it would be MAFs 1000th game haha. He played unreal...and I was happy for him that he got the W. Really lightened the loss. Back to business tonight vs a Jets team that'll want revenge.

I took Grinders comments to mean if you trade Guentzel it is a big shake up trade to a locker room which is pretty content because none of the big names have ever been moved. Which may light a fire with the shake up and potentially provide someone with a different skill set which may also work for this team.

I personally think Guentzel gets traded. I have been back and forth on a resign in my head. I think Guentzel would start a bidding war if available and I believe it would definitely help us retool a bit. I think the ultimate dream is a trade at the deadline with us getting a bunch back then a wink wink nudge nudge deal to send Guentzel for a cup contender, but we will offer you a contract to sign back with us in the offseason and have some more pieces to build a better team

I knew they weren't gonna win that game since I knew it would be MAFs 1000th game haha. He played unreal...and I was happy for him that he got the W. Really lightened the loss. Back to business tonight vs a Jets team that'll want revenge.
- MattStrat

The hockey gods weren't going to let MAF lose that one, but it would've been nice to get a point, maybe have him beat us in a shootout.