I guess that's the big quandry then, if guys are thought to be leaders and aren't, how are you going to identify one to bring in?

Eric Johnson won a cup in a leadership position, so it worked for the Avs. Why do these guys go from tigers to kittens on our team? Also, the guys you mentioned were all HOF level players...which we likely don't have and aren't up for sale on other teams either. IF that's what's needed, aren't we just completely fooked?
- QuinnFan

High quality and HoF players get traded.

If the Org is serious about winning, which I seriously question, then go get the guy that has the will to win at all costs.

This Org hasn't had alot of them...and think about this...the ones that were of that breed..well they chased them out of the organization
-Peca
-Drury
-Briere
-ROR
It is pathetic.
Is it a coincidence that they have never won a SC in 53 seasons?

They have the assets to overpay and find that guy..they don't have the skills to do so.
That is their limitation.

Just off the cuff, you're looking at what, 23 million there? I mean I still think greenway brings value but the rest of that can be replaced with 10 million.
- TheSabresTaco

Yeah that seems about right. That’s crazy.

Out of curiosity, if you could sign one guy of these two options which would you:

1) High energy, defensively sound, physical player but a church mouse in the locker room
2) Great leader, brings experience and SC winning pedigree but not physically imposing or great at any particular aspect of the game

Both are 25pt players on average, so bottom6 guys.
- QuinnFan

player 1

Add in the coaches and GM's hes still paying

- DirtyDan

Who would still be on the books gm and coach wise?

Ralph ….. housley?

So it IS factual to say a good leader must be a high quality player? If this is the case, why not just sign good players and let them lead by an example? Seems as though this is much more important than some invisible trait we're calling leadership.

Edit: And while winning a cup doesn't make you a good leader, winning a cup with the C on your chest means it did work...for whatever reason. And it didn't work here.
- QuinnFan

I think Mcdavid is a “poor” leader but amazing player. So there is that.

But generally speaking are players listening to or following a high skilled player that produces or on the other end. Do they follow the Matt Ellis’s of the world?

I think the high end player.

I guess my issue is that they have a ton of respect for these guys and it doesn't seem to affect anything. I've never thought Kyle was a lazy player, he just took too many hits to the head and it slowed him down a ton. Kyle has had players stay at his house, has been the voice during events like the honoring of those killed during the Topps massacre...he's been a great teammate all things considered...it just hasn't helped it seems. It's either that or the impact of a great leader isn't substantial enough to value in this way.

I don't know which, but there's chinks in the "leadership" armor somewhere.
- QuinnFan

He is a great leader, but it doesn't mean he has a great impact on wins. But I guess it comes down to you, average fan, how do you describe a leader? It's subjective and different from fan to fan. Players have a more refined view of it.

I think Mcdavid is a “poor” leader but amazing player. So there is that.

But generally speaking are players listening to or following a high skilled player that produces or on the other end. Do they follow the Matt Ellis’s of the world?

I think the high end player.
- Sabretooth9

McDavid is not a "poor" leader.

The best leaders, lead by example. Talk is cheap.

McDavid is not a "poor" leader.

The best leaders, lead by example. Talk is cheap.
- DirtyDan

See Kyle Okposo.

I guess my issue is that they have a ton of respect for these guys and it doesn't seem to affect anything. I've never thought Kyle was a lazy player, he just took too many hits to the head and it slowed him down a ton. Kyle has had players stay at his house, has been the voice during events like the honoring of those killed during the Topps massacre...he's been a great teammate all things considered...it just hasn't helped it seems. It's either that or the impact of a great leader isn't substantial enough to value in this way.

I don't know which, but there's chinks in the "leadership" armor somewhere.
- QuinnFan

You are describing a friend and a caring individual.
Leadership, challenging others to be better, holding players accountable (practice habits, intensity, playing smart, not cheating the system, playing your role, etc), playing your best always, living the message from the Coach, playing for the crest...those are a few. Being a complete wiener when needed, being compassionate when deserved are also involved. Not easy to encompass most of it.

Ya, they are far and few between.
I don't trust Kevin to be able to define it nor the FO to be able to spot it.

Are we doomed? Until they have someone at the top and is surrounded by competence...yes, I believe the org is.

That said, Go Sabres.

You are describing a friend and a caring individual.
Leadership, challenging others to be better, holding players accountable (practice habits, intensity, playing smart, not cheating the system, playing your role, etc), playing your best always, living the message from the Coach, playing for the crest...those are a few. Being a complete wiener when needed, being compassionate when deserved are also involved. Not easy to encompass most of it.

Ya, they are far and few between.
I don't trust Kevin to be able to define it nor the FO to be able to spot it.

Are we doomed? Until they have someone at the top and is surrounded by competence...yes, I believe the org is.

That said, Go Sabres.
- IonSabres

I think Kev has done some great things in his tenure. And some not so great.

He had a lead scout crying at the draft as to how much hes meant to the scouting department and the FO.

The problem is when it comes to GM'ing he doesn't have it. Promote him to Pres. of Hockey Ops. I think it'd be a fitting position for him.And then get yourself a real GM to speed this thing up properly.

Kopitar -6 last night vs the Sabres

Ouch


Sabres 6-0 with Jacob Bryson in the line up this season

See Kyle Okposo.
- DirtyDan

Kopitar -6 last night vs the Sabres

Ouch


Sabres 6-0 with Jacob Bryson in the line up this season
- Boss34

What were they with samuelsson in last year? And then vs this year...

That stat means nothing. Bryson's poope

I think Kev has done some great things in his tenure. And some not so great.

He had a lead scout crying at the draft as to how much hes meant to the scouting department and the FO.

The problem is when it comes to GM'ing he doesn't have it. Promote him to Pres. of Hockey Ops. I think it'd be a fitting position for him.And then get yourself a real GM to speed this thing up properly.
- DirtyDan

You don't have a pres of hockey ops today. Most teams don't. If you hire a better GM, why do you need one tomorrow?

McDavid is not a "poor" leader.

The best leaders, lead by example. Talk is cheap.
- DirtyDan

A “leader’s” words are cheap and hollow without actually setting the example to be followed. Without walking the walk, the “leader’s” talk will just cause you to be seen as a hypocrite. A guy like Hornqvist is(was) a leader, far from the best player on the team but he helped set the tone in FL of maximum preparation and full on effort and total accountability amongst your teammates. Someone earlier used the phrase, “a guy who will drag the team into the fight...”

What were they with samuelsson in last year? And then vs this year...

That stat means nothing. Bryson's poope
- DirtyDan

Think people were serious about it last year with Samuelsson. Can't imagine anyone isn't joking around with Bryson.

You don't have a pres of hockey ops today. Most teams don't. If you hire a better GM, why do you need one tomorrow?
- Lunaion

Pretty solid job overseeing the franchise/turning it back around. Keep Pegula out of the building. Has Pegula's ear/trust obviously. Keep everyone on the same page.

Think people were serious about it last year with Samuelsson. Can't imagine anyone isn't joking around with Bryson.
- Lunaion

Kid almost got as many pts last night as he did in his 10 games in the A.

If they keep Granato for the coming future. Which I assume they will. They better be serious about either letting him pick his staff or getting him some quality assistants.

This Matt Ellis PP coach bs needs to stop.

Pretty solid job overseeing the franchise/turning it back around. Keep Pegula out of the building. Has Pegula's ear/trust obviously. Keep everyone on the same page.
- DirtyDan

So it's more of an honorary position than a job?

If they keep Granato for the coming future. Which I assume they will. They better be serious about either letting him pick his staff or getting him some quality assistants.

This Matt Ellis PP coach bs needs to stop.
- DirtyDan

My sauce leaked an inspiration poster Matt Ellis gave to the PP guys before one of the games this year...pretty inspiring if you ask me.

So it's more of an honorary position than a job?
- Lunaion

Im just saying the position would suit him better.

I could not care less if hes in the FO. Clearly Pegula needs trust, as some here have said. KA has his trust. Just elevate him as your trusty man and get a real GM.

If they keep Granato for the coming future. Which I assume they will. They better be serious about either letting him pick his staff or getting him some quality assistants.

This Matt Ellis PP coach bs needs to stop.
- DirtyDan

I'd bet Donnie fought to keep his assistants last summer and won.

What were they with samuelsson in last year? And then vs this year...

That stat means nothing. Bryson's poope
- DirtyDan

Sabres played their best game of the season without power and samuelsson

Probably just coincidence

Those 2 guys suck at playing the defense

High quality and HoF players get traded.

If the Org is serious about winning, which I seriously question, then go get the guy that has the will to win at all costs.

This Org hasn't had alot of them...and think about this...the ones that were of that breed..well they chased them out of the organization
-Peca
-Drury
-Briere
-ROR
It is pathetic.
Is it a coincidence that they have never won a SC in 53 seasons?

They have the assets to overpay and find that guy..they don't have the skills to do so.
That is their limitation.
- IonSabres

Hasek