no sam reinhart. it's no different than signing TK. we aren't there yet.

...

fedotov may see this team as his best chance to come in and be a #1 so he might stay

...

Torts will likely be back for next year at least.

...

Drysdale is 22. give him some time.

...

is there any deal to be made involving TK for either Quinton Byfield or Wyatt Johnson? I know, "why would those teams trade them?" Well everyone is available for a price. but either of these guys would fill a need and for the future. I haven't looked - are there any cap dumps we can take on to help facilitate the money? Would we have to include a pick?
- anti-lame

Would love Johnston, but he has 65 points in 79 games in just his second year, including 32 goals. I highly doubt he is available.

Absolutely it was.

They wanted to rebuild. They didn't.

Then it became a push for the playoffs. They failed.

Absolutely wasted season.

They are no further ahead this year at building a winner than they were when last season ended.
- Pelle31Forever

I’m just trying to take some of the positives away…to me there were a few. This team was never a cup threat, that’s why I can’t get to worked up by the last few weeks. I see two former 1rst rnd picks that actually look like players.

As is almost always the case it wasn't a single thing that brought about this ignominious end to an otherwise enjoyable season, but many. They are very limited in talent, but driven by a harsh taskmaster to succeed. Losing Walker hurt them, not because he was great, but because it signaled that management wasn't committed to winning. What are they gaining with a very late 1st anyway? Coots had the opposite effect Torts wanted. The goalie situation screwed with their heads. Listen, they were going nowhere in the playoffs anyway. The thing that will haunt us for a long time will be losing Gauthier by not offering him an ELC...Drysdale is not equal compensation
- DANCER

Agreed 100%

I don't want to get bogged down in a MJL style unending debate of the lowest denominator about this. I think they have quit, you disagree, neither of us can be certain, no point endlessly speculating.

I do feel however what you said above (bolded) reduces a fairly successful coach to a cartoonish caricature. He has openly said that he knows others say players tend to quit on him. If he himself goes out and says it, it will transform accusations/innuendo into a career defining admission of guilt.

If he says that, it forces the end of his coaching regimen, because an organization cannot risk bringing back a coach who admits his players have quit on him. If they do, they have to clean out everyone, and they will be force to accept pennies to the $ because the league would know they have no choice. And if they don't clean out the stable of players, they risk an epic meltdown of a season and fans saying - why the hell did they bring Torts back?

This is not candidness. This is legacy defining suicide. Torts has always cutivated an image of a 'no-nonsense' successful coach. Far from his behavior being compulsive, I think it is a fairly well controlled image. Players are not supposed to quit on the coach - it is part of a coach's job to ensure that doesn't happen.

For him to admit they have would mean there is truth to the past rumors as well, that this was a pattern with him, that therefore he is not such a good coach after all - everywhere he went, players quit on him.

So, with all due respect, I don't think him saying otherwise has any relevance.
- PT21

Disagree.

Torts called out Coots and the fanbase branded Coots a whiner. Torts buried Hayes and the fanbase ate it up and DB god rid of him as soon as humanly possible. Torts banished TDA and he was gone almost immediately. Torts expressed frustration with Allison and he never got called up again. Torts wanted Johansen nowhere near the team and RJ has been persona non grata.

Management and the fanbase (outside of HB) are still 100% behind Torts.

So if Torts brands a player a quitter... well you can take it to the bank that the fans will rip that player to shreds and that DB will immediately look to move that player. Torts would LOVE a clear excuse to get rid of certain guys.

I don't think guys like Farabee and Frost are giving him that excuse tho. As Torts said, they're still giving max effort even if they haven't been playing perfectly.

IMO.

Apologies if this has been talked about.

Flyers are 2-7-3 since benching their captain.

I think Torts wants to be fired. Benching came after the temper tantrum. My ignorant guess is Captain called him out on his behaviour/made a joke and Torts didn't like that and benched him.

Killing the teams spirit as the coach refuses to apologize for his ridiculous behaviour.

I was pulling for Philly as I thought Ottawa and Flyers were basically same team (along with Detroit), but Torts can't stop being himself.

There's obviously still a chance but 9 goals against Montreal is a team quitting on the coach.
- PogBoi

It's been talked about. Some, like me, think it's a possibilty.Others say no way.

Cutter is a Hobey Baker finalist.
- cdearth23

Yeah, well, Drysdale is already a top 4 NHL dman.

Who was -6 last night.

Yup, exactly
On a top team, TK is a 2RW
Farabee-Couts-Tippett is a good 3rd line
Laughton-Poehling-Foerster is a good 4th line and Hathaway/Cates are your depth forwards

On D, York-Sanheim is a 2nd pair and Seeler is half of a 3rd pair. Drysdale, who isn’t 100% IMO is a depth guy right now along with, if he ever gets healthy, Fisto

And they obviously lack a #1 goaltender.

This team, even under astute management which they don’t have, is a minimum of 3 years away from contention and probably more like 4 or 5.

It’s truly a mess.
- BiggE

Couturier has had a down year offensively but what NHL teams has a 28 goals 53 point RW and a 22 goal 50 LW on their 3rd line?

Because that path has the highest probability of success. That's the best chance you have of acquiring guys like Mac, Crosby, Makar, Hedman, etc.

We already lived thru the Hexy era when he was tasked with rebuilding while being ordered to stay competitive. Do we really need to go down that road again? Are memories really that short?
- Tomahawk

I think we're already many miles down the Hextall road. Cue people saying bu bu bu but Briere has acquired multiple first round picks by taking on cap dumps. So did Ronald.

https://www.capfriendly.c...ades/players/jori-lehtera

Schenn did not get to play center with the Flyers. At least not regularly. Also, the last few years here G played wing. So they basically had Couts as the number 1 center and Giroux took a ton of draws. After Couts it was a bunch Pierre-Edouard Bellemares and VLC's.
- mickel25

This is true. That's why everyone was so excited about getting Nolan Patrick. Particularly Carchidi who thought he should be playing ahead of Couturier in the lineup in 2017.

Ok, so for all to see, you criticize the organization and coach by stating they don't play what you term a "modern and updated style of play" but then when asked to define that that means to you, this is your answer.

But to you I'm the one with no standing?
- jd250

For all to see.


I have posted countless times in detail concerning the style and system that Tortorella plays. You know this. Don't be a phony. I don't react to ultimatums. I post on my own terms.

They have a plan. It's just a (frank)ing stupid one: Culture First.
- Tomahawk

Culture is a product first of having the right people. They skipped that part.

But why does "rebuild" always have to mean completely through the draft? Why can't the Flyers draft and develop, while also signing some good depth players for fair money and have a competitive team on the ice that the developing players can be part of? Why does "rebuild" have to mean strip it down the to studs and completely start over?
- jd250

It eats away at the cap. The Flyers already have enough vets and depth players. You're contradicting yourself. You complain about Staal and Johnson playing ahead of Ginning and Attard and then ask what's wrong with adding some good depth players.

I don't want to get bogged down in a MJL style unending debate of the lowest denominator about this. I think they have quit, you disagree, neither of us can be certain, no point endlessly speculating.


- PT21

Living in your head, rent free.

Culture is a product first of having the right people. They skipped that part.
- funmaster18

Torts was supposed to be that first right person...

Like they were transplanting Belichick or something.

It's funny that the Coyotes are leaving Arizona just when it was made an extra appealing as a place for NHL players and their lady friends to live by an 1864 law outlawing abortion coming back on the books.

Culture is a product first of having the right people. They skipped that part.
- funmaster18

That's exactly right. Culture is a byproduct of having the right players. It comes from it. You don't build a culture first. Cart before the horse. All the talk of culture, standard and all that nonsense is just the flawed concepts that this Flyers organization has been hung on for decades.

That's exactly right. Culture is a byproduct of having the right players. It comes from it. You don't build a culture first. Cart before the horse. All the talk of culture, standard and all that nonsense is just the flawed concepts that this Flyers organization has been hung on for decades.
- MJL

You got it! It’s fine to state what you want your culture to be or what core values you want to have and abide by, but you can’t force culture down without first putting the right leadserhip in place (management, GM, coaches, staff) and bringing in the right players. I’d be fine with their messaging if I had faith they will do that. I need to see much more impactful moves to that show me they get it. Right now, I won’t say it’s all BS. It’s difficult to change everything you want over the course of a single season, but they certainly fell short of what I was hoping to see so far. This offseason should clear the air on what direction they are actually heading in. I won’t be holding my breath, but hoping for the right decisions to be made.

You got it! It’s fine to state what you want your culture to be or what core values you want to have and abide by, but you can’t force culture down without first putting the right leadserhip in place (management, GM, coaches, staff) and bringing in the right players. I’d be fine with their messaging if I had faith they will do that. I need to see much more impactful moves to that show me they get it. Right now, I won’t say it’s all BS. It’s difficult to change everything you want over the course of a single season, but they certainly fell short of what I was hoping to see so far. This offseason should clear the air on what direction they are actually heading in. I won’t be holding my breath, but hoping for the right decisions to be made.
- funmaster18

I agree that you can't change everything you want over the course of a single season. I don't see it as a single season though. I see as an organizational issue that is going back decades. This organization has been painfully slow to adapt. They have to be hit on the head numerous times to learn something. You can change the people in charge but the philosophies have stayed the same. I don't at all subscribe to a clean slate given because they hired some new people. It's the same old same old to me. If it was different, Tortorella never would've been hired. Jones never would've gotten the POHO job and the GM would've been brought in from the outside.

But why does "rebuild" always have to mean completely through the draft? Why can't the Flyers draft and develop, while also signing some good depth players for fair money and have a competitive team on the ice that the developing players can be part of? Why does "rebuild" have to mean strip it down the to studs and completely start over?
- jd250

Because the Flyers have a history in the salary cap era of wasting contracts/money on FAs that don't move the needle. Look no further than the recent Nick Seeler extension. Was it really necessary to give this guy 4 years at 2.7M per when you can pick up a Nick Seeler type off the scrap heap every year for a heck of a lot less money? I guess the coach, who won't be here when the Seeler contract ends, likes him, and that's obviously reason enough to overpay the man for 4 years during a supposed "rebuild."

When it comes to FA signings, the Flyers habitually act like a 12 year old with a $20 bill in a candy store.

Because the Flyers have a history in the salary cap era of wasting contracts/money on FAs that don't move the needle. Look no further than the recent Nick Seeler extension. Was it really necessary to give this guy 4 years at 2.7M per when you can pick up a Nick Seeler type off the scrap heap every year for a heck of a lot less money? I guess the coach, who won't be here when the Seeler contract ends, likes him, and that's obviously reason enough to overpay the man for 4 years during a supposed "rebuild."

When it comes to FA signings, the Flyers habitually act like a 12 year old with a $20 bill in a candy store.
- BaronVonShiznit

I don't know who posted it. It might have been you but it's true. The Flyers overpay everybody.
They're terrified of leaving the team out there to struggle. They can now say after the season is over that they didn't finish like they wanted to but that there were so many positives from this year. They're excited about the future when it reality. Big picture there is very little to be excited about. There is zero path to contention for this franchise currently.

It's funny that the Coyotes are leaving Arizona just when it was made an extra appealing as a place for NHL players and their lady friends to live by an 1864 law outlawing abortion coming back on the books.
- Feanor

Where’s Paul Harvey when you need him?

I’m not quite as pessimistic as you. I did see some things change that needed to. I did see some decent growth in some guys that they are going to need. Is it all sunshine and roses? Um no. Am I disappointed? Yes.. some what. I think a few playoff games would have been great for some of the younger guys, but now it’s more of a distasteful end to a season.
- landros 2

Yeah I guess you can say some made some natural progression. But it was hampered and a full picture or data was stunted. My frustration is simply that it’s as clear as day what needs to be done. Look at what guerin did in minny. Not saying Philly is same but when new regime comes in it’s one thing to say things but it’s what you do.

It’s kinda like Obama running on change but actually doing nothing. And winning marketing awards on campaign.

For me the key is tk. Move for assets maybe they get it. Sign him to extension status quo

Unfortunately like I’ve said many times Philly has a huge fan base full of blind idiots that they know they can exploit from. The most interesting thing they do is what new spin they use to draw these idiots in.

Not saying anyone on here is one of those idiots but we know some are. Defending and buying the excuses put out there. The sad thing is definitely doesn’t need to be this way

The Flyers already failed the litmus test whether they are really rebuilding or not. You don’t have to wait until TK is resigned to figure it out.

at the end of the day not much diff than chuck's final season.

at the end of the day not much diff than chuck's final season.
- hello it's me 2050

Or Hextall's final season. Or Holmgren's final season.

But hey... it's a New Era of Orange!!!