From the BBC:

British defence ministry says more than 1,000 mercenaries from Russia’s Wagner Group to be deployed to Ukraine for ‘combat operations’.

I knew it wouldn’t take long for the Wagner Group to show up. I guess the best way for Russia to defeat Ukrainian neo-nazis is with Russian neo-nazis. what a load of poop.
- bloatedmosquito

Not even close...

Not even close...
- boonerbuck

100% accurate. Indisputable fact that Dmitry Utkin is a nazi.



Got to love the Waffen SS collar tabs and a Reichsadler Eagle tattooed on his actual collar.

100% accurate. Indisputable fact that Dmitry Utkin is a nazi.



Got to love the Waffen SS collar tabs and a Reichsadler Eagle tattooed on his actual collar.
- bloatedmosquito

Like I said... not close. He's a Nazi..ok. In Azov we are talking about a large Nazi organization who has held seats in Parliament, can over throw their government(and has) and is a regular regiment in the Government forces, not Blackwater type contractors. We are talking about a Regiment who are built around ideology. It's light years apart. Azov and it's affiliated groups had been patrolling the streets as a self declared police force in Ukraine victimizing minorities and this was accepted by the government... Wagner group isn't going to Russian minority neighborhoods and getting away with burning minorities to death... like what's been happening in Ukraine. Wagner hasn't dragged Russian media members out of their homes for criticizing them and murdering them in public with no charges being laid... they are led by a (frank)ing scumbag... so you got that right.

If you are about to list some of the rumored things they've done in conflicts, well Blackwater and all the other groups in the west are up to their neck in war crimes as well... Governments send them off to do their dirty work to try and keep the blood on their hands out of the public eye... and it's worked wonderfully for USA, Israel and the UK.

Like I said... not close. He's a Nazi..ok. In Azov we are talking about a large Nazi organization who has held seats in Parliament, can over throw their government(and has) and is a regular regiment in the Government forces, not Blackwater type contractors. We are talking about a Regiment who are built around ideology. It's light years apart. Azov and it's affiliated groups had been patrolling the streets as a self declared police force in Ukraine victimizing minorities and this was accepted by the government... Wagner group isn't going to Russian minority neighborhoods and getting away with burning minorities to death... like what's been happening in Ukraine. Wagner hasn't dragged Russian media members out of their homes for criticizing them and murdering them in public with no charges being laid... they are led by a (frank)ing scumbag... so you got that right.

If you are about to list some of the rumored things they've done in conflicts, well Blackwater and all the other groups in the west are up to their neck in war crimes as well... Governments send them off to do their dirty work to try and keep the blood on their hands out of the public eye... and it's worked wonderfully for USA, Israel and the UK.
- boonerbuck

Wrong.

Wagner group (along with Rusich task force) are heroes in Russian. Awarded Russia’s top military honours. Yet are accused of war crimes in Ukraine, Syria, Libya and Venezuela. I know it doesn’t fit your narrative but it’s undeniable.

You need to do some more reading outside of what your search engine algorithm is feeding you.

Uncle Lurch there may have Nazi tattoos but every Azov soldier has a SS division emblem on their shoulder that they wear with devoted loyalty to Stephen Bandera. A SS collaborator. A militia responsible for the murder of 80,000 Jews and ridiculous numbers of Poles and Roma.

Zelensky was just ridiculed by a few members of Israel's parliament for his shaming them for not getting more involved. He claimed that Russia wants to do the "final solution" to them like the Nazis did to the Jews suggesting they need to step up or be guilty for being complicit. The retort was priceless... you mean like Ukraine did when 80,000 Jews were murdered in Ukraine in WWII?... and they nailed it. No one in Europe is more complicit to this stuff that Zelensky himself and Ukraine has a long history of final solutions.... to the point that the SS called them barbaric to their own people... let that sink in.

Wrong.

Wagner group (along with Rusich task force) are heroes in Russian. Awarded Russia’s top military honours. Yet are accused of war crimes in Ukraine, Syria, Libya and Venezuela. I know it doesn’t fit your narrative but it’s undeniable.

You need to do some more reading outside of what your search engine algorithm is feeding you.
- bloatedmosquito

It doesn't compare very well... only in small parts. They are contractors. Not a political organization like Azov, Right Sector and Svbota. Scumbags like the rest of those mercenary groups. Sure. Led by a nazi, apparently so... guilty of war crimes, ya like Blackwater and the rest of them. Their ass covered by their government, yes, like the rest of them.

You are not even in the same solar system on this.

It doesn't compare very well... only in small parts. They are contractors. Not a political organization like Azov, Right Sector and Svbota. Scumbags like the rest of those mercenary groups. Sure. Led by a nazi, apparently so... guilty of war crimes, ya like Blackwater and the rest of them. Their ass covered by their government, yes, like the rest of them.

You are not even in the same solar system on this.
- boonerbuck

I'm not sure what your angle is with this whole Ukraine/Russia thang.

You make it sound like the Azov are entrenched in Ukrainian culture. It is not. It's estimated that the Azov only have 900 to 1,500 soldiers in its battalion. That's a typical sized battalion but tiny compared to Ukraine's 250,000 soldiers overall.

Once again, you're overstating the importance of something that is not.

I gave you a very good example of a similar neo-nazi group in Russian who are currently making their way to the battle field. The Wagner Group has an estimated soldier count of 6,000 and that was in 2017. Their footprint is far larger and more grievous than a national gang of neo-nazi thugs entrenched in the Ukraine military.

The Wagner Group has fought internationally for Russia for a long time. They are a professional experienced army with neo-nazi ideologies. They have been decorated as if they were in the Russian military and they are essentially "owned" by Putin and his cronies! Good grief.

And you blew if off like it was nothing, going back to this Azov nonsense. WTF?

You've fallen for Putin's drivel of "once again Russia saving Europe from the Nazi Horde!" Yet he's doing it with his very own neo-nazi private army. Hilarious. You gobbled his drivel down like a fat kid on candy. Unbelievable.

I'm not sure what your angle is with this whole Ukraine/Russia thang.

You make it sound like the Azov are entrenched in Ukrainian culture. It is not. It's estimated that the Azov only have 900 to 1,500 soldiers in its battalion. That's a typical sized battalion but tiny compared to Ukraine's 250,000 soldiers overall.

Once again, you're overstating the importance of something that is not.

I gave you a very good example of a similar neo-nazi group in Russian who are currently making their way to the battle field. The Wagner Group has an estimated soldier count of 6,000 and that was in 2017. Their footprint is far larger and more grievous than a national gang of neo-nazi thugs entrenched in the Ukraine military.

The Wagner Group has fought internationally for Russia for a long time. They are a professional experienced army with neo-nazi ideologies. They have been decorated as if they were in the Russian military and they are essentially "owned" by Putin and his cronies! Good grief.

And you blew if off like it was nothing, going back to this Azov nonsense. WTF?

You've fallen for Putin's drivel of "once again Russian saving Europe from the Nazi Horde!" Yet he's doing it with his very own neo-nazi private army. Hilarious. You gobbled his drivel down like a fat kid on candy. Unbelievable.
- bloatedmosquito

I have been very civil in this discussion and been very responsible in the information I have given on here. Nowhere am I posting Russian propaganda news links or anything. The article from The Nation has 174 source links in it backing everything up. Yes I counted the links. I can't force you to read it or open the source links... but like I said, I've been very responsible in this debate.

Unless you follow the links and read the stories, you really can't claim where I'm getting my information from. Its all mainstream. Furthermore, it leaves you in the position of downplaying Azov, Right Sector, Svbota and all the other groups if you blindly make accusations and fabricate things I never said. You will never see a march of 20,000 neo Nazis in Russia holding up signs of Bandera and fascist symbols. Ukraine does just that. Meanwhile they ban political groups and parties in Ukraine, but not the Nazi parties. So much for the ideology not being entrenched in their culture. Nazis good, opposing groups bad. Try and spin your way out of that.

Wagner is not very similar. I did not blow it off like it was nothing either. You just made that up. Nowhere have I posted Putin's drivel. Sources like The Nation, BBC, The Guardian, The New York Times, The Jerusalem Post, The UN, The EU, The World Jewish Congress, Henry Wiesenthal Center, The FBI etc are where most people get their news in the west or sources trusted... they are not Putin Propagandists. I have my opinions about Corporate media, but again, this is what the west was saying just a few short years ago.

Azov and the other groups ideology, depending where you are is very entrenched in Ukrainian culture. Not in the east but in the west and historically, that's where Bandera's fascists were as well. That's where they slaughtered the Poles and Jews.

I'm very well informed on this topic. The way you are tackling the debate shows you are not. To you, Azov is a small group of thugs in their military. That is the new narrative since this war started.... not what the media was saying up until 2019...

Do you even know where Azov is fighting? They are alone and surrounded in Mariupol right now for the most part. The ethnic Greeks which are a huge part of that cities population have a completely different story about what Azov has been doing to civilians in that region as they come out in the limited evacs. The sooner those POS are defeated, the better. I'm hoping it will shift the diplomacy stand off a bit and save many lives.

I was just talking with the person that wrote the book "A Cure For Hate" just a couple of days ago. He works with the Jewish groups who monitor the worlds Nazis and sympathetic governments elements. He is very concerned that western media has shifted to normalize Azov/Right Sector... so are the groups he works with internationally. FOG OF WAR and you are buying it.... but they are not. Ukraine was listed by World Jewish Congress as #1 for antisemitism attacks in all of Europe... So it's a bigger part of their culture than anyone else in Europe obviously. For some reason, you are downplaying that.

Like I said before, my grandmother was a Ukrainian immigrant. They left because of the fascists I was told. I always thought she was mistaken. It had to be the Soviets... years of reading show me a totally different story. It's not that I don't have sympathy for Ukrainians, I just know there is a whole unpopular story about what has happened there and it should terrify people when their past is considered.

I have been very civil in this discussion and been very responsible in the information I have given on here. Nowhere am I posting Russian propaganda news links or anything. The article from The Nation has 174 source links in it backing everything up. Yes I counted the links. I can't force you to read it or open the source links... but like I said, I've been very responsible in this debate.

Unless you follow the links and read the stories, you really can't claim where I'm getting my information from. Its all mainstream. Furthermore, it leaves you in the position of downplaying Azov, Right Sector, Svbota and all the other groups if you blindly make accusations and fabricate things I never said. You will never see a march of 20,000 neo Nazis in Russia holding up signs of Bandera and fascist symbols. Ukraine does just that. Meanwhile they ban political groups and parties in Ukraine, but not the Nazi parties. So much for the ideology not being entrenched in their culture. Nazis good, opposing groups bad. Try and spin your way out of that.

Wagner is not very similar. I did not blow it off like it was nothing either. You just made that up. Nowhere have I posted Putin's drivel. Sources like The Nation, BBC, The Guardian, The New York Times, The Jerusalem Post, The UN, The EU, The World Jewish Congress, Henry Wiesenthal Center, The FBI etc are where most people get their news in the west or sources trusted... they are not Putin Propagandists. I have my opinions about Corporate media, but again, this is what the west was saying just a few short years ago.

Azov and the other groups ideology, depending where you are is very entrenched in Ukrainian culture. Not in the east but in the west and historically, that's where Bandera's fascists were as well. That's where they slaughtered the Poles and Jews.

I'm very well informed on this topic. The way you are tackling the debate shows you are not. To you, Azov is a small group of thugs in their military. That is the new narrative since this war started.... not what the media was saying up until 2019...

Do you even know where Azov is fighting? They are alone and surrounded in Mariupol right now for the most part. The ethnic Greeks which are a huge part of that cities population have a completely different story about what Azov has been doing to civilians in that region as they come out in the limited evacs. The sooner those POS are defeated, the better. I'm hoping it will shift the diplomacy stand off a bit and save many lives.

I was just talking with the person that wrote the book "A Cure For Hate" just a couple of days ago. He works with the Jewish groups who monitor the worlds Nazis and sympathetic governments elements. He is very concerned that western media has shifted to normalize Azov/Right Sector... so are the groups he works with internationally. FOG OF WAR and you are buying it.... but they are not. Ukraine was listed by World Jewish Congress as #1 for antisemitism attacks in all of Europe... So it's a bigger part of their culture than anyone else in Europe obviously. For some reason, you are downplaying that.

Like I said before, my grandmother was a Ukrainian immigrant. They left because of the fascists I was told. I always thought she was mistaken. It had to be the Soviets... years of reading show me a totally different story. It's not that I don't have sympathy for Ukrainians, I just know there is a whole unpopular story about what has happened there and it should terrify people when their past is considered.
- boonerbuck

Thanks. Terrible hockey takes aside, I appreciate the amount of time you must spend going through all of this. I hear western propaganda every time the news comes on, I hear Russian propaganda every evening when I ask my wife what was in the news back home.

My in-laws said that they watched two anti-missile defense rockets launch from frighteningly near their home in Sevastopol the day before yesterday. Sevastopol has been a military target for more than a century.

Thanks. Terrible hockey takes aside, I appreciate the amount of time you must spend going through all of this. I hear western propaganda every time the news comes on, I hear Russian propaganda every evening when I ask my wife what was in the news back home.

My in-laws said that they watched two anti-missile defense rockets launch from frighteningly near their home in Sevastopol the day before yesterday. Sevastopol has been a military target for more than a century.
- 1970vintage

Ya, somewhere in the middle of all the propaganda from both sides, the fog of war is a lot thinner. Problem is, the might of America's propaganda machine is bigger than anything history has ever seen.

I run into people all the time that only hear one side of the story. Like everyone else, I'm saturated with that side of the story everywhere I turn. Yet, when you talk about whats being left out of the western narratives, people get uptight and accuse you of only knowing one side of the story. The side of the story they won't listen to.

Here's a open joint letter from Human Rights Watch and a collection of other human rights groups to the Ukraine Gov about them standing back and not prosecuting these groups for their crimes against humanity. Even when the groups film their own raids with weapons and pepper spray chasing woman and small children around in Roma camps then burning them down, no action taken. No one prosecuted.

https://www.hrw.org/news/...ecutor-general-concerning

Groups who engage in activity like this or promote it are classified terrorists in the west. In Ukraine, they are given a regiment and weapons of war. In the west, these groups have their platforms denied on the internet, in Ukraine they get government funding...

When we talk about ideology entrenched in Ukrainian culture, you need to look no further than how in the west, Holocaust and Nazi deniers are banned and prosecuted but in Ukraine, they have passed legislation to cover up their involvement in these acts. So they are doing the complete opposite... censoring their history and collaborations in the holocaust and going after their accusers.

This is why I applauded those Israeli members of Parliament that threw back Zelensky comments drawing parallels of the Final Solution. Ukraine worked hand in hand with the Nazis and are systematically erasing records of it. How can they compare when themselves murdered 80k Jews? They have banned books and authors who have written about it. They have banned movies that merely mention their involvement... this has all been in recent years... not decades ago.

I have been very civil in this discussion and been very responsible in the information I have given on here. Nowhere am I posting Russian propaganda news links or anything. The article from The Nation has 174 source links in it backing everything up. Yes I counted the links. I can't force you to read it or open the source links... but like I said, I've been very responsible in this debate.

Unless you follow the links and read the stories, you really can't claim where I'm getting my information from. Its all mainstream. Furthermore, it leaves you in the position of downplaying Azov, Right Sector, Svbota and all the other groups if you blindly make accusations and fabricate things I never said. You will never see a march of 20,000 neo Nazis in Russia holding up signs of Bandera and fascist symbols. Ukraine does just that. Meanwhile they ban political groups and parties in Ukraine, but not the Nazi parties. So much for the ideology not being entrenched in their culture. Nazis good, opposing groups bad. Try and spin your way out of that.

Wagner is not very similar. I did not blow it off like it was nothing either. You just made that up. Nowhere have I posted Putin's drivel. Sources like The Nation, BBC, The Guardian, The New York Times, The Jerusalem Post, The UN, The EU, The World Jewish Congress, Henry Wiesenthal Center, The FBI etc are where most people get their news in the west or sources trusted... they are not Putin Propagandists. I have my opinions about Corporate media, but again, this is what the west was saying just a few short years ago.

Azov and the other groups ideology, depending where you are is very entrenched in Ukrainian culture. Not in the east but in the west and historically, that's where Bandera's fascists were as well. That's where they slaughtered the Poles and Jews.

I'm very well informed on this topic. The way you are tackling the debate shows you are not. To you, Azov is a small group of thugs in their military. That is the new narrative since this war started.... not what the media was saying up until 2019...

Do you even know where Azov is fighting? They are alone and surrounded in Mariupol right now for the most part. The ethnic Greeks which are a huge part of that cities population have a completely different story about what Azov has been doing to civilians in that region as they come out in the limited evacs. The sooner those POS are defeated, the better. I'm hoping it will shift the diplomacy stand off a bit and save many lives.

I was just talking with the person that wrote the book "A Cure For Hate" just a couple of days ago. He works with the Jewish groups who monitor the worlds Nazis and sympathetic governments elements. He is very concerned that western media has shifted to normalize Azov/Right Sector... so are the groups he works with internationally. FOG OF WAR and you are buying it.... but they are not. Ukraine was listed by World Jewish Congress as #1 for antisemitism attacks in all of Europe... So it's a bigger part of their culture than anyone else in Europe obviously. For some reason, you are downplaying that.

Like I said before, my grandmother was a Ukrainian immigrant. They left because of the fascists I was told. I always thought she was mistaken. It had to be the Soviets... years of reading show me a totally different story. It's not that I don't have sympathy for Ukrainians, I just know there is a whole unpopular story about what has happened there and it should terrify people when their past is considered.
- boonerbuck

Russia’s fixation (and yours apparently) on a minor player like the Azov movement serves a purpose – allowing people like you to frame Russia’s invasion as an ideological or existential struggle. Which is pure propaganda. Well done.

Russia’s fixation (and yours apparently) on a minor player like the Azov movement serves a purpose – allowing people like you to frame Russia’s invasion as an ideological or existential struggle. Which is pure propaganda. Well done.
- bloatedmosquito

It's true that I am putting a lot of effort into countering your downplaying of these groups, the wide spread ideology and the government support for it in Ukraine, but in reality, I think the bigger issue with the Russians is the threat of foreign bases being established in Ukraine and the abuse of the ethnic Russians in the east. Zelensky certainly added to Russia's paranoia when he brought up Ukraine reconsidering their Nuclear weapons status in comments made not too long ago. I've talked about other issues in this thread. The focus is on your end obviously. I'm responding now is all.

The videos Azov just released of them one by one shooting Russian POW's in the legs in public and letting them bleed out is only going to fuel the hatred more. Ethnic Russians have been putting up with that crap for over 8 years and now that those Azov units are surrounded in Mariupol and the helicopter evac attempt to get their fleeing commanders out was shot down, those units days are numbered. Azov still has other units though but their numbers will be more than halved.

I don't have trouble keeping the conversation about the topic instead of you. I don't know why you always struggle with that.

It's true that I am putting a lot of effort into countering your downplaying of these groups, the wide spread ideology and the government support for it in Ukraine, but in reality, I think the bigger issue with the Russians is the threat of foreign bases being established in Ukraine and the abuse of the ethnic Russians in the east. Zelensky certainly added to Russia's paranoia when he brought up Ukraine reconsidering their Nuclear weapons status in comments made not too long ago. I've talked about other issues in this thread. The focus is on your end obviously. I'm responding now is all.

The videos Azov just released of them one by one shooting Russian POW's in the legs in public and letting them bleed out is only going to fuel the hatred more. Ethnic Russians have been putting up with that crap for over 8 years and now that those Azov units are surrounded in Mariupol and the helicopter evac attempt to get their fleeing commanders out was shot down, those units days are numbered. Azov still has other units though but their numbers will be more than halved.

I don't have trouble keeping the conversation about the topic instead of you. I don't know why you always struggle with that.
- boonerbuck

Everything you have been talking about is exaggerated at best (or just plain false) which you've done on a regular basis.

Unsolicited and unprovoked you entered the conversation with "We are supporting Nazis". Your exact words... or more accurately, parroting Putin's propaganda. I'll re-post that comment below this response so you don't go and change it like you tend to do.

No one has denied the existence of the Azov neo-Nazi movement. They exist without a doubt. But not in the form you are promoting.

Azov is not entrenched in the Ukrainian government or are they a major part of the establishment. You are obviously referring to Andriy Biletsky, who was a 2014 elected MP and founding member of Azov. In the last democratic elections in 2019, the Ukrainian people elected a Jewish president and ousted Biletsky. Azov's political wing (the National Corps Party) only had 2.15% of the popular vote. No seats, no representation in parliament. A complete non-factor. To put that into perspective, The People's Party of Canada (Alt-right party) got 5% of the popular vote.

Would you consider Canada alt-right because a party of that ideology got twice as many popular votes as National Corps Party? Of course you wouldn't but that's what you are doing to Ukraine.

Putin has used extreme rhetoric and baseless claims of neo-Nazism and genocide in Ukraine for months now. Even going as far as calling it a neo-Nazi junta imposed by shadowy hostile Western forces. You have picked up that torch and carried it proudly. You fell for one of the oldest tricks in the disinformation playbook. Take snippets of truth and morph them into a cause to support a false narrative. Well done.

Refreshing to see someone say the obvious on here instead of just repeating America's propaganda on Ukraine. 2014 was a color change backed by the States. From democratically elected Russian ally to anti Russian puppet.

If anyone has doubts that it was an American coup, please search and listen to the leaked Victoria Nuland(State Department) phone call where she clearly decides their new leader. Organizers and EU wanted Klitschko(a moderate) and she said "F*ck the EU"(actual quote) and she tells them the USA wants Arseniy Yatsenyuk who would go on to lay a heavy hand on Eastern Ukraine who rejected America's puppet. Why wouldn't they... the guy they voted for was just taken down in a illegal American coup. This led to the civil war that's been going on for pretty much 8 years now.

To make it worse, Azov Battalion which is a hardcore Neo Nazi political group formed a militia that has been doing most of the fighting on the Donbas contact line. Last numbers I saw had them 4000 strong. Only recently they were added to the Ukrainian gov forces.

We are supporting Nazis in this conflict. Their national hero is Stephan Bandera. They are ruthless and have been shelling the cities in Donbas since 2014. People can say both sides are guilty of this but the Gov side is not sieged in cities... they are out in the small villages and farmland.

America has been pushing for a European war with Russia since the Clinton administration. There has been 17 nations added to NATO since 97 and all moving eastward toward Russia. Every one of these is basically an American base. We saw how America responded to the Cuban Missile Crisis... well every NATO addition to Eastern Europe is a Missile Crisis to Russia. USA could have gave assurances to not recruit Ukraine before this started but refused. They showed their hand and their hand is adding Ukraine to NATO eventually. Does anyone really think Russia is going to let that happen? Like you say, imagine if Russia/China did this to America's neighbors like Mexico and Canada....

Instead, most believe this happened because Putin is evil and wants their resources... totally ignorant of America's 25 years of aggression towards Russia and Ukraine clearly was a red line.

America has sacrificed Ukraine. Plain and simple.
- boonerbuck

Everything you have been talking about is exaggerated at best (or just plain false) which you've done on a regular basis.

Unsolicited and unprovoked you entered the conversation with "We are supporting Nazis". Your exact words... or more accurately, parroting Putin's propaganda. I'll re-post that comment below this response so you don't go and change it like you tend to do.

No one has denied the existence of the Azov neo-Nazi movement. They exist without a doubt. But not in the form you are promoting.

Azov is not entrenched in the Ukrainian government or are they a major part of the establishment. You are obviously referring to Andriy Biletsky, who was a 2014 elected MP and founding member of Azov. In the last democratic elections in 2019, the Ukrainian people elected a Jewish president and ousted Biletsky. Azov's political wing (the National Corps Party) only had 2.15% of the popular vote. No seats, no representation in parliament. A complete non-factor. To put that into perspective, The People's Party of Canada (Alt-right party) got 5% of the popular vote.

Would you consider Canada alt-right because a party of that ideology got twice as many popular votes as National Corps Party? Of course you wouldn't but that's what you are doing to Ukraine.

Putin has used extreme rhetoric and baseless claims of neo-Nazism and genocide in Ukraine for months now. Even going as far as calling it a neo-Nazi junta imposed by shadowy hostile Western forces. You have picked up that torch and carried it proudly. You fell for one of the oldest tricks in the disinformation playbook. Take snippets of truth and morph them into a cause to support a false narrative. Well done.
- bloatedmosquito

I keep supporting my claim of what has happened in recent years with western media outlets that people in this thread defend. I've posted reports and documents from human rights groups and antisemitism watch groups. I've posted links to Ukraine's own legislation... you keep circling back to Putin Propaganda and how I'm using that in my arguments. Everything I'm doing is contradicting your accusations.

Yes we have been supporting Nazis. During the 2014 coup, Canada let Azov use their embassy. Canada has provided weapons to Ukraine that are ending up in Azov's hands. The west has been training their militias and it's not just Azov, we are talking about multiple Nazi groups, not just Azov's fighting battalion's numbers. You are the one just single mindedly over and over focusing on Azov. Western media is white washing what these groups have done and downplaying their involvement in Ukraine and their crimes.... that is also considered support and probably the most effective out of all of it.

Just keep yelling Putin Propaganda. Lame argument with all the information I'm providing. All I hear from you is America's white washing. Their media keeps defending these Nazis...you are the one falling for the propaganda. Ukraine makes holocaust denial a standard in legislation and bans literature and movies that merely mention Ukraine's involvement... You are defending that government. Zelensky like any other leader is just a front man for a much bigger band. Israel isn't falling for the narrative he is required to present about the final solution. They know what's going on there...

Let's talk more about Zelensky... The Ukrainian oligarch Ihor Kolomoysky who owned the network that Zelensky played a presidential candidate in was Azov's number one financial supporter and also a supporter of Dnipro and Aidar Battalions post 2014. His network was also a big player in getting Zelensky elected. A actor... who played a presidential candidate... who's former boss is a Nazi supporter... Z is now a President,,, who supports Azov and all the other ultra nationalists groups... People need to get their head on straight about what Zelensky actually is... a useful idiot who was promoted by a production company run by a Nazi...

In 2016, Kolomoysky’s Privatbank collapsed. The bailout cost American/Canadian and European tax payers 5.5B who were propping the government up at the time. In 2020, USA seized his American holdings after he embezzled billions and laundered a lot of it in USA... Our tax money it appears.

- bloatedmosquito

So I'm only talking about Azov am I? In the quote posted I talk about the western coup, Victoria Nuland's leaked call putting their puppet in place. How the EU/Ukraine wanted Klitschko and she said "(frank) the EU" and put their monster in power anyways. I talk about NATO encroachment right up to Russia's borders which is nothing less than an American base in every one of those countries. I drew parallels to the Cuban Missile Crisis. I talked about how Biden refused to give assurances of no NATO recruitment of Ukraine before the invasion. I pointed out how the evil regime narrative ignores America's 25 years of aggression moving east in Europe.... I supported this and so much more with around 200 links...

All you hear is Azov bad.

Thanks for the quote by the way. You saved me some effort.

The only reason this has become a Azov focus is because you put effort into making it so.

So I'm only talking about Azov am I? In the quote posted I talk about the western coup, Victoria Nuland's leaked call putting their puppet in place. How the EU/Ukraine wanted Klitschko and she said "(frank) the EU" and put their monster in power anyways. I talk about NATO encroachment right up to Russia's borders which is nothing less than an American base in every one of those countries. I drew parallels to the Cuban Missile Crisis. I talked about how Biden refused to give assurances of no NATO recruitment of Ukraine before the invasion. I pointed out how the evil regime narrative ignores America's 25 years of aggression moving east in Europe.... I supported this and so much more with around 200 links...

All you hear is Azov bad.

Thanks for the quote by the way. You saved me some effort.

The only reason this has become a Azov focus is because you put effort into making it so.
- boonerbuck

You said "we [Canada] are supporting Nazis" which is demonstrably false. You know exactly why you said it. Don't play dumb now.

You even went so far as to say Zelenskyy welcomed Azov into the Ukrainian military which to was demonstrably false.

Then you said Zelenskyy was complicit with neo-Nazi's in the Ukraine military until you were informed he's Jewish. Oops, now that's a narrative buster.

Then you said Azov is entrenched into the Ukrainian government which is, you guessed it, demonstrably false.

Then you have the cheek to say that "all you see is Azov". Is that demonstrably false? Let's see... You bring Azov into the conversation on page 165, 166, you post about it five separate times on page 167, and three times on page 168 before a single person comments or even mentions anything about Azov. Come on Booner, own it.

I like having good debates, but when you are flinging poop, get called out, and then start playing the victim then engaging is not worth it. Drop the Nazi horseshit and focus on the legitimate issues (which ironically you've touched on very well in between all of Putin's Nazi propaganda).

You said "we
- bloatedmosquito[Canada] are supporting Nazis" which is demonstrably false. You know exactly why you said it. Don't play dumb now.

You even went so far as to say Zelenskyy welcomed Azov into the Ukrainian military which to was demonstrably false.

Then you said Zelenskyy was complicit with neo-Nazi's in the Ukraine military until you were informed he's Jewish. Oops, now that's a narrative buster.

Then you said Azov is entrenched into the Ukrainian government which is, you guessed it, demonstrably false.

Then you have the cheek to say that "all you see is Azov". Is that demonstrably false? Let's see... You bring Azov into the conversation on page 165, 166, you post about it five separate times on page 167, and three times on page 168 before a single person comments or even mentions anything about Azov. Come on Booner, own it.

I like having good debates, but when you are flinging poop, get called out, and then start playing the victim then engaging is not worth it. Drop the Nazi horseshit and focus on the legitimate issues (which ironically you've touched on very well in between all of Putin's Nazi propaganda).

Our Canadian Gov has been supporting Azov. It's the truth. You keep ignoring it. The examples are many and still on going. Just because you refuse to open any of the source links or read the journalism, reports and documents I provide doesn't negate this. Not false. It's denial without any support.

I admitted I made a mistake by naming Zelenky and corrected it with Government. You ignore that fact. Pretend I didn't address it.

Zelensky is complicit with Nazi battalions in his military Jewish or not. That is still a fact. There are multiple battalions, not just Azov either. No narrative buster there. He never disbanded them. In fact, he calls them their best fighters in an interview I provide. Like it or not, he's doing what you accuse Putin of. More denial.

The ideology of Azov is entrenched in parts of Ukraine's culture. Their government enforces it with legislation like I've shown already. If it's not, how the (frank) does a Nazi march of 20,000 people happen in 2019? More denial.

You keep going on about my claims but the truth is I keep showing you that these claims are from legitimate sources that I agree with... you simply just keep refusing to look for yourself and keep denying it. Repeated denial over and over.

Proof is all through the discussion I'm bringing more into it than Azov. You circle back to Azov over and over now and then count the replies as me focusing on it. I'm often replying to you and you are being dishonest about that.

You accuse me of flinging poop. I'm backing it all up with like 200 links. You provide a pic of Dmitry Utkin Nazi tattoos and your case is concrete. OK.

Now you reached the stage you never can resist. The victim narrative. Well who didn't know that was coming. It always caps your failing arguments.

Let's make one thing clear here that busts your narrative about me and the Azov topic... you brought it up in the main thread and requested I come in here to discuss it with you. YOU.


Did you honestly think showing me a pic with your opinions expressed was going to negate everything years of investigative journalism shows, research by antisemitism watchdog groups, reports by the UN and EU, victim testimonies, video footage, statistics... material I provide in this thread... not likely.

Let's make one thing clear here that busts your narrative about me and the Azov topic... you brought it up in the main thread and requested I come in here to discuss it with you. YOU.


Did you honestly think showing me a pic with your opinions expressed was going to negate everything years of investigative journalism shows, research by antisemitism watchdog groups, reports by the UN and EU, victim testimonies, video footage, statistics... material I provide in this thread... not likely.
- boonerbuck

More lies. Prove that I brought it up in the main thread. Provide the comment or a link. I have never mentioned Azov in the main thread or started this conversation.

More lies. Prove that I brought it up in the main thread. Provide the comment or a link. I have never mentioned Azov in the main thread or started this conversation.
- bloatedmosquito

You brought up the militias and Wagner in the main thread and requested I come here to discuss it. Azov is a big part of that topic clearly. You are going to deny it because you didn't name Azov specifically? How do we have a conversation about this and exclude Azov? As usual you lost track of what you've posted and where while pointing the finger.

More lies. Prove that I brought it up in the main thread. Provide the comment or a link. I have never mentioned Azov in the main thread or started this conversation.
- bloatedmosquito

"Hey, since our last convo in the politics thread I've been looking into these European militias and private armies. Crazy poop. Have you read up on the Wagner Group? Unbelievable.

When I have some more time (have to leave soon) let's discuss more in the other thread."

So here I am discussing with the person who invited it as he rewrites everything.

https://www.hockeybuzz.com/boards/post.php?thread_id=178182&forum_id=1"e=22195248

Won't hotlink the thread. Just copy and paste...

I had stopped posting about Ukraine Nazis then you fired it back up again. I returned to HB on the 24th... I didnt post on the subject again until after you rekindled the debate on the 28th... are you going to claim you didnt mean Nazis? Here's the post one page back...

"I knew it wouldn’t take long for the Wagner Group to show up. I guess the best way for Russia to defeat Ukrainian neo-nazis is with Russian neo-nazis. what a load of poop."

Wants to talk about neo Nazis in Ukraine but you can't discuss Azov. Brings it up and then accuses the other person of focusing on it. This is comical.