I don't believe Torts is required to be accountable to the media or fans. But, it seems like he and Coots have not talked (as of yesterday - according to the agent). I believe Torts likes the player to come to him. He's your captain. Been here a long time. Give the player the courtesy of a quick conversation before it happens. Torts wouldn't treat one of his precious shelter animals this way.
- cdearth23

My understanding is Torts and Couts have talked about the current situation.

I am a life long loyal Flyers fan. I’ll always be a Flyers fan, but I gave up on the idea that the Flyers would build a Cup contender in any intelligent fashion a long time ago. I have accepted that the best I can hope for is entertainment. As entertainment I can appreciate Tortorella. The team has been entertaining and Tortorella can always be counted on the do something ridiculous. It’s a fun time. As far as the reactions of a lot of fans (see Twitter) I think there are a lot of people who really just enjoy the idea of punishment. They love seeing someone get punished. I don’t know if it stems from having been punished as a child, so it’s confused/intertwined with feelings of love, or if it’s just because they are mean spirited, but a lot of people do love when a daddy figure gives a spanking and sends someone to bed with no supper. To top it off the coach throws in a “because I said so” to the media and stomped off for a scotch in the den. That no doubt got a lot of folks off.
- Dkos

i don't necessarily think folks are getting off on the punishment as much as it that in the past decade no one ever got scratched like this before - at least not the high priced big name players. and it was wake up, get steamrolled, go to bed, wake up and do it all over again. definition of insanity.

Mike Richards and Lavi did not get along. Say what you want about mike richards the player, but behind the scenes he was a Richard. disrespected Lavi regularly. it was embarrassing. I think a lot of people are sick of players waiting out coaches, playing chicken until they get fired. it puts the player above the team in those instances.

will Tort's shenanigans work? I don't know but what I do know is I'd rather have this now than relive the past decade of letting players "play through it" and accomplishing nothing in the process.

Interesting takes from Ryan Callahan and Jody Shelley. They both played for Torts and said basically what I said the other day (patting myself on the back here). They basically said that Torts wants his Captain to march into his office and have it out with him. This is obviously similar to Frost. Coots went to the media and whined. That may be why he is still out of the lineup. Buck up butter cup! Go give Torts a piece of your mind! You're the Captain...act like it!!!! Little take from the movie Rudy. Thanks!
- Phillywhiteout

Context in order: Couturier has never -- once -- publicly complained about anything or made excuses in 13 years. Never threw a coach under the bus. Never complained about ice time when he was moved to the 4th line (which, BTW, makes it damn hard to do much offensively).

He actually HAD started to play better in 3 of his last four games, especially the win in Florida. Never said a word when Tortorella did the constant digs, damn with the faintest praise thing he does.... even though Tortorella unquestionably burned the candle at both ends on Couturier for his first 40 games this season, understanding the risk of hitting the wall in the second half but deciding there was no other choice.

Couturier didn't run the media. Like a man, he didn't duck when asked to speak. He allowed himself a minute of frustration and then turned the rest of what he said to pledging to keep working and not rocking the boat. He answered everything honestly, including that the HC hadn't told him anymore than the generic "needs to be better" stuff he told the media.

Yes, I know Tortorella loves confrontation. Yes. I know he will dig and prod and instigate until the player takes the reigns to initiate the actual discussion about EXACTLY what is wanted.

Every coach has his own methods. These are Tortorella's, like it or not.

Interesting takes from Ryan Callahan and Jody Shelley. They both played for Torts and said basically what I said the other day (patting myself on the back here). They basically said that Torts wants his Captain to march into his office and have it out with him. This is obviously similar to Frost. Coots went to the media and whined. That may be why he is still out of the lineup. Buck up butter cup! Go give Torts a piece of your mind! You're the Captain...act like it!!!! Little take from the movie Rudy. Thanks!
- Phillywhiteout

Torts said something similar about York, that last year he tried to pick a fight with him, but York would have none of it. Torts says York still does not talk to him much, but he respects that because the way York has embraced coaching and demonstrated his willingness to block shots and buy into the system.

I see this phrase and I always wondering what people are talking about. So you need Couturier to start scrums and chirp?


Everything I have seen from Couturier since he was drafted has always led me to think he was a future captain.

I think this "see a fire" thing is overblown and really just something fans like.
- J35Bacher

He did have a fight in a game shortly before he was benched. I do wonder why players don’t just give Tortorella what he wants and confront him. It’s got to be better than just eating his poop and stewing.

There is no doubt Couts is working hard and trying to improve. However, there appears to be a gap between how Couts is assessing his own game right now and how Torts and his staff are assessing Cout's game, and this gap seems to be the reason Couts is sitting.
- jd250

That's fine. Then make it clear. Because from Couturier's comments and not hearing anything from Torts it seems that something is not clear.

You scratch your captain and a player who has the reputation of Couturier I think you be a little more out there with what your looking for. It could be a simple as coach speak. Need more offense, need more pace in his game, need him to be more assertive.

By not talking, he makes it worse.

I would sit Johnson, he looks cooked to me. I like the way Ginning and Attard have played together so far.
- jd250

This would be the logical move IMO - he does look cooked.

Not sure why Couturier would need to do any of that. He has done everything for this franchise they have asked since being drafted. Not every captain is the same and to make one act differently would be stupid and take away from those things that made you think he was your captain in the first place.
- J35Bacher

i'll tell you what, I was shocked that a crusty old pro was so quick to dog whistle to the media to save him. i personally don't think any captain should do that after 1 single scratching. maybe if it continued to escalate but I didn't think Coots would do that and I lost a tiny amount of respect for him for that.

go to the coach with those feelings, why make it more of a circus by trying to get everyone to feel sorry for you? It sucks that Coots was frustrated with his "treatment" but as a fan I'm frustrated with his recent numbers. No one is making Sean accountable for his recent play, they blame Torts for his usage. Are you happy with 0 goals and -14 in the last 15 games when you're clawing for a playoff spot? I'm not.

My understanding is Torts and Couts have talked about the current situation.
- jd250

From what I understand, they generically talked. The assistants have pulled together video to.go through specifics with Sean. Tortorella is available if Couturier wants to advocate for himself and push back a bit in a one-on-one conversation. But the player has to initiate that.
Sanheim and Frost both did that after getting constantly nitpicking and singled out. York, last year, absolutely refused to take the bait and Tortorella eventually came around this season regardless.

So there's not only one way to get to a better place.

i'll tell you what, I was shocked that a crusty old pro was so quick to dog whistle to the media to save him. i personally don't think any captain should do that after 1 single scratching. maybe if it continued to escalate but I didn't think Coots would do that and I lost a tiny amount of respect for him for that.

go to the coach with those feelings, why make it more of a circus by trying to get everyone to feel sorry for you? It sucks that Coots was frustrated with his "treatment" but as a fan I'm frustrated with his recent numbers. No one is making Sean accountable for his recent play, they blame Torts for his usage. Are you happy with 0 goals and -14 in the last 15 games when you're clawing for a playoff spot? I'm not.
- anti-lame

Thank you. The player has sucked. End of story

He did have a fight in a game shortly before he was benched. I do wonder why players don’t just give Tortorella what he wants and confront him. It’s got to be better than just eating his poop and stewing.
- Dkos

i'll tell you what, I was shocked that a crusty old pro was so quick to dog whistle to the media to save him. i personally don't think any captain should do that after 1 single scratching. maybe if it continued to escalate but I didn't think Coots would do that and I lost a tiny amount of respect for him for that.

go to the coach with those feelings, why make it more of a circus by trying to get everyone to feel sorry for you? It sucks that Coots was frustrated with his "treatment" but as a fan I'm frustrated with his recent numbers. No one is making Sean accountable for his recent play, they blame Torts for his usage. Are you happy with 0 goals and -14 in the last 15 games when you're clawing for a playoff spot? I'm not.
- anti-lame

I’m sure many will reach for an argument or invite you completely but this is pretty well put. The coach isn’t a beer buddy. He’s the boss.

I see this phrase and I always wondering what people are talking about. So you need Couturier to start scrums and chirp?


Everything I have seen from Couturier since he was drafted has always led me to think he was a future captain.

I think this "see a fire" thing is overblown and really just something fans like.
- J35Bacher

No, that's not Coots' style. Comes back to what I said. Torts would like to be confronted, but I don't think that is really Coots' style either. And again, I'm not saying it's wrong or right, but it's Torts' MO, and Shelley and Callahan didn't seem to have a problem with it.

https://twitter.com/TheFl...tatus/1771224371958284493

In case anyone wonders where the rest of the fanbase stands on Torts and the Flyers. Interesting stuff.
- MBFlyerfan

Ha ha, don't go over to the Flyers fan FB page. They just love Torts. I criticized his OT strategy last night and they will defend him at all costs (although there was some push back on my side of the ledger too).

Ha ha, don't go over to the Flyers fan FB page. They just love Torts. I criticized his OT strategy last night and they will defend him at all costs (although there was some push back on my side of the ledger too).
- Phillywhiteout

I will not defend that OT lineup. Tippett could blow by everyone on the ice in a 3 in 3. Put him out there.

i don't necessarily think folks are getting off on the punishment as much as it that in the past decade no one ever got scratched like this before - at least not the high priced big name players. and it was wake up, get steamrolled, go to bed, wake up and do it all over again. definition of insanity.

Mike Richards and Lavi did not get along. Say what you want about mike richards the player, but behind the scenes he was a Richard. disrespected Lavi regularly. it was embarrassing. I think a lot of people are sick of players waiting out coaches, playing chicken until they get fired. it puts the player above the team in those instances.

will Tort's shenanigans work? I don't know but what I do know is I'd rather have this now than relive the past decade of letting players "play through it" and accomplishing nothing in the process.
- anti-lame

Other teams seem to manage to build and manage better teams without all the shenanigans. I thought Richards was a richard on the ice and off. Probably what made him such a good player. This is pro sports. It’s about the players. The players are above the coach and the team.

- StepfordSam

AI can make some scary poop

Couldn't you just ask your Dad?
- Flyfly

I will not defend that OT lineup. Tippett could blow by everyone on the ice in a 3 in 3. Put him out there.
- anti-lame

Yep, officially the fastest skater in the league according to NHL Edge. Clocked at 24.51 MPH!! Let your horses run!!

Other teams seem to manage to build and manage better teams without all the shenanigans. I thought Richards was a richard on the ice and off. Probably what made him such a good player. This is pro sports. It’s about the players. The players are above the coach and the team.
- Dkos

I am kind of amazed at how people worship at the alter of Torts.

Your right. Other teams seem to do just fine without the extra stuff.

AI can make some scary poop
- Tomahawk

Nah, Torts would insist on a haircut.

Other teams seem to manage to build and manage better teams without all the shenanigans. I thought Richards was a sick on the ice and off. Probably what made him such a good player. This is pro sports. It’s about the players. The players are above the coach and the team.
- Dkos

while I agree, the Flyers as an org, decided to put Torts in the spotlight and the face of the franchise. Something I always found a little odd. I do think Torts has a lot of power as part of the Triumvirate. Dan Hilferty once said Torts is the "spiritual leader" of the organization - for better or worse they went all in on Torts.

I get why Couts was benched. The shenanigans is what gets gets me. Something we just have to live with during this "rebuild."

At this point it is what it is - hopefully the issues are resolved. IMO, Torts only has so many magical bullets and he spent a big one.

Nah, Torts would insist on a haircut.
- bmeltzer

Bill, do you have any insight into what the players reaction to all of this is? I have to think if you keep going after certain players on the roster the players talk and have opinions.

while I agree, the Flyers as an org, decided to put Torts in the spotlight and the face of the franchise. Something I always found a little odd. I do think Torts has a lot of power as part of the Triumvirate. Dan Hilferty once said Torts is the "spiritual leader" of the organization - for better or worse they went all in on Torts.

I get why Couts was benched. The shenanigans is what gets gets me. Something we just have to live with during this "rebuild."

At this point it is what it is - hopefully the issues are resolved. IMO, Torts only has so many magical bullets and he spent a big one.
- Flyfly

The thing is I think you could see a little regression next year. So do the magic bullets work again? My feelings is this is more about the large picture, not just this couple of months.

Nah, Torts would insist on a haircut.
- bmeltzer

Haha still can't believe he made Allison cut off his flow and then banished him to the AHL