I could care less what Kypreos says.

Post Dubas firing Elliotte has said nothing about core 4 being moved besides opinions on any destinations.

One thing is for certain and its Shanny not liking Dubas comments about making a massive change with core 4, and that is coming from Shanny.
- Santo_44

Dubas didn't outright say he would, just that it was something the would look at. I got the impression from Shanny that is more than just those comments.. Him telling Dubas not to talk during the end of season press conference, only to have him go out and publically say he's got to think it over and take time to decide.. Then days later coming back and saying I'll do it for more money and more power. The more I read about it, the more I think that Dubas really didn't want to be the Leafs GM anymore

https://twitter.com/frank_seravall/status/1661032332977922049?s=46&t=xdbwDZlJpKsy8vg5wHUWXg

After speaking with a few staff members at MLSE about the apparent rift between Shanahan and Dubas, I was told that it began in the 2021 offseason. Dubas had a deal in place to send a 2021 5th (#153) to Buffalo for Tage Thompson, but it was nixed due to lack of draft capital.


So uh, why did they fire Dubas?
- bryant

Exhibit "B" ....stay off twitter kids!

Fast fall. From the "Wonder-boy" and Messiah..... to the whipping boy in a matter of days. Things can change fast around here fellas!!!! lol.

He was a little stubborn deviating from his "philosophy"....but, I am sure he will surface somewhere before too long.
- hawk35

Actually not even remotely true.

Dubas routinely changed, or more accurately altered, his philosophy.

it makes more sense that Dubas would make some tough but big moves at this point.

but a new GM, why would he come in and (frank) up a 110 point team. hes got runway to milk the team in place
- senstroll

Because the Core 4, as a competitive group in the post-season, are obviously flawed.

There is no way the Leafs will bring in a GM who will be handcuffed by what has come before.

Change is comin', lads. Buckle up!

Really, it's the smart thing and the only thing to say right now. Not saying it necessarily happens but if you end up trading one, so be it. Masai said he wasn't trading DeMar and did it like four days later.
- fifty__missions

I think if a perfect deal comes along Shanny would even do it if he was GM, as Ujuri did.

This notion that the core 4 is being broken up for the sake of change is simply untrue.

It is also incredibly hard to believe a new GM would come in and be okay with a sideways move or a lost trade for the sake of change.

The best chance that as happening was with Dubas.

Keefe chose his Holl to die on and that's exactly what should happen.

There's good coaches available. Sign one of them before someone else does.

That's why I want the GM decided quickly, before all the coaches (Brunette) are interviewed and signed elsewhere.
- GreatGigInTheSky

Give me some Brunette!

Here is the thing, if you were negotiating a contract would they actually say that? This isn't a situation where IN A CONTRACT Dubas is going to his boss and saying "gimme more money, & more power".

His contract was about to be up and that's when you negotiate.

Unless the opening offer was presented as "this is our one and only, best offer take it or leave" then to me it's a poopty way of doing business.

Case in point, I was successful in moving into a higher Mgt role after a job competition. I was offered the role and a salary, I counter offered for more $.

I wasn't fired for asking for more, all they can say is no.

As far as a Team Kyle or Team Shanny - m'eh. I was fine if Dubas wanted to leave, I thought he had done enough in the past 2 years to show he was able to adapt and change his approach & was the right guy to carry on (with a new coach) and make the big change that needed to be made. I also understand it's a business and was ok if MLSE felt differently and decided to fire him. My issue is how this was all handled reeks of MLSE mishandling it Shanny included.

I also really question why Shanny is allowed to continue in his role after a decade if the level of success the team he is responsible for has not met the expectations of the board. He's had 2 GM's now (soon to be 3) and likely soon to be 3 coaches in that time.

And if the stories of the oversight from Shanny is true can't say I'm surprised Dubas wanted more power - also not shocked MLSE didn't give it to him.
- Cush29

To me, Shanahan made it seem like the contract that was presented to Dubas back in March was agreed too and Dubas coming back with different demands was part of the reason the decision was made to let him go..

So, to your point, if a contract was agreed to, I couldn't go back and say, now, I want more.

I don't know if it was his decision or the boards decision to let Kyle go, or how much interference Shanahan ran on Dubas, but it wasn't working between the two of them anymore.. So, something had to be done

Dubas didn't outright say he would, just that it was something the would look at. I got the impression from Shanny that is more than just those comments.. Him telling Dubas not to talk during the end of season press conference, only to have him go out and publically say he's got to think it over and take time to decide.. Then days later coming back and saying I'll do it for more money and more power. The more I read about it, the more I think that Dubas really didn't want to be the Leafs GM anymore
- PatC80

He literally outlined the MT trade as an example...


“What I took from Kyle’s comments [is they] were accurate and honest, which is without making any promises we will look at everything in the organization and try to make decisions that will make us better,” Shanahan explained. “That might not be on the timeline that everybody wants: It might not occur just this summer, it might occur during the season, it might occur on the next trade deadline.

“But just being different doesn't solve something.”


The man in charge of hiring the new GM obviously does not want to break up the core for the sake of it.

I am sure the new GM would absolutely be willing to listen, but its not a lets make the best trade by July 1st.

Because the Core 4, as a competitive group in the post-season, are obviously flawed.

There is no way the Leafs will bring in a GM who will be handcuffed by what has come before.

Change is comin', lads. Buckle up!
- mjones242

I think so too, once a new GM is in place and after Keefe is let go

I could care less what Kypreos says.

Post Dubas firing Elliotte has said nothing about core 4 being moved besides opinions on any destinations.

One thing is for certain and its Shanny not liking Dubas comments about making a massive change with core 4, and that is coming from Shanny.
- Santo_44

So on balance we have Dreger reporting that the Core 4 won't be touched as per the Core 4 themselves post conversations with Shanahan.

We have Friedman and a number of Athletic writers speculating that the core 4 will get broken up.

We have LeBrun bringing Doug Armstrong's name into the mix - a guy under contract for 4 more years.

No one knows a bloody thing. If a qualified GM is interviewing for a position and the boss says, "So the first thing you need to know is that I won't let you trade the following people . . .. " maybe just grab your poop and go. It's not a job you want.

I don't think anything can be guaranteed at all. A new GM and new coach might have a different philosophy on how to achieve more effective team defense and it may require us to move on from some of those core pieces.

Oh boy.
- mjones242

This team absolutely needs a GM who knows how to lose a star forward without getting absolutely anything in return.

This definitely isn't relevant to the leafs current situation.

Treliving. 🤮

To me, Shanahan made it seem like the contract that was presented to Dubas back in March was agreed too and Dubas coming back with different demands was part of the reason the decision was made to let him go..

So, to your point, if a contract was agreed to, I couldn't go back and say, now, I want more.

I don't know if it was his decision or the boards decision to let Kyle go, or how much interference Shanahan ran on Dubas, but it wasn't working between the two of them anymore.. So, something had to be done
- PatC80

Agreed if that was the case it's equally poopty but I didn't get a sense from Shanny that a deal was in place in March from a financial perspective but none of us really know I suppose.

Ballard is rolling around in his grave laughing at all of this. That much we know.

Dubas didn't outright say he would, just that it was something the would look at. I got the impression from Shanny that is more than just those comments.. Him telling Dubas not to talk during the end of season press conference, only to have him go out and publically say he's got to think it over and take time to decide.. Then days later coming back and saying I'll do it for more money and more power. The more I read about it, the more I think that Dubas really didn't want to be the Leafs GM anymore
- PatC80

Okay let's try to be objective here and look at some facts and timelines. You could still possibly be right but after a few days let's take a quick look.

How would Toronto feel if Dubas didn't speak on Monday? Would everyone here be okay with him not answering ANY questions to another disappointing season? I think fans would be lying if that were the case. Especially if he wasn't fired right away.

He said he wanted to talk with his family. Pretty much just his wife. His kids are too young t have anything really to worry about at school. He knows his contract is being negotiated, he also knows he can't wait multiple weeks or more than likely, more than a week AT BEST. So why is everyone harping on the guy for not dragging this out? The guy talked to his wife, gave himself a breather after an emotional loss/season and decided he wanted to be GM with more money. Why is this crazy or someone a scheme of playing his family card and "oh he came back 3 days later and was ready! He MUST be a douche and lying!" How about the guy understands the situation and knows he can't wait forever?

Ultimately, the board and Shanny didn't like it and that is their right to choose.

So on balance we have Dreger reporting that the Core 4 won't be touched as per the Core 4 themselves post conversations with Shanahan.

We have Friedman and a number of Athletic writers speculating that the core 4 will get broken up.

We have LeBrun bringing Doug Armstrong's name into the mix - a guy under contract for 4 more years.

No one knows a bloody thing. If a qualified GM is interviewing for a position and the boss says, "So the first thing you need to know is that I won't let you trade the following people . . .. " maybe just grab your poop and go. It's not a job you want.

I don't think anything can be guaranteed at all. A new GM and new coach might have a different philosophy on how to achieve more effective team defense and it may require us to move on from some of those core pieces.
- Monkeypunk

And Shannahan has the call on what philosophy to accept.

Freidman is not saying the core 4 is being broken up.

Writers of the athletic are opinion pieces.

Because the Core 4, as a competitive group in the post-season, are obviously flawed.

There is no way the Leafs will bring in a GM who will be handcuffed by what has come before.

Change is comin', lads. Buckle up!
- mjones242

So Boston team was flawed, Toronto Team and Carolina team is also flawed??? Let me guess, Vegas will be flawed as well.

This team absolutely needs a GM who knows how to lose a star forward without getting absolutely anything in return.

This definitely isn't relevant to the leafs current situation.

Treliving. 🤮
- joel878

He had Johnny G walk away from him. Be funny if Matthews did too

Because the Core 4, as a competitive group in the post-season, are obviously flawed.

There is no way the Leafs will bring in a GM who will be handcuffed by what has come before.

Change is comin', lads. Buckle up!
- mjones242

the only one that makes any sense based on that comment is Marner.
willy has been what you hope for...in a 6.9 mil player. been one of the better playoff Leafs. JT you cant move if you want to. If you are getting rid of AM, then its time to start over.

that leaves one

Give me some Brunette!

- Aaron_85

I think he'd be more than worth bringing in over Keefe.

I like Keefe and all, but man, he made some insanely (frank)ing stupid decisions.

He literally outlined the MT trade as an example...


“What I took from Kyle’s comments
- Santo_44[is they] were accurate and honest, which is without making any promises we will look at everything in the organization and try to make decisions that will make us better,” Shanahan explained. “That might not be on the timeline that everybody wants: It might not occur just this summer, it might occur during the season, it might occur on the next trade deadline.

“But just being different doesn't solve something.”


The man in charge of hiring the new GM obviously does not want to break up the core for the sake of it.

I am sure the new GM would absolutely be willing to listen, but its not a lets make the best trade by July 1st.

Well said.

He literally outlined the MT trade as an example...


“What I took from Kyle’s comments
- Santo_44[is they] were accurate and honest, which is without making any promises we will look at everything in the organization and try to make decisions that will make us better,” Shanahan explained. “That might not be on the timeline that everybody wants: It might not occur just this summer, it might occur during the season, it might occur on the next trade deadline.

“But just being different doesn't solve something.”


The man in charge of hiring the new GM obviously does not want to break up the core for the sake of it.

I am sure the new GM would absolutely be willing to listen, but its not a lets make the best trade by July 1st.

Yeah, he referred to the Tkachuk trade as an example of how to improve but didn't actually say that he would definitely trade a core 4 player.. Also, we don't know how much interference Shanahan or the board ran, so it's hard to say with any certainty that a trade involving Matthews/Marner/Nylander would even happen.

If the Leafs tried to make a "Tkachuk trade", the Leafs would be Calgary, not Florida.

Yeah, he referred to the Tkachuk trade as an example of how to improve but didn't actually say that he would definitely trade a core 4 player.. Also, we don't know how much interference Shanahan or the board ran, so it's hard to say with any certainty that a trade involving Matthews/Marner/Nylander would even happen.

If the Leafs tried to make a "Tkachuk trade", the Leafs would be Calgary, not Florida.
- PatC80

You mean the trade that everyone loved for Calgary last year? The one that everyone thought Treliving did a smooth move and pretty much "got one over" on Florida? That trade?

How did Treliving know Hubie would be a subpar version of himself and Markstrom would suck balls?

Agreed if that was the case it's equally poopty but I didn't get a sense from Shanny that a deal was in place in March from a financial perspective but none of us really know I suppose.

Ballard is rolling around in his grave laughing at all of this. That much we know.
- Cush29

Ballard is dancing the macarena right now too I bet.

Dubas didn't outright say he would, just that it was something the would look at. I got the impression from Shanny that is more than just those comments.. Him telling Dubas not to talk during the end of season press conference, only to have him go out and publically say he's got to think it over and take time to decide.. Then days later coming back and saying I'll do it for more money and more power. The more I read about it, the more I think that Dubas really didn't want to be the Leafs GM anymore
- PatC80

Or he was involved in a contract negotiation. I would like x, y, and z. You have offered me a, b and c.

The other party has the right to say, I'm sticking with a, b and c - if you don't like it, you are more than welcome to decline the offer and move on. Or perhaps they find a middle ground on parts of it.

If I was a young general manager I would expect some oversight from my boss, but after 5 years I would like more leeway to do my job. I don't expect complete autonomy per se, but I'd expect more freedom and different constraints.

I've also heard a bunch of different reports on what Dubas asked for, so other than the $6m instead of $4m and more authority, I don't actually know what he really asked for.

At the end of the day, Shanahan is the boss and he has that title as given to him by the owners of the team. He's the president and it's his decision. I don't like how it went down, but hopefully they make a decision that moves the team forward.

This team absolutely needs a GM who knows how to lose a star forward without getting absolutely anything in return.

This definitely isn't relevant to the leafs current situation.

Treliving. 🤮
- joel878

The only way I'd want him here is if it was as an AGM or an advisor.

I don't want him to be the guy making the decisions, but I wouldn't mind an experienced GM's Rolodex to help the new GM (preferably, in this scenario, Tulsky or Pridham).

You mean the trade that everyone loved for Calgary last year? The one that everyone thought Treliving did a smooth move and pretty much "got one over" on Florida? That trade?

How did Treliving know Hubie would be a subpar version of himself and Markstrom would suck balls?
- Aaron_85

I won't lie, I thought it was a great trade for Calgary at the time.. What I meant was that the Leafs would be dealing the younger player with more upside..
Unless another younger all-star player becomes available... Like a Jason Robertson.