Being a plus player on this team speaks volumes for itself...
- Bob Habib

Time will tell but some of the underlying numbers say good things about Cates
- Bob Habib

There are 13 Flyers forwards with at least 300 mins played this season... here's where Cates ranks in the following on-ice categories:

Shot attempts for per 60 11th
Shot attempts against per 60 4th

Scoring chances for per 60 11th
Scoring chances against per 60 6th

Expected goals per 60 10th
Expected goals against per 60 5th

Goals for per 60 8th
Goals against per 60 2nd

On-ice shooting % 5th
One-ice save % 2nd


And here are his individual numbers:

Goals per 60 10th
Assists per 60 6th
Points per 60 8th

Shots per 60 13th
Expected goals per 60 9th
Scoring chances for per 60 10th

Takeaways per 60 1st



This is pretty much the picture of a kid who's advanced defensively but he's a lag offensively.

This isn't a Coots or Danault situation where there are strong underlying offensive numbers and actual point production is being depressed by usage and linemates. Cates is getting 1st-line minutes with 1st-line quality linemates for most of the season and his production is relatively poor.

It's like playing Shjon Podein on your top line for the entire season and being excited that he scrabbled together 30-points.

Maybe Cates blossoms offensively at some point... who knows. But right now he's a lag offensively and not a suitable top-six C.

For what he was asked to do, and who he's been playing against all year. I think he's done a great job. plus player on the team as well.
- Peter Richards

This is exactly what I fear for this team.

Cates playing (because someone has too) in this case due to injuries player x plays in roll wouldn’t normally be in. Or scores points wouldn’t normally.


Gets contract not consummated with true player placement. So basically over paying for player x.

Fast forward into the rebuild and when the contracts come up for top end players or moves wanted to be made to take next steps you get cockblocked by deals prior for these cates type players.

There are 13 Flyers forwards with at least 300 mins played this season... here's where Cates ranks in the following on-ice categories:

Shot attempts for per 60 11th
Shot attempts against per 60 4th

Scoring chances for per 60 11th
Scoring chances against per 60 6th

Expected goals per 60 10th
Expected goals against per 60 5th

Goals for per 60 8th
Goals against per 60 2nd

On-ice shooting % 5th
One-ice save % 2nd


And here are his individual numbers:

Goals per 60 10th
Assists per 60 6th
Points per 60 8th

Shots per 60 13th
Expected goals per 60 9th
Scoring chances for per 60 10th

Takeaways per 60 1st



This is pretty much the picture of a kid who's advanced defensively but he's a lag offensively.

This isn't a Coots or Danault situation where there are strong underlying offense numbers and actual point production is being depressed by usage and linemates. Cates is getting 1st-line minutes with 1st-line quality linemates for most of the season and his production is relatively poor.

It's like playing Shjon Podein on your top line for the entire season and being excited that he scrabbled together 30-points.

Maybe Cates blossoms offensively at some point... who knows. But right now he's a lag offensively and not a suitable top-six C.
- Tomahawk

He got selke votes…

Coots lagged offensively too for years….

He’s the next coots.

Actually Bergeron

There are 13 Flyers forwards with at least 300 mins played this season... here's where Cates ranks in the following on-ice categories:

Shot attempts for per 60 11th
Shot attempts against per 60 4th

Scoring chances for per 60 11th
Scoring chances against per 60 6th

Expected goals per 60 10th
Expected goals against per 60 5th

Goals for per 60 8th
Goals against 60 2nd

On-ice shooting % 5th
One-ice save % 2nd


And here are his individual numbers:

Goals per 60 10th
Assists per 60 6th
Points per 60 8th

Shots per 60 13th
Expected goals per 60 9th
Scoring chances for per 60 10th

Takeaways per 60 1st



This is pretty much the picture of a kid who's advanced defensively but he's a lag offensively.

This isn't a Coots or Danault situation where there are strong underlying offense numbers and actual point production is being depressed by usage and linemates. Cates is getting 1st-line minutes with 1st-line quality linemates for most of the season and his production is relatively poor.

It's like playing Shjon Podein on your top line for the entire season and being excited that he scrabbled together 30-points.

Maybe Cates blossoms offensively at some point... who knows. But right now he's a lag offensively and not a suitable top-six C.
- Tomahawk

my bad maybe it was goals against. compare his number to coots his first or second year. what you posted says he is doing his job in shutting down the other top lines effectively. also keep in mind on our team they are playing first line wingers. most would not be 1st line on other teams. only tk. (depending on the team)

He got selke votes…

Coots lagged offensively too for years….

He’s the next coots.

Actually Bergeron
- SMS4016

Mjl approves this message

There are 13 Flyers forwards with at least 300 mins played this season... here's where Cates ranks in the following on-ice categories:

Shot attempts for per 60 11th
Shot attempts against per 60 4th

Scoring chances for per 60 11th
Scoring chances against per 60 6th

Expected goals per 60 10th
Expected goals against per 60 5th

Goals for per 60 8th
Goals against per 60 2nd

On-ice shooting % 5th
One-ice save % 2nd


And here are his individual numbers:

Goals per 60 10th
Assists per 60 6th
Points per 60 8th

Shots per 60 13th
Expected goals per 60 9th
Scoring chances for per 60 10th

Takeaways per 60 1st



This is pretty much the picture of a kid who's advanced defensively but he's a lag offensively.

This isn't a Coots or Danault situation where there are strong underlying offensive numbers and actual point production is being depressed by usage and linemates. Cates is getting 1st-line minutes with 1st-line quality linemates for most of the season and his production is relatively poor.

It's like playing Shjon Podein on your top line for the entire season and being excited that he scrabbled together 30-points.

Maybe Cates blossoms offensively at some point... who knows. But right now he's a lag offensively and not a suitable top-six C.
- Tomahawk

also what are frost and tippets since everyone loves to compare the group. also farabee

Mjl approves this message
- SMS4016

So if Provy gets moved, do they look to lock up York to a multi yr extension, similisr to Ghost many years ago. Feanor brought up this idea. I do like the idea.
- Trox88

Sure. 5 years 12.5 mil

There are 13 Flyers forwards with at least 300 mins played this season... here's where Cates ranks in the following on-ice categories:

Shot attempts for per 60 11th
Shot attempts against per 60 4th

Scoring chances for per 60 11th
Scoring chances against per 60 6th

Expected goals per 60 10th
Expected goals against per 60 5th

Goals for per 60 8th
Goals against per 60 2nd

On-ice shooting % 5th
One-ice save % 2nd


And here are his individual numbers:

Goals per 60 10th
Assists per 60 6th
Points per 60 8th

Shots per 60 13th
Expected goals per 60 9th
Scoring chances for per 60 10th

Takeaways per 60 1st



This is pretty much the picture of a kid who's advanced defensively but he's a lag offensively.

This isn't a Coots or Danault situation where there are strong underlying offensive numbers and actual point production is being depressed by usage and linemates. Cates is getting 1st-line minutes with 1st-line quality linemates for most of the season and his production is relatively poor.

It's like playing Shjon Podein on your top line for the entire season and being excited that he scrabbled together 30-points.

Maybe Cates blossoms offensively at some point... who knows. But right now he's a lag offensively and not a suitable top-six C.
- Tomahawk

yeah rookie, playing first line minutes and never played the position, probably adds a little context to the numbers

my bad maybe it was goals against. compare his number to coots his first or second year. what you posted says he is doing his job in shutting down the other top lines effectively.
- Peter Richards

Here’s a little secret about nhl.

For the most part if you truly want to shut down (for the most part) and obviously not always a particular line you can. You can be pretty successful doing it in of itself. By sacrificing all offense.

Bad teams try this to keep games close.

Sure. 5 years 12.5 mil
- Just5

Would you do 8/32 mil?

There are 13 Flyers forwards with at least 300 mins played this season... here's where Cates ranks in the following on-ice categories:

Shot attempts for per 60 11th
Shot attempts against per 60 4th

Scoring chances for per 60 11th
Scoring chances against per 60 6th

Expected goals per 60 10th
Expected goals against per 60 5th

Goals for per 60 8th
Goals against per 60 2nd

On-ice shooting % 5th
One-ice save % 2nd


And here are his individual numbers:

Goals per 60 10th
Assists per 60 6th
Points per 60 8th

Shots per 60 13th
Expected goals per 60 9th
Scoring chances for per 60 10th

Takeaways per 60 1st



This is pretty much the picture of a kid who's advanced defensively but he's a lag offensively.

This isn't a Coots or Danault situation where there are strong underlying offensive numbers and actual point production is being depressed by usage and linemates. Cates is getting 1st-line minutes with 1st-line quality linemates for most of the season and his production is relatively poor.

It's like playing Shjon Podein on your top line for the entire season and being excited that he scrabbled together 30-points.

Maybe Cates blossoms offensively at some point... who knows. But right now he's a lag offensively and not a suitable top-six C.
- Tomahawk

I can't see Cates finding a scoring touch. Not ever. But the fact he can shut down the opposition of top lines is impressive. He won't ever out yp the numbers of a 1C and we all know that. Hopefully he eventually gets slotted correctly and can be a shut down 3C in the future..
Either way, his defensive side of the sport can't be ignored. But damn do I wish he had a better shot and better hands

my bad maybe it was goals against. compare his number to coots his first or second year. what you posted says he is doing his job in shutting down the other top lines effectively.
- Peter Richards

I don't know about shutting anybody down but he's playing well defensively. It's clear from watching him that he's got strong instincts on that side of the puck. Example we talked about in the last thread: how quickly he covered for Risto on the Boldy goal.

But a team that struggles to score and has a general lack of talent can't afford to hold their top players back with an offensively ineffective 1C. Cates should be 3C, or even better 3LW... as part of a shutdown line. But Torts is stubborn so he's probably gonna keep hammering that square peg into a round hole.

Please. We all know Coatesy is out because his bosses are on their way out.

Would you do 8/32 mil?
- SMS4016

not yet, i see more of a scott laughton contract if longer term. but could easily see a bridge contract as well. 2 years at 1.5-2.

also what are frost and tippets since everyone loves to compare the group. also farabee
- Peter Richards

You can see for yourself, it's all right here:
https://www.naturalstattr...ines=single&draftteam=ALL

Would you do 8/32 mil?
- SMS4016

I wouldn’t. Need to see more.

just read an article that said Cates got some selke votes. good for the kid. his defensive play has been impressive.

also didn't realize he was 2nd on the team in 5v5 scoring over 60.
- Peter Richards

no no no

don't you know it was WRONG to play him at C?? That it's a huge mistake!? That Tort's is not playing him correctly??

I don't know about shutting anybody down but he's playing well defensively. It's clear from watching him that he's got strong instincts on that side of the puck. Example we talked about in the last thread: how quickly he covered for Risto on the Boldy goal.

But a team that struggles to score and has a general lack of talent can't afford to hold their top players back with an offensively ineffective 1C. Cates should be 3C, or even better 3LW... as part of a shutdown line. But Torts is stubborn so he's probably gonna keep hammering that square peg into a round hole.
- Tomahawk

so guessing you'd rather have frost as the 1c. imo he would've been outmatched and caved defensively.. the team wasn't in a good position without coots as the 1c. hayes can't handle it either. not a frost hater. want more from him. just wish we could combine the two. i would like to see cates on coots wing with tk

Please. We all know Coatesy is out because his bosses are on their way out.
- hereticpride

i think i heard something about a health scare mid season and, while he's doing fine now, he's hangin' em up

You can see for yourself, it's all right here:
https://www.naturalstattr...ines=single&draftteam=ALL
- Tomahawk

thanks. you've given me this site before and i do go there. there's another one you use but have no clue what it is.

I don't know about shutting anybody down but he's playing well defensively. It's clear from watching him that he's got strong instincts on that side of the puck. Example we talked about in the last thread: how quickly he covered for Risto on the Boldy goal.

But a team that struggles to score and has a general lack of talent can't afford to hold their top players back with an offensively ineffective 1C. Cates should be 3C, or even better 3LW... as part of a shutdown line. But Torts is stubborn so he's probably gonna keep hammering that square peg into a round hole.
- Tomahawk

I was a big fan of keeping Cates with Tippett and Frost, but I am ok this season and seeing what they have. I agree you cant have a first line center producing at the rate Cates is, but on the other hand, he is scoring points at a good rate for a rookie and this is year 1. Yeah I know, he is playing with 1st line players, did the Flyers really have a bonified 1st line this season? TK ok. He will not, should not be a 1C but he surprised so far. I think it gets down to will he take a step forward next year, how big? Probably more important, what is the biggest team need, this season it was center

so guessing you'd rather have frost as the 1c. imo he would've been outmatched and caved defensively.. the team wasn't in a good position without coots as the 1c. hayes can't handle it either. not a frost hater. want more from him. just wish we could combine the two. i would like to see cates on coots wing with tk
- Peter Richards

Hayes, for all his warts, has always clearly been the team's only option at 1C.

He got selke votes…

Coots lagged offensively too for years….

He’s the next coots.

Actually Bergeron
- SMS4016

Until he got off the 3rd and 4th lines and started getting 1st line minutes like Cates.