I don’t even know how a team can intentionally lose games and properly develop young players in the process.
- SuperSchennBros

google it.

being "hard to play against" is just a way of saying "we don't have talent to score, we aren't going to win games but we aren't going to let teams roll over us each night"

not sure why everyone is so hung up on this phrasing. I have no problem losing games but also not looking like a complete dumpster fire while we do it.
- black_francis

Agree. We don’t have the players. People making it sound like it was easy to have great skill, we just said no thanks. We would rather check people.

It will take years to rebuild.

Agreed. Either way there will be something to whine about for certain folks
- black_francis

coaches and players never try to intentionally lose.

Agree. We don’t have the players. People making it sound like it was easy to have great skill, we just said no thanks. We would rather check people.

It will take years to rebuild.
- Peter Richards

well what year of the rebuild is this?

When you look at the drafts the last 10 years, excluding this one. Do you see more skill or flyers types?

The problem seems to be that this organization still thinks "harder to play against" means getting hits and physically beating you. When what it really should mean is being so talented the other team cant compete against you.

Great talent is the hardest thing to play against. Yeah yeah, they still need to work hard, but I would rather have hard working talent over hard working plugs.
- MBFlyerfan

I think we all agree the best would be "hard working talent" and "lazy plugs" is the worst but which is better for your re-building team:

lazy talent? or hard working plugs?

This comes back to a culture question.

why don't you just stick to complaining about Torts everyday, you're good at it
- black_francis

I haven't seen him yet behind the bench this pre-season. 😉

coaches and players never try to intentionally lose.
- hello it's me 2050

So if you don’t have the talent, what do you preach to your developing players? Wait for Michkov and coast until then? As far as I’m concerned the “be harder to play against” mantra is less for the fans and more for the players who are going to be enduring this rebuild.

Its not selling a bs product, it’s openly admitting we aren’t going to win games so this is the only thing we can control so that we are prepared for when we do have the talent here.

Otherwise we will get high end talent here and a team full of guys that feel it’s ok to fold as soon as you’re down a goal or two.

I don’t even know how a team can intentionally lose games and properly develop young players in the process.
- SuperSchennBros

Rielly and Nylander developed just fine during the Matthews tankathon.

well what year of the rebuild is this?

When you look at the drafts the last 10 years, excluding this one. Do you see more skill or flyers types?
- hello it's me 2050

less skill than before that's for sure. jvr signing hurt, then chuck shot the cow. imo we should be years ahead of where we are when ron took over, but yet here we are.

and yes, imo it will take 5-10 years depending now how some of these picks work out. as it stands, our defense needs a complete overhaul. and that's with hoping all of our current prospects work out.

they will say technically year two, however i would say year 7 or 8 already.

So if you don’t have the talent, what do you preach to your developing players? Wait for Michkov and coast until then? As far as I’m concerned the “be harder to play against” mantra is less for the fans and more for the players who are going to be enduring this rebuild.
- black_francis

flyers have some talent so why can't they be "developed"? Not a one brush covers all approach.

when you have a coach who has stated he doesn't know or understand offense well what kind of "developing" can one do? The good ole work harder block shots mantra. This is all the coach pretty much knows. Be hard to play against. It is a fn cliche that flyers fans buy hook line and sinker.

Now don't get me wrong during end of the CC era they were total pansies and quitters.

There is no rebuild.

Rielly and Nylander developed just fine in the Matthews tankathon.
- Tomahawk

maybe reilly, nylander only played 22 games that year. but i look at some of the other teams that have been rebuilding for years or at least a decade. thats where this team seems to be, unless something amazing happens now.

I think we all agree the best would be "hard working talent" and "lazy plugs" is the worst but which is better for your re-building team:

lazy talent? or hard working plugs?

This comes back to a culture question.
- FlyersGrace

What is the saying? Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

That being said. Up until recently it seemed like this team always valued drafting the "200 foot" player who works hard over the uber talented player who may have issues in that "works hard" dept.

My problem with that is they are kids. They can be taught to work hard in many cases, but they cant be taught to be talented per se.

https://theathletic.com/4...kings-defense-tiers-2023/

Tier 6: Problematic

Philadelphia Flyers
Travis Sanheim–Rasmus Ristolainen
Cam York–Sean Walker
Nick Seeler–Marc Staal

Other defense options: Emil Andrae, Egor Zamula

Philadelphia is desperately short on high-end top-four defensemen.

Sanheim had a disappointing year and while Ristolainen improved significantly last season, he’s not well-suited to driving a top pair.

York is the most exciting player to keep an eye on. The 22-year-old is a skilled, intelligent player and smooth skater. He offered strong play-driving results last season and held his own playing his off-side on the top pair. Walker was once a sturdy top-four option for the Kings but he’s coming off a down season after tearing his ACL and MCL in 2021-22.

Andrae, 21, is highly talented and could force his way into the lineup as well.

No surprise there.

Carolina, Colorado, Vegas, and Boston all ranked tier 1 Elite

maybe reilly, nylander only played 22 games that year. but i look at some of the other teams that have been rebuilding for years or at least a decade. thats where this team seems to be, unless something amazing happens now.
- Peter Richards

If your young players have the requisite talent and work ethic they will develop fine regardless of the overall team situation. If you have nothing but a stable full of low-ceiling, questionable character types (see 2015 Sabres)... then yeah... good luck.

Rielly and Nylander developed just fine during the Matthews tankathon.
- Tomahawk

They still had a ton of vets on the team, similar to what we do

If your young players have the requisite talent and work ethic they will develop fine regardless of the overall team situation. If you have nothing but a stable full of low-ceiling, questionable character types (see 2015 Sabres)... then yeah... good luck.
- Tomahawk

Interesting you bring this up. was a whole topic the other day of discussion. I don't completely disagree. the sabres and the fact sometimes those teams rush a young player up and it does more harm than good for a bit. seems like there are more headcases these days. nylander was always a confident person it seems.

Vasi out for 2 months. Send them Felix for a pick....one can wish.

If your young players have the requisite talent and work ethic they will develop fine regardless of the overall team situation. If you have nothing but a stable full of low-ceiling, questionable character types (see 2015 Sabres)... then yeah... good luck.
- Tomahawk

And what if they don’t? Is a coaching staff supposed to do nothing?

For what it’s worth, I understand the “jilted lovers” feeling of what the flyers might be trying to sell you. We’ve been let down before. But in the last decade we haven’t had anyone behind the bench holding anyone accountable. Remember that buzzword? “Accountability”? We all obsessed over this concept for how long? Players phoning it in? We have had 1 year of a guy, unattached to the franchise, come in a tell us what he sees and what he thinks of this group.. And the reaction is hilarious. Up in arms that he’s giving players a hard time and “benching them with family present” 😂

The team isn’t trying to sell anyone that this is a good team. Or that hard work will win us a cup.

For what it’s worth, I understand the “jilted lovers” feeling of what the flyers might be trying to sell you. We’ve been let down before. But in the last decade we haven’t had anyone behind the bench holding anyone accountable. Remember that buzzword? “Accountability”? We all obsessed over this concept for how long? Players phoning it in? We have had 1 year of a guy, unattached to the franchise, come in a tell us what he sees and what he thinks of this group.. And the reaction is hilarious. Up in arms that he’s giving players a hard time and “benching them with family present” 😂

The team isn’t trying to sell anyone that this is a good team. Or that hard work will win us a cup.
- black_francis

to me what is funny, a lot of the people complaining also wanted someone from outside the organization to do just that. Torts will be here for another year or two at least. and while i don't like everything he does, i think the critics are blowing things out of proportion. and what coach has not been complained about?

to me what is funny, a lot of the people complaining also wanted someone from outside the organization to do just that. Torts will be here for another year or two at least. and while i don't like everything he does, i think the critics are blowing things out of proportion. and what coach has not been complained about?
- Peter Richards

He’s far from perfect but he’s also been, imo, accurate of his assessments of the players in front of him.

Is it not a brilliant move, knowing your team is going to be bad and lack talent, to have a guy that, at the VERY LEAST, gets the room to realize you’re still professionals and there is a certain amount of work and prep required of millionaires playing todays game. We aren’t in the years of working out our Xs and Os (something Torts admitted isn’t his strong suit) - Torts doesn’t have a contract that spans an entire decade and yet folks act his methods are the end all be all for this team. He is here NOW for a reason - because we will suck! So we can only control everything else outside of talent. He will be gone when it matters. Right now, what matters is we don’t have a collective thinking that, if we are going to suck on paper, the only thing we can control is that we don’t have the mentality to roll over when it does matter

Accountability, work ethic, hard to play against. That's the path to the Cup. Sounds like the same old Flyers to me.

Sorry to spam, but I have 5 spots open in my 20 team yahoo "hockeybuzz" league and the draft is next Thursday the 5th at 8pm EDT.

No cash/keepers, stats include FW, Hits, Blocks, etc. Message me if you want in

Never seen it discussed, is it out of the realm of possibility the flyers extent torts at some point? Not outlandish.

Rielly and Nylander developed just fine during the Matthews tankathon.
- Tomahawk

Nylander is in constant trade rumors and many question if he deserved the contract he was given. Talk to a Leaf fans. They probably believe Rielly is not a true number 1 defenseman and he’s worst than we believed Provorov ever was.

In my opinion, there are fans and there are cheerleaders. A fan is not going to be OK with the Flyers tanking a season because Briere, Torts and Company isn’t going to put the best players or the right players on the ice. I am not OK as a fan and I believe most fans should not be OK with knowing that the people in charge of the thing I’m rooting for are half Assing anything. Put the best product on the ice that you can.

But there’s a weird thing right now where cheerleaders want fans to root for a 0-82 team until they’re good again and even criticize a fan for not being okay with the tank process. There are a lot of cheerleaders in Toronto because all that matters to them is the logo. Good bad or indifferent. We need to be better than them. it’s hard for me to call whatever it is the Toronto Maple Leafs were doing a tankathon, because they were bad for 10 years and their fans still showed up.