Treliving is probably the best option being floated around but I see him as a D when all the other options are maybe an F-. He's pretty much the least rotten apple, I'd prefer to eat no rotten apples though.

Without getting into the Dubas situation too much, I feel comfy saying that as little as Dubas produced results wise it was probably still on par or better than everything Treliving has done.
- joel878

I’m willing to bet Treliving could do better with a bigger budget but yeah I get what you’re saying. He, like Dubas, has a lot to prove before I consider either of them stud GMs

Can’t wait til the leafs hire their new GM

My guess is about 1 out of 10 HB leaf fans will like it lol
- Dozzer

The Dubas caper has created a Stockholm syndrome among some Leaf fans.

The Dubas caper has created a Stockholm syndrome among some Leaf fans.
- THE EVIL WITHIN

They failed under him.

His fault? The coaches? The players?

I don’t know, but the team hasn’t been getting it done so it’s time for a new GM who is the one to mix up the rest.

They failed under him.

His fault? The coaches? The players?

I don’t know, but the team hasn’t been getting it done so it’s time for a new GM who is the one to mix up the rest.
- Dozzer

The Tavares signing to ridiculous money, 💰 was clearly on Dubas. And the other stars had to follow suit. Domino effect created by Dubas.

The Tavares signing to ridiculous money, 💰 was clearly on Dubas. And the other stars had to follow suit. Domino effect created by Dubas.
- THE EVIL WITHIN

That's an easy one to hold against him with hindsight, but every GM in the league would have taken Tavares at that price at the time. San Jose was trying to go 13 million a season.

That contract was originally quite a coup for Dubas, it just hasn't aged the greatest.

I never said he’d want to play for the coyotes and that he just may want to be back in his home country. He certainly seemed to disappear after seeing the most recent American to say no to a Canadian team get less media attention than him IN Florida. Also of course he’s “interested in signing an extension”, if anyone thinks he’d say otherwise to the Toronto media while under contract they’re just flat out crazy. For him to stay outside of his home country he’s going to cost quite a bit. Also, if he were to move to a team like LA he’d get just as much endorsement money because the mediocre businesses in the US are worth as much as the big ones in Canada.

As for Mitch trade him if he doesn’t answer. His return will suck at his wage but unless he’s willing to put the team’s needs first at his wage he shouldn’t be kept with a NTC when he’s on his favourite team and likely to say no to many many many teams if the leafs try and trade him after July 1.
- Dozzer

He might not want to, or he might want to. There's a lot of cases of American players extending to stay long term in Canada as well, international players in general. Endless examples. Who knows what's in austons head and what is most important to him on his next contract, but if I was a betting man I would hedge my coin on crazy amounts of money and getting out of Canada not being very high on the radar at all.

I mean, Phil Kessel literally signed an 8 year extension to stay in Toronto.

I also don't think you're taking a hit on Marner either. I don't believe two years left at his money is a deterrent, if anything the downside is only two years of assured team control. I can see teams lining up for him, especially younger teams with plenty of assets looking for that guy to add to their group as a potential franchise face. Anaheim for example.

The Tavares signing to ridiculous money, 💰 was clearly on Dubas. And the other stars had to follow suit. Domino effect created by Dubas.
- THE EVIL WITHIN

Actually it’s not surprising.

Canadian taxation: 53.53%
US: 40.5% (in many of the states)

This is why Matthews gets all his money July 1 while he is “living in Arizona” and only the bare minimum of $750K throughout the season while being paid in Canada.

It’s also why Messier “lived” in Point Roberts WA while playing for the Canucks.

It’s why guys like Marner and JT get as much as they do, they fall completely under Canadian taxation. For instance Tkachuk is only making $9.5 million and Marner gets $10,903,000 but Tkachuk’s take home is close to $600K more after taxes.

The NHL needs to adjust the cap so it’s only based on take home amounts post taxation but they won’t because that would benefit Canadian teams the most.

That's an easy one to hold against him with hindsight, but every GM in the league would have taken Tavares at that price at the time. San Jose was trying to go 13 million a season.

That contract was originally quite a coup for Dubas, it just hasn't aged the greatest.
- joel878

To be fair he’s into the last couple years of a 7 year deal. The last 2-3 are supposed to be the iffy ones and he’s still a PPG guy mostly getting 2nd line minutes with the exception of the PP.

Actually it’s not surprising.

Canadian taxation: 53.53%
US: 40.5% (in many of the states)

This is why Matthews gets all his money July 1 while he is “living in Arizona” and only the bare minimum of $750K throughout the season while being paid in Canada.

It’s also why Messier “lived” in Point Roberts WA while playing for the Canucks.

It’s why guys like Marner and JT get as much as they do, they fall completely under Canadian taxation. For instance Tkachuk is only making $9.5 million and Marner gets $10,903,000 but Tkachuk’s take home is close to $600K more after taxes.

The NHL needs to adjust the cap so it’s only based on take home amounts post taxation but they won’t because that would benefit Canadian teams the most.
- Dozzer

If it were an actual issue for players though, why wouldn't the Marners and JTs just move to the states.

They could literally live anywhere in the world they wanted. Just ask Willy.

That's an easy one to hold against him with hindsight, but every GM in the league would have taken Tavares at that price at the time. San Jose was trying to go 13 million a season.

That contract was originally quite a coup for Dubas, it just hasn't aged the greatest.
- joel878

That's pretty rich for a 86 point season. Tavares best season for the Isles.

He might not want to, or he might want to. There's a lot of cases of American players extending to stay long term in Canada as well, international players in general. Endless examples. Who knows what's in austons head and what is most important to him on his next contract, but if I was a betting man I would hedge my coin on crazy amounts of money and getting out of Canada not being very high on the radar at all.

I mean, Phil Kessel literally signed an 8 year extension to stay in Toronto.

I also don't think you're taking a hit on Marner either. I don't believe two years left at his money is a deterrent, if anything the downside is only two years of assured team control. I can see teams lining up for him, especially younger teams with plenty of assets looking for that guy to add to their group as a potential franchise face. Anaheim for example.
- joel878

But then Marner can say no and it’s over and done. That’s the problem.

I know what Kessel did but I think I also think this is a recent movement that has begun, there’s going to be some Americans who did not like how Canada handled Covid and they’re not going to want to be locked in here. Also, get the same amount but far more privacy in the states seems to be becoming appealing as well.

The (frank) are you talking about you meatball. The issue is your inability to understand that more goes into building a winner than putting bodies in jerseys.

Dubas built systems and process that didn't exist, he refined the entire organizational system and was widely respected for it. Lou said no beards and didn't let departments talk to each other.

Pretty snowflakey to claim pointing out a lack of understanding as an attic on mental health. If we're utilizing your logic there are 31 GMs a year who are 'losers' and should be fired. That's... Stupid. You going to cry about that too?
- joel878

Leaf players have had the gold toilet seat for years. Dubas didn’t invent the wheel here! Shoor he fine tuned some stuff, which he should, but he also didn’t do that on his own. Dubas did some pretty dumb things too…….and we are looking down the throat of one of them now with Matthews set to walk next year for nothing in return! That will go down as the biggest blunder in NHL history if it happens. Then, telling the core, and everyone who will listen, I am sticking with these guys no matter what! Who does that!? That’s some real incentive!! Hey guys, no worries, no matter what, you’re staying here and I’ll pay the absolute top dollar as well. Smart. The Leafs didn’t just lose since Dubas has been here, they’ve lost in spectacular fashion. They stand there while Tkachuk punches them repeatedly in the face………then they roll over and play dead. Yeah, only one team wins every year and the rest are losers and they don’t fire everyone every year for losing! But when it’s not working, when your team (top to bottom) isn’t showing any fight, when the result is exactly the same over and over, when you fail spectacularly every year, you make changes, you make hard choices, you have no friends it’s a business and you need improved results. I bought the…..we are young and need experience and growth, argument for a few years, but no more! There were a few warriors on the team this year in playoffs……..Reilly with his two black eyes, Luke Schenn……I like McCabes grit, Acciari, even Sammy and a few others for sure. But, not the core four. So do something! No I believe in my core let’s try again! Say……are there any player from the Soo available, let’s get them, all of them! Coaches too! A trained monkey could coach this team to the same results.

Honestly just need the team to get on with things at this point cause we really are, as a fanbase, flogging a dead horse on the what if's of all this.

I also don't see a real mass exodus here. Any team looking to poach has to get permission and really who wants to leave too. MLSE does tend to be loyal and pay well after all.

At this point everything has been mulled over, spit out by the media to where there's little to even make up a story on things.

Team just needs to sort out the GM thing and lets get on with it since that will sort out the coaching and the roster too.

If it were an actual issue for players though, why wouldn't the Marners and JTs just move to the states.

They could literally live anywhere in the world they wanted. Just ask Willy.
- joel878

Because Toronto is their favourite team willing to pay more

Marner wouldn’t have got that deal on an American team. JT was a stud UFA C too who wouldn’t have left the islanders unless it was for his fav team offering enough as well.

That is how the taxation works tho. Hope you’re not doubting that, the NHL doesn’t run the governments.

Last year Calgary would have absolutely traded Tkachuk for Marner straight up! And the Leafs would be in the final right now! That’s exactly why you never tell your players they are here no matter what! Dubas not being open minded enough to even consider options is a huge failure as a GM.

Actually it’s not surprising.

Canadian taxation: 53.53%
US: 40.5% (in many of the states)

This is why Matthews gets all his money July 1 while he is “living in Arizona” and only the bare minimum of $750K throughout the season while being paid in Canada.

It’s also why Messier “lived” in Point Roberts WA while playing for the Canucks.

It’s why guys like Marner and JT get as much as they do, they fall completely under Canadian taxation. For instance Tkachuk is only making $9.5 million and Marner gets $10,903,000 but Tkachuk’s take home is close to $600K more after taxes.

The NHL needs to adjust the cap so it’s only based on take home amounts post taxation but they won’t because that would benefit Canadian teams the most.
- Dozzer

Florida around 36.25% effectively for a 10 mill salary. (2022-23) No wonder Tkachuk chose the retirement state. 😁

This Dubas discourse is getting out of hand. It's not like he's Scotty Bowman or anything.

Some dudes are calling him "elite" on Twitter too. I mean, if Dubas is elite, the bar is incredibly low. He's not even a builder: he inherited a contending team, or at the very least, a playoff-lock team, with the amount of talent that was on the roster the day he took over.

Actually it’s not surprising.

Canadian taxation: 53.53%
US: 40.5% (in many of the states)

This is why Matthews gets all his money July 1 while he is “living in Arizona” and only the bare minimum of $750K throughout the season while being paid in Canada.

It’s also why Messier “lived” in Point Roberts WA while playing for the Canucks.

It’s why guys like Marner and JT get as much as they do, they fall completely under Canadian taxation. For instance Tkachuk is only making $9.5 million and Marner gets $10,903,000 but Tkachuk’s take home is close to $600K more after taxes.

The NHL needs to adjust the cap so it’s only based on take home amounts post taxation but they won’t because that would benefit Canadian teams the most.
- Dozzer

If you're talking take home and specifying where they live then you have to account for the exchange rate for the players living the majority of their live in Canada. Bump 30% on top for the exchange rate. Things are a lot closer in the end.

Florida around 36.25% effectively for a 10 mill salary. (2022-23) No wonder Tkachuk choose the retirement state. 😁
- THE EVIL WITHIN

Yeah I’m not shocked at all lol

I’m just using the average of 40.5% hoping to make the point lol

So at 36.25% Tkachuk’s take home at $9,500,000 is $6,056,250 after a $3,443,750 taxation

At 53.53% Marner’s take home at $10,903,000 is $5,066,624.10 after a $5,836,375.90 taxation.

His contract is setup to basically come home with $5 million and thanks for that number, Tkachuk’s is based around coming home with $6 million. As a more current contract that makes a lot of sense that his is a million more. His price in Canada would be around $13 million to get that.

If you're talking take home and specifying where they live then you have to account for the exchange rate for the players living the majority of their live in Canada. Bump 30% on top for the exchange rate. Things are a lot closer in the end.
- Aaron_85

No they don’t.

Not in the NHL because they don’t technically “live” here, they only “work” here

Google it up when it comes to NHLers, it’s no secret.

Last year Calgary would have absolutely traded Tkachuk for Marner straight up! And the Leafs would be in the final right now! That’s exactly why you never tell your players they are here no matter what! Dubas not being open minded enough to even consider options is a huge failure as a GM.
- Bullot

Ummm if Chicago didn't beat Pittsburgh late in the season Tkachuk and the Panthers wouldn't even have made the playoffs.

And I don't think Calgary could have traded Bobrovski to the Leafs along with Tkachuk...

This Dubas discourse is getting out of hand. It's not like he's Scotty Bowman or anything.

Some dudes are calling him "elite" on Twitter too. I mean, if Dubas is elite, the bar is incredibly low. He's not even a builder: he inherited a contending team, or at the very least, a playoff-lock team, with the amount of talent that was on the roster the day he took over.
- gravyface

He certainly convinced Shanahan to go for him over the desert fox Lou. I belive Dubas last offer, from his agent on his behalf. Would have made Shanahan a lame Duck.🦆 And that made Shanahan angry and he went into panic mode. Augello said it wasn't about the money.

But then Marner can say no and it’s over and done. That’s the problem.

I know what Kessel did but I think I also think this is a recent movement that has begun, there’s going to be some Americans who did not like how Canada handled Covid and they’re not going to want to be locked in here. Also, get the same amount but far more privacy in the states seems to be becoming appealing as well.
- Dozzer

This is a very good point.

Been away for 12 days or so...what did i miss?
Oh the leafs have imploded?
Ah geez.

Just hire Prindham as gm and be done with it.

This is a very good point.
- rSole

It’s why I think people who believe Bertuzzi would ever sign for a Canadian team are flat out dreamers.

He’s not going to risk having an employer demanding he get certain levels of medical care when he doesn’t legally need to and doesn’t want to.

I disagree with him, I’m an epileptic that trusts healthcare 100% ffs lol, but he’s an American who strongly considers it his right that Canada does not follow.