just abolish the senate. it's the do-nothing, political rewards chamber.

once a decade, the senate will send back a bill to get re-written because it's an abomination. that doesn't justify the country club the other 9.9/10 years.
- RealityChecker

I am fine with abolishing Senate, but, we all know that won't happen.
Having a proportional senate, would force the governments to be more inclusive of all parties concerns, as the Bill's wouldn't pass through the Senate.
They would have to limit these positions to 10 years or 75 years old.
This may help have cohesive and effective government decisions, anything is better than the same 2 parties getting roughly 1/3 of the popular vote and still forming government, yet, the majority have voted for something else.
Something needs to change.

I am fine with abolishing Senate, but, we all know that won't happen.
Having a proportional senate, would force the governments to be more inclusive of all parties concerns, as the Bill's wouldn't pass through the Senate.
They would have to limit these positions to 10 years or 75 years old.
This may help have cohesive and effective government decisions, anything is better than the same 2 parties getting roughly 1/3 of the popular vote and still forming government, yet, the majority have voted for something else.
Something needs to change.
- Reubenkincade

you're right that this is an imperfect system. I just don't see a fix that would address the issues while still allowing for a robust government that accomplishes things.

i used to be pro-senate. "the sober voice of government." i've been worn down by the cronyism/patronage and abuse. i've met senators who genuinely seem to want to work but that's not the impression i get from observing government in action.

the discussions that we've had in this thread though need to happen.

if anything, i think we can agree that things are getting worse. i just don't see alternatives that can bring about positive change. however, if the discussion starts, perhaps an alternative can be found.

btw, the first senator i met was under 40 years of age. i wanted to ask whose palm he greased or who he had dirt on to get the appointment. imagine being in your 30's and getting a lifetime job that in all practicality you can't get fired from. pretty sweet gig.

you're right that this is an imperfect system. I just don't see a fix that would address the issues while still allowing for a robust government that accomplishes things.

i used to be pro-senate. "the sober voice of government." i've been worn down by the cronyism/patronage and abuse. i've met senators who genuinely seem to want to work but that's not the impression i get from observing government in action.

the discussions that we've had in this thread though need to happen.

if anything, i think we can agree that things are getting worse. i just don't see alternatives that can bring about positive change. however, if the discussion starts, perhaps an alternative can be found.

btw, the first senator i met was under 40 years of age. i wanted to ask whose palm he greased or who he had dirt on to get the appointment. imagine being in your 30's and getting a lifetime job that in all practicality you can't get fired from. pretty sweet gig.
- RealityChecker

That would have to change, if it was more representative of the popular vote.
How can I get one of them appointments? 😁

I voted against someone rather than for someone this election.

I get the disappointment with voter reform, but I’m not sure how you make that work, wether it’s a referendum or just legislation. It’s a pretty complicated issue, that’s too over simplified when sold to voters. On the surface proportional representation sounds ideal, but in practice it’s a mess. It opens the door to continuous minority governments and fringe single issue parties. Though flawed, our current system consistently produces stable governments.
- CubanBuffet

Why do you assume a minority government isn't stable?

Most places that use PR produce stable minority governments and while they do allow for fringe single issue parties sometimes achieving power, that's the point of democracy. If a large enough population want a naked representative in Ottawa, that is their right.

PR is born from democratic political systems devolving into 2 or 3 party systems. Our system is designed to elect a local representative who speaks to their constituents issues, unfortunately what happens is we vote for a party in most cases and parties generally force votes along party lines removing any actual local representation.


P.S. I'm glad I went looking for Serenity.

you're right that this is an imperfect system. I just don't see a fix that would address the issues while still allowing for a robust government that accomplishes things.

i used to be pro-senate. "the sober voice of government." i've been worn down by the cronyism/patronage and abuse. i've met senators who genuinely seem to want to work but that's not the impression i get from observing government in action.

the discussions that we've had in this thread though need to happen.

if anything, i think we can agree that things are getting worse. i just don't see alternatives that can bring about positive change. however, if the discussion starts, perhaps an alternative can be found.

btw, the first senator i met was under 40 years of age. i wanted to ask whose palm he greased or who he had dirt on to get the appointment. imagine being in your 30's and getting a lifetime job that in all practicality you can't get fired from. pretty sweet gig.
- RealityChecker[/quote]

Brazeau?
And he did get fired

[quote=RealityChecker]you're right that this is an imperfect system. I just don't see a fix that would address the issues while still allowing for a robust government that accomplishes things.

i used to be pro-senate. "the sober voice of government." i've been worn down by the cronyism/patronage and abuse. i've met senators who genuinely seem to want to work but that's not the impression i get from observing government in action.

the discussions that we've had in this thread though need to happen.

if anything, i think we can agree that things are getting worse. i just don't see alternatives that can bring about positive change. however, if the discussion starts, perhaps an alternative can be found.

btw, the first senator i met was under 40 years of age. i wanted to ask whose palm he greased or who he had dirt on to get the appointment. imagine being in your 30's and getting a lifetime job that in all practicality you can't get fired from. pretty sweet gig.
- belcherbd[/quote]

Brazeau?
And he did get fired

Haha. I thought that someone might think that.

This was many years ago and he was an oil industry executive from Ontario (not Alberta). It gets weirder, he was appointed by and as a Liberal.

[[/quote]

Brazeau?
And he did get fired
Haha. I thought that someone might think that.

This was many years ago and he was an oil industry executive from Ontario (not Alberta). It gets weirder, he was appointed by and as a Liberal.

Edit: Brazeau getting the poop kicked out of him by Trudeau was one of the best boxing matches ever. Couldn't happen to a better guy.

[quote=RealityChecker]

Yup,

Why do you assume a minority government isn't stable?

Most places that use PR produce stable minority governments and while they do allow for fringe single issue parties sometimes achieving power, that's the point of democracy. If a large enough population want a naked representative in Ottawa, that is their right.

PR is born from democratic political systems devolving into 2 or 3 party systems. Our system is designed to elect a local representative who speaks to their constituents issues, unfortunately what happens is we vote for a party in most cases and parties generally force votes along party lines removing any actual local representation.


P.S. I'm glad I went looking for Serenity.
- belcherbd

There’s stable minority governments for sure. BC is doing fine with ours, but I do think they are inherently less stable.

PR is a truer representation of democracy, but I don’t necessarily think that’s a good thing. Or phrased differently, it could devolve into a bad thing. It follows societal trends more closely, good on the surface, but to me government is supposed to be a stabilizing force and following societal trends, particularly these days, could lead to less stability and more tribalism and even further division.

There’s stable minority governments for sure. BC is doing fine with ours, but I do think they are inherently less stable.

PR is a truer representation of democracy, but I don’t necessarily think that’s a good thing. Or phrased differently, it could devolve into a bad thing. It follows societal trends more closely, good on the surface, but to me government is supposed to be a stabilizing force and following societal trends, particularly these days, could lead to less stability and more tribalism and even further division.
- CubanBuffet

As I mentioned before you'd have to adjust the way we call elections. Minority governments would have a minimum term so that they wouldn't be able to call elections every 6 months to 2 years based on political climate. If you're going to overhaul the the electoral system, then you might as well have fixed elections of every four years. That would bring more stability as the parties would be forced to work together for 4 years.

As I mentioned before you'd have to adjust the way we call elections. Minority governments would have a minimum term so that they wouldn't be able to call elections every 6 months to 2 years based on political climate. If you're going to overhaul the the electoral system, then you might as well have fixed elections of every four years. That would bring more stability as the parties would be forced to work together for 4 years.
- golfingsince

They’re not forced to work together though, they are just forced to not call an election. Someone a lot smarter than me will have to come up with a solution. Our system is flawed, but every other system is flawed as well.

They’re not forced to work together though, they are just forced to not call an election. Someone a lot smarter than me will have to come up with a solution. Our system is flawed, but every other system is flawed as well.
- CubanBuffet

Thus the dilemma.
A strong batch of mushroom tea could be a starting point. Get the dialogue going.

I’d like to point out that Pearson led successive minority governments and arguably accomplished as much as any other PM in history. He’s widely considered one of Canada’s finest PM’s.

I’d like to point out that Pearson led successive minority governments and arguably accomplished as much as any other PM in history. He’s widely considered one of Canada’s finest PM’s.
- golfingsince

I think people are further apart now, and less willing to compromise. But maybe that’s just me being cynical. Or getting old.

Thus the dilemma.
A strong batch of mushroom tea could be a starting point. Get the dialogue going.
- Marwood

We all see the same floating colours, man.

I think people are further apart now, and less willing to compromise. But maybe that’s just me being cynical. Or getting old.
- CubanBuffet

I think back then they weren't worried about how many retweets or likes they got.

So, Husky Energy, which announced a layoff, well before the federal election, has now laid off employees, and Albertans blame the election results.
I guess they don't quite understand this commodity price thing.

So, Husky Energy, which announced a layoff, well before the federal election, has now laid off employees, and Albertans blame the election results.
I guess they don't quite understand this commodity price thing.
- Reubenkincade

it rained here this morning. Fcuking trudope at it again!

it rained here this morning. Fcuking trudope at it again!
- RealityChecker

As I mentioned before you'd have to adjust the way we call elections. Minority governments would have a minimum term so that they wouldn't be able to call elections every 6 months to 2 years based on political climate. If you're going to overhaul the the electoral system, then you might as well have fixed elections of every four years. That would bring more stability as the parties would be forced to work together for 4 years.
- golfingsince

That is a false #narrative propagated by the PR opponents.

That is a false #narrative propagated by the PR opponents.

- belcherbd

and 4 out of the 23 elections held in canada happened in a 7 year period. this was only 10 years ago.

numbers are fun!

and 4 out of the 23 elections held in canada happened in a 7 year period. this was only 10 years ago.

numbers are fun!
- RealityChecker

You mean when 2 subsequent minority governments were formed in a first past the post system?

Good thing we don't have PR....

The larger point being one system doesn't necessarily create more elections.

You mean when 2 subsequent minority governments were formed in a first past the post system?

Good thing we don't have PR....

The larger point being one system doesn't necessarily create more elections.
- belcherbd

that system (PR) and the current trend in politics (over the last 20 years which includes the 4 aforementioned elections) will create more elections or an inefficient/ineffective government... which is my opinion.

it rained here this morning. Fcuking trudope at it again!
- RealityChecker

This article is a couple of years old but it's an interesting read.

https://www.theglobeandma...cal-mess/article36680619/