If they quit over Coots and being called out for their terrible play then congrats Comcast you’ve still somehow managed to assemble a room of all the wrong people… yet again!

Let's start with some simple facts. When Couturier was injured on Jan 13th. Here are the minutes played for the Flyers centers.


Couturier 802:13
Laughton 669:27
Poehling 517:17
Frost 490:13
- MJL

at that time that puts coots at 22nd in the league for centers for overall minutes.

If they quit over Coots and being called out for their terrible play then congrats Comcast you’ve still somehow managed to assemble a room of all the wrong people… yet again!
- hereticpride

Agreed. Pissed about it, sure. Quit because of it, no way.

Agreed. Pissed about it, sure. Quit because of it, no way.
- MJL

Can you play well when you pissed?

Can you play well when you pissed?
- missingmike

Sure, why not. Do think when they put the gear on and got out there for a game. They're thinking, "I'm not going to play hard now because I'm pissed" "I don't care about the playoffs and all that we worked for this season, going to throw it all away to protest the treatment of Couturier"

A few mock draft have the Flyers drafting Tij Iginla at 12 currently. From what I’ve read that doesn’t sound so bad.

Sure, why not. Do think when they put the gear on and got out there for a game. They're thinking, "I'm not going to play hard now because I'm pissed" "I don't care about the playoffs and all that we worked for this season, going to throw it all away to protest the treatment of Couturier"
- MJL

You are definitely entitled to your own opinion, I am, however, inclined to agree to disagree with you.

I am inclined to agree to disagree with you.
- missingmike

That's certainly your right but the players quitting doesn't make sense on any level.

Let me ask you this. You have a smallish kid and a world class marathoner both running a 10k. They both have to run the same distance in approximately the same time. Do you think one will have to expend a LOT more energy to accomplish this or not?
- MBFlyerfan

probably more energy, but what does this have to do with playing hockey?

probably more energy, but what does this have to do with playing hockey?
- jd250

JD, honestly not trying to make any dig towards you so I want to ask: Is Torts still your Jack Adams winner? If it is that is fine but curious to see what your opinion is now that we are seemingly out of the playoff picture.

If I had a Shorsey gif I would post "SO DUMB"

Training is not the same as game wear and tear.

Coming off basically a season and a half of not playing and two back surgeries, there should have been a plan to his minutes wisely. Not just plaing him at 20+ minutes until he broke down.

Yes they are professionals. Also they are human.

No one is saying that Couturier was great. But the way it was handled wasn't great. I believe that is what people are bringing up. For a coach who preaches accountability, he seemed not to bring that himself. Where is he being accountable for a bottom of the league PP. His usage of OT lines.

No one is saying Torts didn't do some ok things. But lets not think he is absolved from what is happening here to end the season and part of the reason some things went bad.
- J35Bacher

Torts has been accountable and has answered the questions when asked about them. For example the OT. Torts has stated he starts players like Cates or Poehling because he feels those give him the best chance to gain possession but also defend. So if they get possession, Torts can swap them out for his offensive players, and if they don't get possession he feels they have the best chance to defend and gain possession. As I have posted many times, I don't agree with his approach, but I certainly understand it.

And though the PP is a BIG issue with this club, I want to point out is was a very bad PP before Torts came here, even with players like Giroux on the team. The Flyers have had a bad PP for several years now and through multiple coaches and players. This is something Jones and Briere really have to work on IMO. There are teams like San Jose that are not loaded with talent and still have an effective PP, and I do believe the Flyers have enough talent to be at least average.

Agreed. Pissed about it, sure. Quit because of it, no way.
- MJL

i will even walk back my statements about Coots' response to the media about how he was being treated. he has a right to be angry and chose a pretty mild way of expressing frustration with what he said.

i still don't think the agent should have gotten involved.

JD, honestly not trying to make any dig towards you so I want to ask: Is Torts still your Jack Adams winner? If it is that is fine but curious to see what your opinion is now that we are seemingly out of the playoff picture.
- Flyfly

I have stated many times and will state it again, if the Flyers had made the playoffs this season with this team and everything this team has had to go through, I believe Torts deserved the Jak Adams. But obviously the way the team has faltered down the stretch here and the way Torts has behaved through this past few weeks with his post games, my opinion has changed.

I have stated many times and will state it again, if the Flyers had made the playoffs this season with this team and everything this team has had to go through, I believe Torts deserved the Jak Adams. But obviously the way the team has faltered down the stretch here and the way Torts has behaved through this past few weeks with his post games, my opinion has changed.
- jd250

Thanks, was honestly just wondering. Appreciate it

Thanks, was honestly just wondering. Appreciate it
- Flyfly

No problem.

Let's start with some simple facts. When Couturier was injured on Jan 13th. Here are the minutes played for the Flyers centers.


Couturier 802:13
Laughton 669:27
Poehling 517:17
Frost 490:13
- MJL

Ok .. so that averages 19 minutes per game. Couts was the 1C on this team. When you compare these minutes to other 1Cs around the league you clearly see Couts was not over used at all, he was used comparable to other 1Cs in the league.

https://www.nhl.com/stats...ssists&page=0&pageSize=50

Ok .. so that averages 19 minutes per game. Couts was the 1C on this team. When you compare these minutes to other 1Cs around the league you clearly see Couts was not over used at all, he was used comparable to other 1Cs in the league.

https://www.nhl.com/stats...ssists&page=0&pageSize=50
- jd250

And then how many of those centers are coming off 2 back surgeries?

Goaltending and play on the ice are symbiotic. Goaltending is not the biggest reason. The biggest reason is by far the team breaking down physically and emotionally due to playing at playoff level intensity for the full season just to be competitive. It reached it's apex after the 7 game gauntlent where the team gave it all they had left. They are now on empty.

Hart has never in his career been remotely close to a franchise goalie level.
- MJL

The Flyers are not a team with a true 1C or 1D for that matter. And Nathan McKinnon is not walking through that door either. I believe the Flyers played the way they had to play given the talent they have to compete. Now where I disagree with Torts the most besides his OT approach and the PP, is his use of veterans like Johnson and Staal post trade deadline. Sink or swim I would have like to see Torts play the kids as much as possible here so they can properly evaluate what they have going into the off-season.

And then how many of those centers are coming off 2 back surgeries?
- J35Bacher

Surgeries or not, Couts was healthy and ready to go at the start of the season, and he was the 1C on this team.

for the most part everyone here is being very cordial today and that makes it a much more pleasant place to discuss things, even when we disagree.

i know, sometimes i'm part of the problem

Ok .. so that averages 19 minutes per game. Couts was the 1C on this team. When you compare these minutes to other 1Cs around the league you clearly see Couts was not over used at all, he was used comparable to other 1Cs in the league.

https://www.nhl.com/stats...ssists&page=0&pageSize=50
- jd250

Other 1c's were not returning from 2 years off, 2 surgeries, and Torts bag skating them at te beginning of the year.

i think it's a terrible comparison. they are professional athletes. all teams play 82 games.
- Peter Richards

Well, if you believe all teams and rosters are equal and expel the same amount of effort to get where they need to go then I guess Ill agree to disagree.

Goaltending and play on the ice are symbiotic. Goaltending is not the biggest reason. The biggest reason is by far the team breaking down physically and emotionally due to playing at playoff level intensity for the full season just to be competitive. It reached it's apex after the 7 game gauntlent where the team gave it all they had left. They are now on empty.

Hart has never in his career been remotely close to a franchise goalie level.
- MJL

so his opinion is wrong yours is correct. do you have an verifiable proof what you say is true? any links.

Maybe the there is no "biggest" reason but many. Maybe the PP is the biggest reason. Or maybe they just are not that good a team and picked a bad time to show it. Maybe they cant handle the pressure. Nah cant be any of them as cliff has spoken.

Torts has been accountable and has answered the questions when asked about them. For example the OT. Torts has stated he starts players like Cates or Poehling because he feels those give him the best chance to gain possession but also defend. So if they get possession, Torts can swap them out for his offensive players, and if they don't get possession he feels they have the best chance to defend and gain possession. As I have posted many times, I don't agree with his approach, but I certainly understand it.
- jd250

That's just not how 3v3 is played and Torts is too stubborn to concede that he can't influence 3v3 defensively the way a coach can at 5v5 w/ line matching.

Meanwhile Poehls doesn't have the hockey sense or anticipation to go up against elite players in open ice and Cates has the hockey sense but not the wheels to stay ahead of the play at 3v3.

Just Torts trying to be smart and then doubling down in the face of failure. It took him all summer to give up the notion of 2D. It'll take him another summer to give up on Cates/Poehls.

https://twitter.com/NHLFl...5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

any thoughts cliff?