See Buffalo, Edmonton, Toronto or Philly. You talk in absolutes about rebuilds with no possible way of knowing you're right.
- MattStrat

The Philadelphia rebuild hasn't begun yet, because Chuck Fletcher kept trying to win now with a terrible team.

The Philadelphia rebuild hasn't begun yet, because Chuck Fletcher kept trying to win now with a terrible team.
- jmatchett383

Yeah I thought about editing and erasing them right after I posted it as they haven't really done an official tear down haha...then totally forgot I even posted that until you responded here this morning.

The leafs remind me of pens-lite. A little softer than the prime pens. Big 4 instead of 3. I don’t know what a poho does but idk if I want dubas. Seems to similar to me.
- 10inchTerror

I said the same thing... The leafs looked like the Pens pre-Rutherford. Pre-Honrqvist for that matter. Lots of perimeter play. Always looking for the perfect play.

I said the same thing... The leafs looked like the Pens pre-Rutherford. Pre-Honrqvist for that matter. Lots of perimeter play. Always looking for the perfect play.
- madmike71

I think they did the right thing by getting ROR, he's the closest thing there is to a modern day Guerin-type; the vet who's been there before and knows what it takes. But still glad as hell they lost.

I think they did the right thing by getting ROR, he's the closest thing there is to a modern day Guerin-type; the vet who's been there before and knows what it takes. But still glad as hell they lost.
- jmatchett383

Is it possible that ROR is a better all-around player than Tavares?

Is it possible that ROR is a better all-around player than Tavares?
- Hockey66

Of course he is. Tavares, while more offensively gifted, was about average without the puck, and never seemed to get his nose dirty. Granted, he scored the biggest goal in 20 years for the Leafs (not a lofty standard), but I didn't really notice him in round 2, while I noticed O'Reilly on every shift. Tavares fits into that passive, fancy, perimeter type player than is indicative of the TM style. I was thinking ROR may have been able to change that, but id didn't take.

I think they did the right thing by getting ROR, he's the closest thing there is to a modern day Guerin-type; the vet who's been there before and knows what it takes. But still glad as hell they lost.
- jmatchett383

Yep. I thought O'Reilly would get them further. I watched most of those games (not closely).. It just seemed like the Leafs lost pretty badly on the boards and then one of their stars would resort to trying to beat 5 guys on the rush by himself. When they did get a grade A chance, Bob was making saves.

FLA and Carolina is going to be good. Looking forward to it.

Of course he is. Tavares, while more offensively gifted, was about average without the puck, and never seemed to get his nose dirty. Granted, he scored the biggest goal in 20 years for the Leafs (not a lofty standard), but I didn't really notice him in round 2, while I noticed O'Reilly on every shift. Tavares fits into that passive, fancy, perimeter type player than is indicative of the TM style. I was thinking ROR may have been able to change that, but id didn't take.
- jmatchett383

I agree. Also agree with SuperHenderson13 that it was stupid for them to sign him to that contract. Scoring is nice and all, but give me a complete player who scores a little (or even a fair bit) less any day of the week. Also, a center who doesn't play defense isn't much of a center in my book.

Yep. I thought O'Reilly would get them further. I watched most of those games (not closely).. It just seemed like the Leafs lost pretty badly on the boards and then one of their stars would resort to trying to beat 5 guys on the rush by himself. When they did get a grade A chance, Bob was making saves.

FLA and Carolina is going to be good. Looking forward to it.
- madmike71

I just realized the last four teams are all warm-weather locales, 3 of which are in the south.

I agree. Also agree with SuperHenderson13 that it was stupid for them to sign him to that contract. Scoring is nice and all, but give me a complete player who scores a little (or even a fair bit) less any day of the week. Also, a center who doesn't play defense isn't much of a center in my book.
- Hockey66

Just curious, what's your stance on prime-era Malkin? Not that I think Tavares was ever as good, just asking.

What I noticed with Crosby, who was nothing more than a pure-offensive dynamo early in his career, was that he started backchecking harder and wasn't afraid to drive the net when he needed to after they lost in 2008; he seemed to realize exactly what it really took. I don't see that from any of the Big 4.

I just realized the last four teams are all warm-weather locales, 3 of which are in the south.
- Hockey66

And if SEA wins 3/4 will be states with no state income tax.

Yep. I thought O'Reilly would get them further. I watched most of those games (not closely).. It just seemed like the Leafs lost pretty badly on the boards and then one of their stars would resort to trying to beat 5 guys on the rush by himself. When they did get a grade A chance, Bob was making saves.

FLA and Carolina is going to be good. Looking forward to it.
- madmike71

I watched pretty much the whole series. Leafs weren't all perimeter. Bob finally played like a 10+ mill paid goalie when it mattered the most, thats the biggest reason for the Leafs loss. Also, for whatever reason it was like they didnt really show up for game 3 at all. It reminded me of game 4 for the Pens vs the Isles in 2021 when the Pens had a 2-1 series lead.

Game 1




Game 2



Game 5



Majority of their chances in 3 of the 5 games were right at the net. Bob was fantastic in this series.

Just curious, what's your stance on prime-era Malkin? Not that I think Tavares was ever as good, just asking.

What I noticed with Crosby, who was nothing more than a pure-offensive dynamo early in his career, was that he started backchecking harder and wasn't afraid to drive the net when he needed to after they lost in 2008; he seemed to realize exactly what it really took. I don't see that from any of the Big 4.
- jmatchett383

A mixed bag for sure. Definitely had to have a defensively responsible forward on his line. Pretty good at board and puck battles but not so great at tracking back. He also seems to have given it more effort as his career has gone on. Nothing like Crosby, of course. The good far outweighs the bad but not what I think a center should be. Great player, but not a great center, IMO.

A mixed bag for sure. Definitely had to have a defensively responsible forward on his line. Pretty good at board and puck battles but not so great at tracking back. He also seems to have given it more effort as his career has gone on. Nothing like Crosby, of course. The good far outweighs the bad but not what I think a center should be. Great player, but not a great center, IMO.
- Hockey66

Might be time to move him to wing...might

Might be time to move him to wing...might
- MattStrat

Definitely. And Jeff Carter to 2C will put us over the top. I kid, I kid.

Definitely. And Jeff Carter to 2C will put us over the top. I kid, I kid.
- Hockey66

hahah well...this would be after Dubas is hired and he signs ROR for 2nd C....Geno can go top 6 wing and Carter will go 4th line winger. Other than that shed the rest of the old dudes however possible and sign/trade for some younger guys. Easy peasy path....to being....competitive hahaha

PS I had a good nights sleep last night and a nice breakfast this morning.

hahah well...this would be after Dubas is hired and he signs ROR for 2nd C....Geno can go top 6 wing and Carter will go 4th line winger. Other than that shed the rest of the old dudes however possible and sign/trade for some younger guys. Easy peasy path....to being....competitive hahaha

PS I had a good nights sleep last night and a nice breakfast this morning.
- MattStrat

Haha, thanks for chuckle. Now I'm off to bed.

A mixed bag for sure. Definitely had to have a defensively responsible forward on his line. Pretty good at board and puck battles but not so great at tracking back. He also seems to have given it more effort as his career has gone on. Nothing like Crosby, of course. The good far outweighs the bad but not what I think a center should be. Great player, but not a great center, IMO.
- Hockey66

Pretty fair assessment, I'd agree.

For each of the past 3 years, he's made moves to make his team better even with 33% of the cap tied up in 3 players.

I dont believe in punishing the GM because the star players that make big money decide to go missing in the important moments.

Honestly, the Leafs shouldnt have signed Tavares or else they should've traded one of Nylander or Marner. They could've followed a Penguins model of a top 1C and 2C punch with solid bottom 6 depth. Having those 4 players pretty much be your team wasnt going to work if even 2 of them didnt show up in a series. Versus Florida, only 1 of them did.
- SuperHenderson13

I would give him a pass if he wasn't the one who signed them to those contracts. The Tavares contract was extra terrible because it set the standard for what Marner and Matthews would get paid in their contracts. Between Marner and Tavares you had two hometown players who not only didnt take a discount, they both took more than market value.

I would give him a pass if he wasn't the one who signed them to those contracts. The Tavares contract was extra terrible because it set the standard for what Marner and Matthews would get paid in their contracts. Between Marner and Tavares you had two hometown players who not only didnt take a discount, they both took more than market value.
- MacPatty

When a hometown star player wants to sign with your team, you sign him. I dont blame him for getting a deal done with Tavares. I think Nylander or Marner should've been traded after to balance out the lineup, but I dont blame Dubas for signing JT.

How is it the GM's fault for neither hometown player taking a hometown discount? That is why I said a few blogs ago how lucky we were for Crosby/Malkin not to demand the maximum allowable contract. They both took discounts and we were able to build competitive teams because of it.

I have a feeling Dubas stays in Toronto. He is speaking to the media later today. The only difference is that usually it'd be a joint press conference with Shannan, but both Dubas and Shannan are dong separate press conferences.

Treveling feels like Rutherford redux. Obviously I understand the appeal after Hextal to get another gunslinger in but I’d rather modernize the FO. I’d much prefer him as hockey ops than gm if we go that rout.
- Victoro311

You might be right about Treveling, I do question how things got completely sideways with Sutter. I think navigated the Tkachuk and Gaudreau situations pretty well. And with Pittsburgh not being a prime destination anymore I think there is value in having someone who has experience in that type of situation.

I want someone who can use analytics but doesn't live and die by that approach. Who knows, with top players on favorable contracts, maybe Dubas could do a great job. I definitely want a gunslinger who will make some big, tough trades. I just want someone who will try something different.

Might be time to move him to wing...might
- MattStrat

I've said that for a few years now. Malkin is only going to become less and less effective. It further illustrates the pain of losing McCann. Next season you could've rolled with something like:

Jake-Crosby-Malkin
Rakell-McCann-Rust

(swap Jake with Rakell if you think that top line is too top heavy)

I'm not sure who could be reasonably afforded to be a 2C though. That's a problem.

When a hometown star player wants to sign with your team, you sign him. I dont blame him for getting a deal done with Tavares. I think Nylander or Marner should've been traded after to balance out the lineup, but I dont blame Dubas for signing JT.

How is it the GM's fault for neither hometown player taking a hometown discount? That is why I said a few blogs ago how lucky we were for Crosby/Malkin not to demand the maximum allowable contract. They both took discounts and we were able to build competitive teams because of it.

I have a feeling Dubas stays in Toronto. He is speaking to the media later today. The only difference is that usually it'd be a joint press conference with Shannan, but both Dubas and Shannan are dong separate press conferences.
- SuperHenderson13

I think it is the opposite... if JT really wanted to play to win a cup for his hometown team, he should have taken a discount on his salary knowing he could easily make it up on the marketing side in Toronto. I don't hate him for pushing for max dollars but I do judge Dubas for signing a $9M player for $11M.

Since they probably can't trade Tavares easily, I think Marner is the guy to go (but again, that is a hometown player). I would love to get Nylander, not a perfect player but the Pens could really use a Kessel replacement for the powerplay and he would be great there.

I think it is the opposite... if JT really wanted to play to win a cup for his hometown team, he should have taken a discount on his salary knowing he could easily make it up on the marketing side in Toronto. I don't hate him for pushing for max dollars but I do judge Dubas for signing a $9M player for $11M.

Since they probably can't trade Tavares easily, I think Marner is the guy to go (but again, that is a hometown player). I would love to get Nylander, not a perfect player but the Pens could really use a Kessel replacement for the powerplay and he would be great there.
- MacPatty

Dubas biggest flaw is the stat nerd idea that doesn’t value goaltending.

He got dummied in all his major contract negotiations as well.

Dubas biggest flaw is the stat nerd idea that doesn’t value goaltending.

He got dummied in all his major contract negotiations as well.
- Feds91Stammer

That’s why I think he’d be better suited as a president of hockey ops. Stick to high level ideas and overall directions. Let a more savvy GM make the ground level moves and negotiations.