All I was saying is that if 'Bedard's heart was in Vancouver' -there were ways to make it happen -which did not happen.
- SC116

If he wanted to start his career and get the same early moniker as a spoiled brat that Lindros carried. (Tell me, you know of no fans who changed their opinion of him after that?)

It is nice to see that there are more "students" from my era here.

Merry Christmas

I post a balanced detailed opinion about how Korchinski is weak in two main areas and your response is ‘ It's exactly what he's doing even though you can't see it, he's learning how to play as a NHL defenseman.’? So what exactly is he doing? How do you see him improving? Do you dispute he’s overwhelmed in his own zone? Do you disagree that he’s constantly leaving his defensive position to make offensive forays? Are his offensive rushes and pinches resulting in team goals?

Despite his considerable skills Korchinski is showing little defensive prowess and he’s certainly not driving the offense. If he doesn’t improve drastically over the course of the season the Hawks will have little option but to start him in Rockford next season especially considering the plethora of defensive talent in the organization.
- paulr

I highly doubt KK is ever going to be all that great defensively. He’s just not that kind of defenseman. Can/will he get better, yes, but I see him as being closer to a Morgan Reilly type. He’s 19 and learning in the NHL. It will be kinda ugly for the next two years as he figures it out.

Right now (looking at his play before his absence), I see him as the second best D prospect behind Vlasic. Kaiser, Phillips, and Crevier are all promising, but KK has a bit extra juice in his game. By the end of the year, I’m confident he’ll have a better idea of how to harness his talent and identify where to pick his spots.

I highly doubt KK is ever going to be all that great defensively. He’s just not that kind of defenseman. Can/will he get better, yes, but I see him as being closer to a Morgan Reilly type. He’s 19 and learning in the NHL. It will be kinda ugly for the next two years as he figures it out.

Right now (looking at his play before his absence), I see him as the second best D prospect behind Vlasic. Kaiser, Phillips, and Crevier are all promising, but KK has a bit extra juice in his game. By the end of the year, I’m confident he’ll have a better idea of how to harness his talent and identify where to pick his spots.
- Chunk

I won’t say that you are wrong about how good KK will be defensively. However he may mature as. Dman after he has been in the league a few years. How much does he want to become better? It could be the impetus to improve so that he can ask for a lofty even exceedingly high contract down the line. Maybe in some ways Kk becomes more comfortable with a better cast including his defense partner We don’t know that he would go to Rockford for a year?

He is just a kid learning the ropes and trying to apply but the head coach has to tell him how much freedom he has to roam.

The discussion about his skating and getting beat simmers down when he eventually is better in positioning.

I just don’t expect huge leaps and bounds improvement for at least a couple seasons

They'll never win back to back games this season. What a disastrous season !
- Lauerg

Did you not get the tank memo?

Soderblume does not belong in the nhl
- LFS

Next stop Indy Fuel.

This season isn’t about winning. Ride out the season with Soderblom then make a decision in the off season.

The team in front of Soderblom isn’t great, but its the same team playing in front of Mrazek whom is getting praised for his play.
- DarthKane

I see KD plucking an older goalie out of an AHL team and sending Soderblom down. It's not fair to the rest of the team having him play like this.

I highly doubt KK is ever going to be all that great defensively. He’s just not that kind of defenseman. Can/will he get better, yes, but I see him as being closer to a Morgan Reilly type. He’s 19 and learning in the NHL. It will be kinda ugly for the next two years as he figures it out.

Right now (looking at his play before his absence), I see him as the second best D prospect behind Vlasic. Kaiser, Phillips, and Crevier are all promising, but KK has a bit extra juice in his game. By the end of the year, I’m confident he’ll have a better idea of how to harness his talent and identify where to pick his spots.
- Chunk

Defense doesn’t take skill or natural talent. Defense takes hard work, positioning and dedication. No one can teach the skills McDavid, Matthews or Bedard possess but anyone can be taught and learn to play defense. If Korchinski isn’t going to be all that good defensively then it’s because he doesn’t want to be. Is that the kind of player you, or any Blackhawk fan wishes to see on the roster? I don’t buy it Chunk, KK can be a good all round defender, if he’s coached to be and if he strives to be.

In 2014 the Hawks had the choice between a strong defensive defenseman, Johnny Oduya, or the better player an offensive defenseman who was weak defensively in Nick Leddy. Who did they choose and why? It is imperative Korchinski learn to play solid defense both for his and the team’s benefit.

https://sports.yahoo.com/...nazar-goes-220056209.html

There you go LA, that’s exactly correct. They have a bunch of rookies and a couple of sieves in the backend and the forwards are for the most part below average NHL players. Also, they are currently missing two of their best dmen, Vlasic is a stud. I do believe that KD will bring in some talent this offseason to add to the forward group, plus another year of experience for the young D and Bedard. Please no more Tinordi, he got knocked on his arse three times in the first period alone, and out of position 80% of the time, not to mention the stupid penalties. It’s really a joke that they are keeping him around. I was a Soderblom fan, but man there’s something wrong there, I’d bring up Stauber for now and send Soda down to get his confidence back.
- Angotti

Tinordi had 3 assists last night...

They should be getting turned inside out some games. They should look better other games.

It's a bunch of rookies and 4th liners + Bedard and Foligno. Probably not a great recipe for consistency or success BUT there is a lot to build on.

For the most part Crevier is cool and collected, has a nice reach and can make a tape to tape pass consistently.

Philips has looked like a very good hard nosed defender some games and like a lost puppy others.

Korchinski was told by the coaching staff to play more aggressively and play his game. He is figuring it out. Dangerous at some points and kind of manic at others but that isn't a whole lot different from what Keith did his first year.

Vlasic has exceeded everyone's expectations.

This is what happens when you play 3 or 4 rookies and can't hide them. And it isn't a bad thing. Way more success for that group to build on than failures which is encouraging.
- fattybeef

Good perspective.

I didn’t know that about KK.

I see KD plucking an older goalie out of an AHL team and sending Soderblom down. It's not fair to the rest of the team having him play like this.
- rpeters01

I can see Stauber brought up soon and Soderblom being sent down. If the kid doesn't have it, he doesn't have it. His play this season has to be an eye opener for the organization regarding him. They probably had him penciled as a future number two when Commesso is ready in a couple of years. Best to find that out now so they can re-think the future goalie situation.

If he wanted to start his career and get the same early moniker as a spoiled brat that Lindros carried. (Tell me, you know of no fans who changed their opinion of him after that?)

It is nice to see that there are more "students" from my era here.

Merry Christmas
- wiz1901

Merry x mas and 45 years since Billy Reay got that x Mas card from the Hawks ‘Your Fired’

I post a balanced detailed opinion about how Korchinski is weak in two main areas and your response is ‘ It's exactly what he's doing even though you can't see it, he's learning how to play as a NHL defenseman.’? So what exactly is he doing? How do you see him improving? Do you dispute he’s overwhelmed in his own zone? Do you disagree that he’s constantly leaving his defensive position to make offensive forays? Are his offensive rushes and pinches resulting in team goals?

Despite his considerable skills Korchinski is showing little defensive prowess and he’s certainly not driving the offense. If he doesn’t improve drastically over the course of the season the Hawks will have little option but to start him in Rockford next season especially considering the plethora of defensive talent in the organization.
- paulr

Well i don't know if you watched the game last night, i didn't see any bad pinches, i don't think he even did any in the 1st period, once in the 2nd, and maybe once in the 3rd. He's been actually responsible in that regard.

2 this must a coaching point when the forward is entering the zone on his side they want the dman to challenge the puck carrier at the blue line, Phillips and Tinordi were doing it.

And i still don't see what you are talking about playing defensively he seems to be on the right side of the puck almost always in his own end. He's quick to read the play and give his partner an outlet pass.

When Zaitsev made a terrible pass to the neutral zone in the 2nd period and was lackadaisical in his own end and completely out of position, KK communicated with him covered his guy as 22 barely got a piece of a pass because he was being lazy in his own end and KK had to defend his guy.

He also pinned a couple of guys to the boards in his own end as support came over and gained possession.

If you are talking about, i think the game tying goal, which guy was he supposed to cover the guy in front of him which he lifted his stick or the forward coming in behind him that I think Bedard didn't cover?

So i guess we are both watching a different player.

To be fair - Out of all of them Leddy was really the only one to have a very good career post Hawks and get paid. The rest of the guys are 3rd pairing dime a dozen players. Even Rutta never made more than 2.75 million per. (The Hawks got de Haan when the 4.1 was in place he didn't make that after).

I guess TVR got 3 million but thats probably the going rate for a veteran third pairing player.
- fattybeef

Dime a dozen and only third pair. Not really always true though. Some of the guys have been playing second pair and doing well after being berated around here as the reason why the Hawks are so bad.

The point is, many of the guys who struggled here or were endless bashed found other teams and continues to be NHL Dmen (usually slotting 4 or 5 on deeper teams), many on teams a lot more successful than the Hawks.

Defense doesn’t take skill or natural talent. Defense takes hard work, positioning and dedication. No one can teach the skills McDavid, Matthews or Bedard possess but anyone can be taught and learn to play defense. If Korchinski isn’t going to be all that good defensively then it’s because he doesn’t want to be. Is that the kind of player you, or any Blackhawk fan wishes to see on the roster? I don’t buy it Chunk, KK can be a good all round defender, if he’s coached to be and if he strives to be.

In 2014 the Hawks had the choice between a strong defensive defenseman, Johnny Oduya, or the better player an offensive defenseman who was weak defensively in Nick Leddy. Who did they choose and why? It is imperative Korchinski learn to play solid defense both for his and the team’s benefit.
- paulr

Put it into perspective though Korchinski is 19 years old, playing his first pro season and just got back after being away from the team to grieve the death of his father. Do you really expect him to be a solid defensive defender right now?

The Hawks have admitted that they want him here learning in the NHL and that's what is happening, but about 1/4 of a season isn't going to be enough. Let the coaches worry about his development, because they are the ones telling him what to change, how to adjust, what to do differently and observing how he adapts.

There is a factor of skill and talent to playing defense. There is the skating, the awareness, hand eye co-ordination and instincts that go into it.

Again though, Korchinski is just 19 years old and making the jump to pro, lets see where he is after 200 games or so. He also may never be a great defensive dman, he could be a guy kind of like Brian Campbell, who was only "okay" in his own end, but had offensive talent and skating to be a really effective NHL player. A guy who, entered the league at age 20, but wasn't a real everyday player until age 22 or 23 and then really actually hit his stride at age 26.
Korchinski will probably be leaps and bounds ahead of where he is now in 3 years time. That's a reasonable timeline for him to really "get it" at the NHL level.

Tinordi had 3 assists last night...
- rpeters01

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes. The guy is terrible.

Dime a dozen and only third pair. Not really always true though. Some of the guys have been playing second pair and doing well after being berated around here as the reason why the Hawks are so bad.

The point is, many of the guys who struggled here or were endless bashed found other teams and continues to be NHL Dmen (usually slotting 4 or 5 on deeper teams), many on teams a lot more successful than the Hawks.
- breadbag

Other than spotting guys who?

Leddy certainly but everyone else is interchangeable. Second pairing guys are going to make +4 million.

Defense doesn’t take skill or natural talent. Defense takes hard work, positioning and dedication. No one can teach the skills McDavid, Matthews or Bedard possess but anyone can be taught and learn to play defense. If Korchinski isn’t going to be all that good defensively then it’s because he doesn’t want to be. Is that the kind of player you, or any Blackhawk fan wishes to see on the roster? I don’t buy it Chunk, KK can be a good all round defender, if he’s coached to be and if he strives to be.

In 2014 the Hawks had the choice between a strong defensive defenseman, Johnny Oduya, or the better player an offensive defenseman who was weak defensively in Nick Leddy. Who did they choose and why? It is imperative Korchinski learn to play solid defense both for his and the team’s benefit.
- paulr

Indeed, and despite that fact, there are several defensemen in th league who are simply adequate defensively, but exceptional on offense (and they get paid handsomely for it). I’m on your side. I wish all the defensemen concentrated on defense first. That simply isn’t the reality and there are uses/needs for players like Karlsson, Burns, Campbell, Leddy, etc.

I just don’t think you can try to turn all defensemen into all around players. Some have specific strengths and I think you try to accentuate those and minimize the deficiencies.

Put it into perspective though Korchinski is 19 years old, playing his first pro season and just got back after being away from the team to grieve the death of his father. Do you really expect him to be a solid defensive defender right now?

There is a factor of skill and talent to playing defense. There is the skating, the awareness, hand eye co-ordination and instincts that go into it.

Again though, Korchinski is just 19 years old and making the jump to pro, lets see where he is after 200 games or so.

- breadbag

Been staying away from the KK talk in this thread. If someone posts KK can't skate, or is a weak skater, and folks reply to that it's just not a conversation for me.......But you make good points here, BB, so I wanna just throw in a few cliches that fit. Simply said.

If you watched KK in the WHL, Memorial Cup and WJC just last yr you could see he definitely had defensive issues (no deal breakers, he didn't look like Bovquist). It wasn't effort but positioning and his skating got em outa trouble at that level.

So here is a 19 yr old in camp and preseason. He did enough for management to keep him up for a look see. He is a classic tweener in that he's not quite ready for the NHL but won't develop much in jrs. A player who belongs in the AHL for sure.

So you keep the kid up. A 19 yr old tweener, especially a Dman with D issues, you would SHELTER. Favorable matchups and Ozone starts. But they have a rookie on EACH pairing so you can't shelter ANY of them.

Against MTL the 19 yr old LED Dmen in TOI!! Vs STL he was 30 seconds behind Phillips for most Dmen TOI!!...... Far far from sheltering.

Look at the quality of opponent the kid is playing against as a 19 yr old who belongs in the AHL. Kid doesn't get the benefit of being sheltered as he has a 53% Ozone starts up to now. Developing properly at the NHL level the kid would have 60-65% Ozone starts and is at a proper 17:00 TOI.

19 yrs old, belongs in the AHL, some games leading the Dmen in TOI vs top lines, not being sheltered, not exactly ideal D partners and most forwards belong in the AHL. .....

Yet the kid is at 49% for SF% and 48% Corsi!

Yep, it can look ugly at times, everyone must know development is not linear, sure he's out of position and joins the rush when he shouldn't at times but overall, big picture so far, I'm pleased and think the Hawks are too.

Other than spotting guys who?

Leddy certainly but everyone else is interchangeable. Second pairing guys are going to make +4 million.
- fattybeef

Easy. Like you mentioned Leddy is obvious.

TVR has seen second pair usage, like he is right now in Washington.

Kempny, many fans complained about him, but he was traded and slotted in the number 4 hole with Washington winning the cup and then continued a couple more seasons in that 4-5 spot.

Forsling, another whipping boy at times around here who has flourished in Florida.

Maatta was another one, under-appreciated here continued to play a similar role with LA and Detroit in the last few years, for example he was # 3 in minutes played on the back end for Detroit.

Zadorov was often complained about in our third pair, but look who is playing in Vancouvers second pair right now.

The point is there have been a lot of guys slotted into our 4-5-6-7 slots with the Hawks who the fans love to complain about, but they play similar roles on other teams and continue to be everyday NHL players. Not dime a dozen filler on the back end, but guys who move between those middle D slots.

It is nice to see that there are more "students" from my era here.

Merry Christmas
- wiz1901

Thanks Wiz .. you too, mate, love your posts I didn't actually remember anything about Lindros going to school - remember Chelios did, and decided pretty quickly it wasn't for him (but then again I read Chelios' book -- and never so much as looked for a Lindros one -if one even exists, so I probably missed it).

While they are only 3 points out of a playoff spot, some models right now are giving the Wings only a 12% chance to make the playoffs. Will be interesting to see how that plays out and if maybe Kane picked the wrong horse to make a run with.

Outside of Vlasic looking steady and confident, I don't buy what anyone is saying about how the young D corps look. We might have some keepers, we might not.
Every one of them had someone remark about how promising they looked yet thy are constantly getting turned inside out; Crevier especially tonight. And no one anticipated Vlasic's steady game this year.

As for tonight... I think its fair to say if Soderbloom was ever a decent prospect, he is now a broken one. I don't see how the team can mentally get up for one of his starts.

KK is pressing so much he's broken as well. Always a step behind and caught up ice and out of position. Is it too late for him to join the Junior team?

Tinordi... For those lumping Zaitsev and Murphy in with him I'd say his lame penalties place him in a category by himself. He needs to go.
- busmaster

Vlasic is a long-term part of the next core, he could fill the Seabrook-type of role. I expect Vlasic will wear a letter in the near future.

KK is also part of the future, best case he’s a true #1, worse case is top 4 PP specialist.

The rest have potential, but are far from locks. Phillips has the edge right now, but Del Mastro and Allan could pass him (or not). I think KD should draft another defenseman in the first round. If they draft 3rd or 4th then go for Levshunov, D!ckinson or Silayev. With Tampa’s pick - Parekh, Yakemchuck or Jiricek (depending on who’s available).

Indeed, and despite that fact, there are several defensemen in th league who are simply adequate defensively, but exceptional on offense (and they get paid handsomely for it).
- Chunk

And if you have one with size, they have a better chance Lane Hutson sized ones.

I just watched the exhibition between Canada and USA and me, the guy who has preached patience on big #8 Sam Rinzel, well, he surprised me.

He has advanced, is more confident sure in his play, I felt really good about that he might be that diamond they said he might.

Nazar can play, Moore is still simply lightning out of a bottle and will be given time to become a nice forward option too.

Didn't see Greeneee much.

Vlasic is a long-term part of the next core, he could fill the Seabrook-type of role. I expect Vlasic will wear a letter in the near future.

KK is also part of the future, best case he’s a true #1, worse case is top 4 PP specialist.

The rest have potential, but are far from locks. Phillips has the edge right now, but Del Mastro and Allan could pass him (or not). I think KD should draft another defenseman in the first round. If they draft 3rd or 4th then go for Levshunov, D!ckinson or Silayev. With Tampa’s pick - Parekh, Yakemchuck or Jiricek (depending on who’s available).
- DarthKane

Yes ……the shape of things to come….,,agree with your call