It's not good to ignore the fancies but on a roster devoid of talent like the Hawks' what can be expected from pure rookie Dmen paired with some who are fringe 7th-8th NHL Dmen and a group of forwards that won't be with the club when the rebuild goes into win phase?

IMO it's safe to look away from most fancies including this one with this roster. ....... I promise the Hawks have tons and tons of internal fancies that the public will never see.

As fans of the Hawks we're gonna have to count on the eye test for a few yrs of the rebuild until the roster improves.
- Mr Ricochet

Why? It's simply another piece of information to help provide a full picture. No one uses fancies alone to judge a player (or if they do they are mindless). It's not shameful to point out there are notable deficiencies with some of these players. There should be. They're brand new.

Ignoring information because we don't think it matters is just shortsighted. Regardless of the rest of the roster, if zone exits, or shot shares are consistently a deficiency for one player, but not another, that's useful information, and you something you can actually track. I'm not asking KK to be like Vlasic, but if 72 consistently grades out better than KK across a number of metrics that's something that can at least be evaluated and discussed.

How, if you have signed an NHL contract, can you stay in Juniors?
Edit: The contract starts next year.

Why? It's simply another piece of information to help provide a full picture. No one uses fancies alone to judge a player (or if they do they are mindless). It's not shameful to point out there are notable deficiencies with some of these players. There should be. They're brand new.

Ignoring information because we don't think it matters is just shortsighted. Regardless of the rest of the roster, if zone exits, or shot shares are consistently a deficiency for one player, but not another, that's useful information, and you something you can actually track. I'm not asking KK to be like Vlasic, but if 72 consistently grades out better than KK across a number of metrics that's something that can at least be evaluated and discussed.
- Chunk

Appears we are only to believe the fancies when they are positive, and don't believe if they show negative tendencies.

And yes, I fully realize that playing partners/linemates/ QOC, etc. can skew any stat, why I am an eye test person. That is why I never comment on who the Hawks should or should not draft, I rarely see college/wjC/junior games. I read WIZ, and what others write about the players, but as to who I think they should draft? I have absolutely no clue, thus i don't have an opinion.

How, if you have signed an NHL contract, can you stay in Juniors?
- bjphawkfan

For 2 years past the signing year. for juniors (unless you age out of course)

How, if you have signed an NHL contract, can you stay in Juniors?
- bjphawkfan

Same way Ludwinski is doing it now (not to mention E del Mastro and Allan before him). The contract just keeps sliding. The only issue is with the NCAA as they don't allow you to make money off of playing your sport and maintain eligibility.

Interesting unvarnished (as always) quote from Tort's

While some have questioned if the 65-year-old's act is growing tired in his second season with the team, Tortorella has no plans to change his ways as the Flyers fight to end a three-year playoff drought.


"It comes down to, ‘Oh, they're going to quit on him.’ It follows me around. And so be it. If a player is going to quit on me, or players are going to quit on me because I'm trying to make them better people or better athletes, you've got the wrong damn coach here, and you're got the wrong damn people here," Tortorella said. "My job is, I'm going to push athletes.

"I try to stay away from... I have other things on my mind that I don't give you. I was in control the other night. What I said, I meant. And, quite honestly, when I watch the tape now I'm more concerned than just the second period. Because of, I'm so proud of the team getting here. I guess now the narrative out there is I've heard from other people (is): They're young. They're not supposed to be here. Bulls--t. We're here. We're here. Face it. And let's be better. And I don't think we're ready to be better, and that's my problem with us right now. And it is my job - I have not done a good enough job to get them over the hump. I haven't done a good enough job to make them understand we have to be different now.

"We have to be at a different level. That's my frustration with me, and that's my frustration with the team. And if people can't handle it, so be it."

Appears we are only to believe the fancies when they are positive, and don't believe if they show negative tendencies.

And yes, I fully realize that playing partners/linemates/ QOC, etc. can skew any stat, why I am an eye test person. That is why I never comment on who the Hawks should or should not draft, I rarely see college/wjC/junior games. I read WIZ, and what others write about the players, but as to who I think they should draft? I have absolutely no clue, thus i don't have an opinion.
- LAHawk

I'm in the same boat as you regarding watching prospects, but I 100% have an opinion on who they should draft. Only problem is that I pick them like I pick horses at the track. Whoever has the best name is who I go with. Hence, the Hawks should draft Zeev Buium.

And the Bears should draft either Chop Robinson, or Kool-Aid McKinstry.

Interesting unvarnished (as always) quote from Tort's

While some have questioned if the 65-year-old's act is growing tired in his second season with the team, Tortorella has no plans to change his ways as the Flyers fight to end a three-year playoff drought.


"It comes down to, ‘Oh, they're going to quit on him.’ It follows me around. And so be it. If a player is going to quit on me, or players are going to quit on me because I'm trying to make them better people or better athletes, you've got the wrong damn coach here, and you're got the wrong damn people here," Tortorella said. "My job is, I'm going to push athletes.

"I try to stay away from... I have other things on my mind that I don't give you. I was in control the other night. What I said, I meant. And, quite honestly, when I watch the tape now I'm more concerned than just the second period. Because of, I'm so proud of the team getting here. I guess now the narrative out there is I've heard from other people (is): They're young. They're not supposed to be here. Bulls--t. We're here. We're here. Face it. And let's be better. And I don't think we're ready to be better, and that's my problem with us right now. And it is my job - I have not done a good enough job to get them over the hump. I haven't done a good enough job to make them understand we have to be different now.

"We have to be at a different level. That's my frustration with me, and that's my frustration with the team. And if people can't handle it, so be it."
- LAHawk

This is easily my most hated opinion. I can't stand when people say this poop. I don't care one bit if you weren't expected to be good. If you are good enough to make the playoffs (or even better the final), yes you are supposed to be there. You scored enough points to get there, so don't stop. Make more noise. Shove that poop up as many people's asses as you can. Not sure why I'm so angry today, but that in particular just makes me lose it.

Why? It's simply another piece of information to help provide a full picture. No one uses fancies alone to judge a player (or if they do they are mindless). It's not shameful to point out there are notable deficiencies with some of these players. There should be. They're brand new.

Ignoring information because we don't think it matters is just shortsighted. Regardless of the rest of the roster, if zone exits, or shot shares are consistently a deficiency for one player, but not another, that's useful information, and you something you can actually track. I'm not asking KK to be like Vlasic, but if 72 consistently grades out better than KK across a number of metrics that's something that can at least be evaluated and discussed.
- Chunk

My post answered that question. The roster is so poor I prefer the eye test over most fancies as a result......... How much info can I gleen comparing/contrasting 19 yr old KK paired with Megna forcing him to his offside with 21 yr old Kaiser with 3 yrs in the NCAA paired with RS Zaitsev?

Sue, the fancies speak for themselves but at times they lack nuance/context and on a roster like this one especially so.

Appears we are only to believe the fancies when they are positive, and don't believe if they show negative tendencies.

And yes, I fully realize that playing partners/linemates/ QOC, etc. can skew any stat, why I am an eye test person. That is why I never comment on who the Hawks should or should not draft, I rarely see college/wjC/junior games. I read WIZ, and what others write about the players, but as to who I think they should draft? I have absolutely no clue, thus i don't have an opinion.
- LAHawk

You know you call me the cherry picker but if you went back 3, 4 games KKs about even in those other contests

Thanks for the site though

Wiz, tuned into the Medicine Hat game last night and Lindstrom was not playing.

You know you call me the cherry picker but if you went back 3, 4 games KKs about even in those other contests

Thanks for the site though
- BetweenTheDots

I also posted his entire season card so is that cherry-picking showing every game he has played this year?

I believe KK will turn out to be a fine defenseman. As others have pointed out he has a lot of growing pains still to come.

I also posted his entire season card so is that cherry-picking showing every game he has played this year?
- LAHawk

The graph? Okay, i guess, hopefully he amounts to something

The graph? Okay, i guess, hopefully he amounts to something
- BetweenTheDots

The graph is not predictive, shows past performance. Sorry that the stats so hurt your feelings.

The graph is not predictive, shows past performance. Sorry that the stats so hurt your feelings.
- LAHawk

Not at all, i think he plays really good for a 19 year old in spite of the fancies. No hurt feelings.

I believe as the team gets better around him those fancies will magically get better.

The Blackhawks 2020 draft included Slaggert, Kaiser, Lukas Reichel, Isaak Phillips and Louis Crevier.

In 2021, the draft included Nathan (Ethan) Allan, Del Mastro, Dach and Luypen. Each is in Rockford.

I thought I'd read that the cupboard was totally bare when KFC arrived? Looks to me like three members of the Top 6 defensemen of the future, one Top Six wing, and two bottom 6 guys.

Stevie Y arrived in Tampa after Stamkos and Hedman were drafted. Nobody like that was in the house when KFC got the gig, but the joint wasn't barren. Eh?

The Hawks signed 2023 3rd round pick to a 3 year ELC with a $896,667 AAV.

Personally, I think that’s a massive overpayment. The term is ok, but I think an AAV of $875,000 would have been realistic.

The Blackhawks 2020 draft included Slaggert, Kaiser, Lukas Reichel, Isaak Phillips and Louis Crevier.

In 2021, the draft included Nathan (Ethan) Allan, Del Mastro, Dach and Luypen. Each is in Rockford.

I thought I'd read that the cupboard was totally bare when KFC arrived? Looks to me like three members of the Top 6 defensemen of the future, one Top Six wing, and two bottom 6 guys.

Stevie Y arrived in Tampa after Stamkos and Hedman were drafted. Nobody like that was in the house when KFC got the gig, but the joint wasn't barren. Eh?
- mohel

Yeah, well you obviously don’t understand that Blowman sucks and didn’t do a damn thing for the franchise while he was here except eat potato chips and have extended naps.

The Hawks signed 2023 3rd round pick to a 3 year ELC with a $896,667 AAV.

Personally, I think that’s a massive overpayment. The term is ok, but I think an AAV of $875,000 would have been realistic.
- DarthKane

I'm sure the rookie GM also gave away too much in performance bonuses.

Yeah, well you obviously don’t understand that Blowman sucks and didn’t do a damn thing for the franchise while he was here except eat potato chips and have extended naps.
- paulr

I'm sure I need re-education camp. Ten years on the rock pile will straighten my arse out.

My post answered that question. The roster is so poor I prefer the eye test over most fancies as a result......... How much info can I gleen comparing/contrasting 19 yr old KK paired with Megna forcing him to his offside with 21 yr old Kaiser with 3 yrs in the NCAA paired with RS Zaitsev?

Sue, the fancies speak for themselves but at times they lack nuance/context and on a roster like this one especially so.
- Mr Ricochet

But there is no reason to ignore the data. Especially if you compare him to other defensemen on the same team. Use both. Use the eye test to add the nuance.

Is KK playing is off side or is Megna? Pretty sure KK plays the left.

Wiz, tuned into the Medicine Hat game last night and Lindstrom was not playing.
- Mr Ricochet

As you know Lindstrom was on the shelf for 6-8 weeks and came back for Game 1 of the playoffs. Played games 1 and 2 with a goal and an assist. .... Found a Medicine Hat newspaper that said he warmed up for Game 3 but was then scratched.

They play tonight so we'll know more then. ... Would really love to see the kid play a couple rds of playoff hockey.

Parekh scored the 1st goal for Saginaw tonight and really showed a good bit of the package he brings. Wing takes it in, checks up at the 1/2 wall, Parekh comes in as the trailer to fill open ice, opponent gets near him, he changes course/zigs to open ice, takes the pass above the circles, couple strides, goalie seems to be square with proper depth, kid snaps a beauty just inside the post...... Vison, read, IQ, skating, adjustment, head up, lazer of a snapper to an open sliver all in one sequence.

The CHL is awesome for the fan. Check out the box score tomorrow and they have 3-4-5 minute replays so you can see the goal I'm talking about.

The kid is so effortless and despite his 96 pts from what I can tell that coach runs 3 pairs so without knowing TOI for Jrs I'm guessing his TOI is not crazy high. I'd add his line changes are reasonable, he gets off without getting stuck for long shifts.

Our guy, Vandy, was probably pitching a tent if he was watching the 1st period of NY/NJ.

Our guy, Vandy, was probably pitching a tent if he was watching the 1st period of NY/NJ.
- mohel

Jesus. Bunch of guys just didn’t feel like playing a game tonight? What set it off? Opening faceoff?

But there is no reason to ignore the data. Especially if you compare him to other defensemen on the same team. Use both. Use the eye test to add the nuance.

Is KK playing is off side or is Megna? Pretty sure KK plays the left.
- Chunk

I don't ignore the data just put less weight on it, if any at all, for this Hawk squad. Comparing player fancies on the same squad will give one something to chew on but like my KK and Kaiser example that too adds context that chips away at the value of the fancies.

How bout Mrazak? If a NJ fan looked at his .907 SPG, and fancies too, and watched him a game or two there is no possible way to know how good he's been. IMO he's been about as good as most any goalie this yr but his stats won't, can't, show that.

I'm a believer in the fancies, in fact would say you can't fully understand the sport or players without them. But I'll always lean eye test which more times than not the fancies will support.