Less about delusional fans and more about the 3-5 players you invested 4-6 more years of icing a competitive team to. You think that signing Sid, Geno, and Letang the team isn't going to push to be competitive? If the owners felt the era was over, they would have let them walk. They didn't, because they believe this group can compete. Them's the break.

Are they wrong? Probably, but I don't care about that. I'd rather watch 3 of the best to ever put on the skating penguin continue playing on the Pens.

Rebuilds can take 12 years+, ask the Sabres how that's going. I'd rather watch competitive hockey with my favorite players for another 3-4 years before turning off the games in the 2nd period because it's constantly 5-1. Being a fan through that poop was brutal in high school/college.
- j.boyd919

Except they aren't competitive and haven't been for 5+ years. They aren't really pushing to be competitive by holding on to their 1st round draft picks the last two years and waiting until Hextall totally screwed up the cap for next year. The owners are idiots.

Did you really enjoy watching this past season? I thought it was pretty brutal. Sure, there were some moments, but the bad far outweighed the good. Like it or not, the rebuild has already started. Do you honestly think this season will be better than last season?

Except they aren't competitive and haven't been for 5+ years. They aren't really pushing to be competitive by holding on to their 1st round draft picks the last two years and waiting until Hextall totally screwed up the cap for next year. The owners are idiots.

Did you really enjoy watching this past season? I thought it was pretty brutal. Sure, there were some moments, but the bad far outweighed the good. Like it or not, the rebuild has already started. Do you honestly think this season will be better than last season?
- Hockey66

You're telling me that fighting for a playoff spot, being 1 point out of a wild card spot isn't competitive?


Sid and Geno both being top 15 in production of centers in the league isn't competitive?

If the Penguins had an adequate bottom 6 and goaltending, they likely would have been in the playoffs this year.

The bad that outweighed the good was the mismanagement by the GM that is no longer with them. The Pens have options to improve this team, they just need someone who's got a plan that's not in his head to do it.

This team can absolutely be better than last season with calculated moves from the new GM.

I think you might be the actual delusional fan, given your inability to interpret competitive.

You're telling me that fighting for a playoff spot, being 1 point out of a wild card spot isn't competitive?


Sid and Geno both being top 15 in production of centers in the league isn't competitive?

If the Penguins had an adequate bottom 6 and goaltending, they likely would have been in the playoffs this year.

The bad that outweighed the good was the mismanagement by the GM that is no longer with them. The Pens have options to improve this team, they just need someone who's got a plan that's not in his head to do it.

This team can absolutely be better than last season with calculated moves from the new GM.

I think you might be the actual delusional fan, given your inability to interpret competitive.
- j.boyd919

Ok

Except they aren't competitive and haven't been for 5+ years. They aren't really pushing to be competitive by holding on to their 1st round draft picks the last two years and waiting until Hextall totally screwed up the cap for next year. The owners are idiots.

Did you really enjoy watching this past season? I thought it was pretty brutal. Sure, there were some moments, but the bad far outweighed the good. Like it or not, the rebuild has already started. Do you honestly think this season will be better than last season?
- Hockey66

There's a difference in contender and competitive. Pens have certainly been competitive in that time frame, even this past season with missing playoffs by 3 points. You think when Jarry was best goalie in the league statistically for two months straight they wouldn't of had 3 more points if he didn't get injured in Winter Classic? How about if they weren't missing 3 and 4 starting D-man a lot of nights after the calendar turned to 2023? ...when it did turn to 2023 the Pens were 4th overall in the whole league.

How about the strangle hold they had on the Rangers last playoffs, despite using a 3rd string goalie and missing Rak, until Sid went down in late in 2nd period of game 5? At the time he went down they were up 3-1 in the game and 3-1 in the series. If Sid doesn't go down they win that series against the team that made the ECF and were only two wins from the cup final.

Having said all of that, I am a bit weary of trading any picks now. As I've mentioned before, for me to be on board with trading 1sts I need to see some of the dead weight moved out and I think that will be a tall task for a new GM.

There's a difference in contender and competitive. Pens have certainly been competitive in that time frame, even this past season with missing playoffs by 3 points. You think when Jarry was best goalie in the league statistically for two months straight they wouldn't of had 3 more points if he didn't get injured in Winter Classic? How about if they weren't missing 3 and 4 starting D-man a lot of nights after the calendar turned to 2023? ...when it did turn to 2023 the Pens were 4th overall in the whole league.

How about the strangle hold they had on the Rangers last playoffs, despite using a 3rd string goalie and missing Rak, until Sid went down in late in 2nd period of game 5? At the time he went down they were up 3-1 in the game and 3-1 in the series. If Sid doesn't go down they win that series against the team that made the ECF and were only two wins from the cup final.

Having said all of that, I am a bit weary of trading any picks now. As I've mentioned before, for me to be on board with trading 1sts I need to see some of the dead weight moved out and I think that will be a tall task for a new GM.
- MattStrat

In your opinion, what's the dead weight that needs moved? For me it's just Granlund and Rutta. They are stuck with Carter, although the new GM should absolutely ask him if he'd waive his NMC for a trade.

Granlund should be bought out, that's a not brainer.

I think a team would probably take Rutta for something, even if it's a B-level prospect, I think they can get out of his contract because it's not terrible, just not needed.

Buyout Granlund, trade Rutta, let Dumo, Kulikov, Bones, Heinen walk and they have money to play with.

In your opinion, what's the dead weight that needs moved? For me it's just Granlund and Rutta. They are stuck with Carter, although the new GM should absolutely ask him if he'd waive his NMC for a trade.

Granlund should be bought out, that's a not brainer.

I think a team would probably take Rutta for something, even if it's a B-level prospect, I think they can get out of his contract because it's not terrible, just not needed.

Buyout Granlund, trade Rutta, let Dumo, Kulikov, Bones, Heinen walk and they have money to play with.
- j.boyd919

Basically your whole last sentence hahaha....I mean, some of these guys would have to be resigned, and wont be, but I think the one we are in danger of returning is Dumo, just at a smaller hit. I think his agent will push for him to stay there.

I agree with what you said about Granlund and Rutta, it is possible to get rid of them....just hope that the new GM makes it happen.

EDIT: cant roll with same goalies, either. I'm in the Jarry at similar cap hit camp and replace CDS with someone better...but I also know the goalie market this offseason is thin. If Jarry wants a raise say peace out to him.

You're telling me that fighting for a playoff spot, being 1 point out of a wild card spot isn't competitive?


Sid and Geno both being top 15 in production of centers in the league isn't competitive?

If the Penguins had an adequate bottom 6 and goaltending, they likely would have been in the playoffs this year.

The bad that outweighed the good was the mismanagement by the GM that is no longer with them. The Pens have options to improve this team, they just need someone who's got a plan that's not in his head to do it.

This team can absolutely be better than last season with calculated moves from the new GM.

I think you might be the actual delusional fan, given your inability to interpret competitive.
- j.boyd919

They could have been better this season with the same players in better calculated spots and roles. Coach sucks.

Would people consider moving 14 overall for Spencer Knight? I think it'd be unlikely given he has some personal issues so not sure what his future is, but to me, a move involving a young player coming to Pittsburgh for the 14th overall pick makes the most sense. No point taking a chance that our pick works out in 3 years.

Except they aren't competitive and haven't been for 5+ years. They aren't really pushing to be competitive by holding on to their 1st round draft picks the last two years and waiting until Hextall totally screwed up the cap for next year. The owners are idiots.

Did you really enjoy watching this past season? I thought it was pretty brutal. Sure, there were some moments, but the bad far outweighed the good. Like it or not, the rebuild has already started. Do you honestly think this season will be better than last season?
- Hockey66

They've been competitive. They've lost multiple series being the better team but losing the goaltending battle.

With the right GM, I think this team could compete. A lot of moves would need to go our way, but people need to stop pretending we are a terrible team that hasnt had a chance since 2018. Are our Cup days over? Yes, too many teams are younger and faster. Does that mean we should blow it up and do a full rebuild? No. People underestimate how brutal rebuilds are. Our last rebuild went perfectly. Due to changes in the draft lottery, a rebuild like that is next to impossible.

They could have been better this season with the same players in better calculated spots and roles. Coach sucks.
- Grinder47

Definitely agree, Carter should have been in the press box for like 65 games.

They've been competitive. They've lost multiple series being the better team but losing the goaltending battle.

With the right GM, I think this team could compete. A lot of moves would need to go our way, but people need to stop pretending we are a terrible team that hasnt had a chance since 2018. Are our Cup days over? Yes, too many teams are younger and faster. Does that mean we should blow it up and do a full rebuild? No. People underestimate how brutal rebuilds are. Our last rebuild went perfectly. Due to changes in the draft lottery, a rebuild like that is next to impossible.
- SuperHenderson13

Exactly. Should enjoy the last 3-4 years of Sid/Geno/Letang and try to make this team as competitive as they can for that time period. Deal with the rebuild when they retire. It's that simple.

It's almost as if FSG is waiting to see what happens with the Leafs series haha....

Would people consider moving 14 overall for Spencer Knight? I think it'd be unlikely given he has some personal issues so not sure what his future is, but to me, a move involving a young player coming to Pittsburgh for the 14th overall pick makes the most sense. No point taking a chance that our pick works out in 3 years.
- SuperHenderson13

If the 14th can bring in a young effective player I'd be down. Perhaps they'll take Granlund as a sweetener too....

They've been competitive. They've lost multiple series being the better team but losing the goaltending battle.

With the right GM, I think this team could compete. A lot of moves would need to go our way, but people need to stop pretending we are a terrible team that hasnt had a chance since 2018. Are our Cup days over? Yes, too many teams are younger and faster. Does that mean we should blow it up and do a full rebuild? No. People underestimate how brutal rebuilds are. Our last rebuild went perfectly. Due to changes in the draft lottery, a rebuild like that is next to impossible.
- SuperHenderson13

Ok, so a first round exit every year until Crosby and Malkin are 40 years old? Rebuilds go better when you sell off your assets before they are worthless. That's what smart teams on a downward trajectory do. I could see the Pens rebuild lasting 20 years with this middle of the road crap and an ownership/management group who doesn't seem to know what they are doing. Personally, you are either competing for a Cup or building toward a Cup. The Pens are now building toward another first round disappointment, best-case scenario.

Exactly. Should enjoy the last 3-4 years of Sid/Geno/Letang and try to make this team as competitive as they can for that time period. Deal with the rebuild when they retire. It's that simple.
- j.boyd919

I found it hard to watch the big 3 try to drag this team to wins, only to be let down in the end, either by the bottom six, the goalies, or the coach, or all of the above. Are you ok if they never make it past the first round and all of their assets end up being worthless? Seems like a weird nostalgia fixation to me.

How are the big bad B's gonna look next season?....this is pretty crazy...

I found it hard to watch the big 3 try to drag this team to wins, only to be let down in the end, either by the bottom six, the goalies, or the coach, or all of the above. Are you ok if they never make it past the first round and all of their assets end up being worthless? Seems like a weird nostalgia fixation to me.
- Hockey66

So you admit the guys you think should be traded for assets, and kickstart a rebuild, are not the problem? What if a new GM could improve the bottom 6 and goalies?

If the 14th can bring in a young effective player I'd be down. Perhaps they'll take Granlund as a sweetener too....

- MattStrat

Everyone on CF is doing 14, Petry, and a mid round pick to DET for 17

I found it hard to watch the big 3 try to drag this team to wins, only to be let down in the end, either by the bottom six, the goalies, or the coach, or all of the above. Are you ok if they never make it past the first round and all of their assets end up being worthless? Seems like a weird nostalgia fixation to me.
- Hockey66

Does Detroit going 0 for 7 in the lotto and not ever picking higher than 4 at least make you wonder why you’re in such a rush to start the rebuild?

Ok, so a first round exit every year until Crosby and Malkin are 40 years old? Rebuilds go better when you sell off your assets before they are worthless. That's what smart teams on a downward trajectory do. I could see the Pens rebuild lasting 20 years with this middle of the road crap and an ownership/management group who doesn't seem to know what they are doing. Personally, you are either competing for a Cup or building toward a Cup. The Pens are now building toward another first round disappointment, best-case scenario.
- Hockey66

So give us your alternative. I choose to live in reality. Crosby/Malkin/Letang all have NMCs and arent going to leave, especially Crosby. When Malkin/Letang signed their contracts, that was to finish their careers in Pittsburgh.

If you want to rebuild with those 3 on the roster, fine. But the rebuild will be greatly hampered because those guys are going to play hard and likely at a high level. When you rebuild, you need to be terrible, think Chicago this past season. If you want to rebuild while constantly finishing middle of the pack, you will be looking at years of frustration when you consistently miss out on the top prospects.

The new GM's job should be clearing out the dead weight in this organization. If you do that and have millions of dollars to spend, maybe not this year, but with the cap going up once the escrow is squared away... i truly believe you can build a contending team capable of winning a round or two.

People in Pittsburgh have become numb to the realities of having a superstar/franchise player. We've had one mostly since 1984. We might never get another one in our lifetimes. I am going to sit back and enjoy every second of Crosby/Malkin/Letang.

So you admit the guys you think should be traded for assets, and kickstart a rebuild, are not the problem? What if a new GM could improve the bottom 6 and goalies?
- MattStrat

They were not the problem last season but I think things went about as well as they possibly could in terms of production and health. I expect a drop-off of varying degrees by them and every other player over 30, which feels like half of the team. There are just too many hurdles to overcome even if the new GM is somehow able to work some magic around the dire cap situation, close to zero help from the minors, and be able to find a goalie in a competitive goalie market.

It's almost as if FSG is waiting to see what happens with the Leafs series haha....
- MattStrat

Serious credit to them as to how quiet they've kept the search. Even the local guys havent done a lot of reporting on it.

I think Dubas would be a really good GM here, but I think we need to give a long look to this Assistant GM in Carolina.

A lot of Rangers fans/pundits are convinced Dubas will be hired by Pittsburgh, he'll fire Sullivan, hire Sheldon Keefe and then the Rangers will hire Mike Sullivan.

If Dubas leaves Toronto, it'll be because of Keefe's failures to adjust. Why on earth would he downgrade coaches.

Everyone on CF is doing 14, Petry, and a mid round pick to DET for 17
- Feds91Stammer

Oh man thats horrible. I lean towards wanting to keep Petry. Yes, his cap hit is high and he didnt play to it for the most part, but I dont think he was anywhere near as bad as some are making out....so I definitely wouldn't be packaging a 14th and another pick with him to get a 17th hahaha crazy

Serious credit to them as to how quiet they've kept the search. Even the local guys havent done a lot of reporting on it.

I think Dubas would be a really good GM here, but I think we need to give a long look to this Assistant GM in Carolina.
- SuperHenderson13

I agree on both accounts.