So, he is a second pairing guy who NHL coaches play 25 minutes a night? He has played first pair minutes every year since 2015-16. He hasn't lived up to his contract, and I'm not arguing that, but a lot of it has been just how awful the team has been. Your premise that he is just a second pair guy, doesn't hold water. I know Hawks fans like to female dog about him, but he isn't nearly as awful as people imagine in their brains. Just being real with you.
- breadbag

Look, my point was that the Hawks are a better team with Jones playing. People act like he doesn't even belong on an NHL roster with their criticism. He got overpaid a bit, but he is still effective. Does it suck that he bobbled a bouncing puck? Sure. Does he make mistakes at times, sure. So does everyone. I'm sure I could find at least a half dozen similar mistakes last game, and it's just because the Stars capitalized on this and that Jones makes big money.

Look, my point was that the Hawks are a better team with Jones playing. People act like he doesn't even belong on an NHL roster with their criticism. He got overpaid a bit, but he is still effective. Does it suck that he bobbled a bouncing puck? Sure. Does he make mistakes at times, sure. So does everyone. I'm sure I could find at least a half dozen similar mistakes last game, and it's just because the Stars capitalized on this and that Jones makes big money.
- breadbag

You’re probably right that Jones is more than a second pairing defenseman, I just with it was with another team. He’s good but not great at anything. And a big part of my issue is he has the contract of an elite defender and he’s no where close. When the time comes, and it’s coming, Jones is going to be an albatross on the roster and KD will have to pay big to move him out.

You’re probably right that Jones is more than a second pairing defenseman, I just with it was with another team. He’s good but not great at anything. And a big part of my issue is he has the contract of an elite defender and he’s no where close. When the time comes, and it’s coming, Jones is going to be an albatross on the roster and KD will have to pay big to move him out.
- paulr

I would just say, let's worry about his contract being an issue when it's an issue. Personally, I don't know that the Cap will be an issue for at least another 2-3 seasons for the Hawks and who knows how well Jones will perform once the team around him improves. I'd just rather see him playing than sitting on IR right now.

As the board seems to be looking for some size in this draft, was wondering about this player:

Dean Letourneau, C, 6-6, 210 playing USHL next year then Boston College (similar to Rinzel's path). Looks like a good scorer but has just started at Sioux Falls USHL.

https://www.eliteprospect...er/597680/dean-letourneau

https://thehockeynews.com...-prospect-dean-letourneau

Wiz has him at #56 (also Wiz, looks like a typo as you have him as a G right now). There is time to wait on him as there are plenty of F prospects to fill up Rockford next year.

Look, my point was that the Hawks are a better team with Jones playing. People act like he doesn't even belong on an NHL roster with their criticism. He got overpaid a bit, but he is still effective. Does it suck that he bobbled a bouncing puck? Sure. Does he make mistakes at times, sure. So does everyone. I'm sure I could find at least a half dozen similar mistakes last game, and it's just because the Stars capitalized on this and that Jones makes big money.
- breadbag

I'll just say it was really disappointing to see him lose a battle at the blue line ends up on the wrong side of the puck and it ended up in the back of the net in a 1-1 game. I do think he's a 20 minute defenseman, i personally wouldn't play him 25 minutes but that's just me.

I'll just say it was really disappointing to see him lose a battle at the blue line ends up on the wrong side of the puck and it ended up in the back of the net in a 1-1 game. I do think he's a 20 minute defenseman, i personally wouldn't play him 25 minutes but that's just me.
- BetweenTheDots

I've never really been a big Seth Jones guy, but in my books he is the only top pair dman we've had since Keith/Seabrook declined with age. I think he has struggled at times with having to be "the guy" on the blueline with a team that has been stripped down of talent. I get that it sucks he lost that puck the other night, but I also realize that he was in his first game back after missing a month and that puck was bouncing.

It sucked, but I also can think of 3 or 4 other shifts where he made good plays in that game. I liked the play he tried to make on Dallas's empty net goal and he was the only one back to actually catch Pavelski to try to save the game. Jason D quit on the play or else the probably don't give up that empty net goal.

I would still argue that he is the best Hawks Dman when it comes to making the breakout pass and when it comes to activating and joining the attack when he roams down low. There have been some really good plays he's made this year from the half wall or by going down into the corner and setting up other players. By the stats/numbers he has also been one of the better Hawks PK dmen this season.

I wouldn't have traded for him if I was Stan Bowman of a few years ago and I wouldn't have signed him to such a big contract, but I just don't think he is "all bad" or dragging the team down at this point. If he underperforms when the team is good again, that is a different story.

As the board seems to be looking for some size in this draft, was wondering about this player:

Dean Letourneau, C, 6-6, 210 playing USHL next year then Boston College (similar to Rinzel's path). Looks like a good scorer but has just started at Sioux Falls USHL.

https://www.eliteprospect...er/597680/dean-letourneau

https://thehockeynews.com...-prospect-dean-letourneau

Wiz has him at #56 (also Wiz, looks like a typo as you have him as a G right now). There is time to wait on him as there are plenty of F prospects to fill up Rockford next year.
- totem

I’ll do my best Chunk impersonation …. Adam Creighton.

How did my good name get dragged into your marital misadventures?
- paulr

Simmer there bud. Just saying you both seem to enjoy letting me know when I’m wrong. 😂

I’ll do my best Chunk impersonation …. Adam Creighton.
- paulr

Close, but you need to say it with more of a superiority complex (based on completely nothing).

Simmer there bud. Just saying you both seem to enjoy letting me know when I’m wrong. 😂
- Chunk

As my wife says to me …. If you'll admit that you were wrong then I’ll admit that I’m right

As my wife says to me …. If you'll admit that you were wrong then I’ll admit that I’m right
- paulr

Man, what’s wrong with you guys, I’m the king of my castle. I’ll be back in a bit, have to go mop the floors.

I'll just say it was really disappointing to see him lose a battle at the blue line ends up on the wrong side of the puck and it ended up in the back of the net in a 1-1 game. I do think he's a 20 minute defenseman, i personally wouldn't play him 25 minutes but that's just me.
- BetweenTheDots

Besides the rolling puck we really don't know how strong his shoulder is right now?

Wiz has him at #56 (also Wiz, looks like a typo as you have him as a G right now). There is time to wait on him as there are plenty of F prospects to fill up Rockford next year.
- totem

Yeah, there was G in place of RHCentre, but in the start of the profile I did have Centre...

Cayden Lindstrom out 4-6 weeks with an injury.

https://twitter.com/Hocke.../1747013565922562281?s=20

Came across this after the discussion today.

https://twitter.com/Rizzy...tatus/1747094405876461615

As my wife says to me …. If you'll admit that you were wrong then I’ll admit that I’m right
- paulr

My wife says that if I tell you that you're right then we would both be wrong.

You’re probably right that Jones is more than a second pairing defenseman, I just with it was with another team. He’s good but not great at anything. And a big part of my issue is he has the contract of an elite defender and he’s no where close. When the time comes, and it’s coming, Jones is going to be an albatross on the roster and KD will have to pay big to move him out.
- paulr

This is going to get me banned, but Seth is closer to earning his contract than 19 or 88 did theirs. Of course it was payment for three cups, but it also lead to cap hell and the eventual downfall.. Whether Seth's contract will get blamed for that remains to be seen.

As the board seems to be looking for some size in this draft, was wondering about this player:

Dean Letourneau, C, 6-6, 210 playing USHL next year then Boston College (similar to Rinzel's path). Looks like a good scorer but has just started at Sioux Falls USHL.

https://www.eliteprospect...er/597680/dean-letourneau

https://thehockeynews.com...-prospect-dean-letourneau

Wiz has him at #56 (also Wiz, looks like a typo as you have him as a G right now). There is time to wait on him as there are plenty of F prospects to fill up Rockford next year.
- totem

I’ll do my best Chunk impersonation …. Adam Creighton.
- paulr

Hmmm..... Adam Creighton, 1989-90, 80 Games, 34G, 36A, 70 pts, and 224 PIM. Not too bad. That's not Probert-level face punching but still...... and good scoring too.

Not expecting that but was wondering if anyone knew anything about this Letourneau guy and if he's got NHL upside.....

Cayden Lindstrom out 4-6 weeks with an injury.

https://twitter.com/Hocke.../1747013565922562281?s=20
- boilermaker100

Tuned in to a Medicine Hat game last week and Lidstrom wasn't playing. Guess I know why now....... Really sucks though as many have him slotted behind Celebrini at #2. Makes a decision on him much more complicated for NHL franchises.

BM, Cam Robinson ranks near the top for me in prospects. Wrote for Dobber for a lotta yrs. A great follow.

Came across this after the discussion today.

https://twitter.com/Rizzy...tatus/1747094405876461615
- breadbag

Really hoping they sign Vlasic to a long term contract i think he's already better than Seth Jones

https://twitter.com/OviCl...fbEw5BFo5fQ2403jGaWw&s=19

I've never really been a big Seth Jones guy, but in my books he is the only top pair dman we've had since Keith/Seabrook declined with age. I think he has struggled at times with having to be "the guy" on the blueline with a team that has been stripped down of talent. I get that it sucks he lost that puck the other night, but I also realize that he was in his first game back after missing a month and that puck was bouncing.

It sucked, but I also can think of 3 or 4 other shifts where he made good plays in that game. I liked the play he tried to make on Dallas's empty net goal and he was the only one back to actually catch Pavelski to try to save the game. Jason D quit on the play or else the probably don't give up that empty net goal.

I would still argue that he is the best Hawks Dman when it comes to making the breakout pass and when it comes to activating and joining the attack when he roams down low. There have been some really good plays he's made this year from the half wall or by going down into the corner and setting up other players. By the stats/numbers he has also been one of the better Hawks PK dmen this season.

I wouldn't have traded for him if I was Stan Bowman of a few years ago and I wouldn't have signed him to such a big contract, but I just don't think he is "all bad" or dragging the team down at this point. If he underperforms when the team is good again, that is a different story.
- breadbag

I'd almost argue that Vlasic has the best outlet pass.

Jones is the okayest defender. Is he good at 1v1 - depends which direction he's skating, passing fine, shot ok, kind of mediocre at keep ins and his gap control, backwards skating and preventing zone entries are not good.

He gets over some of that with athleticism but once he starts slowing down - and it can be argued that he has after that leg break - it's gonna get pretty ugly and be problematic.

Is he a good player yeah. Is he a very good player, no not really. There's a toolset but he's not gonna win you a game or carry a team in the playoffs like Keith (who was mentioned earlier) or Makar or Hedman or a player of that quality.

He's basically an innings eater. Does that have value? Yup. Is it worth the money theyre spending, probably not but it's the situation theyre in.

Hmmm..... Adam Creighton, 1989-90, 80 Games, 34G, 36A, 70 pts, and 224 PIM. Not too bad. That's not Probert-level face punching but still...... and good scoring too.

Not expecting that but was wondering if anyone knew anything about this Letourneau guy and if he's got NHL upside.....
- totem

A comparison wasn’t the purpose of my post, I know absolutely nothing about this Letourneau kid and I barely remember Creighton. I was giving Chunk the gears.

I'd almost argue that Vlasic has the best outlet pass.

Jones is the okayest defender. Is he good at 1v1 - depends which direction he's skating, passing fine, shot ok, kind of mediocre at keep ins and his gap control, backwards skating and preventing zone entries are not good.

He gets over some of that with athleticism but once he starts slowing down - and it can be argued that he has after that leg break - it's gonna get pretty ugly and be problematic.

Is he a good player yeah. Is he a very good player, no not really. There's a toolset but he's not gonna win you a game or carry a team in the playoffs like Keith (who was mentioned earlier) or Makar or Hedman or a player of that quality.

He's basically an innings eater. Does that have value? Yup. Is it worth the money theyre spending, probably not but it's the situation theyre in.
- fattybeef

Jones's middle name should be turnstyle.

Really hoping they sign Vlasic to a long term contract i think he's already better than Seth Jones

https://twitter.com/OviCl...fbEw5BFo5fQ2403jGaWw&s=19
- BetweenTheDots

Vlasic has been very good and such a welcomed surprise this season. He uses that long reach and big frame to win battles for the puck along the boards and defend a lot of area. I think he has really established himself as a solid defensive dman and added a little bit of offensive upside. He probably won't ever produce a ton of points, but I can think of 3 or 4 times he has surprised the opposition with his quick thinking and speed to get a breakaway chance, just like he did last game.

He has taken some load off Murphy when it comes to having to eat Dzone starts for the Hawks and ultimately helps allow Luke Richardson to give Korchinski a bit more sheltered zone starts. I really hope they can sign him to a reasonable contract that works for both sides. If Korchinski settles in to being a pro, then they probably have their top 4 for the next year or two while the rest of the Hawks D work on climbing the ranks. (barring any big trades or deals) I think it will help the Dmen if they can play together a bit longer and develop a little bit of chemistry and even better familiarity. There is obviously some of that, but it's been a little bit of a shuffle this season with some new faces.

Really hoping they sign Vlasic to a long term contract i think he's already better than Seth Jones

https://twitter.com/OviCl...fbEw5BFo5fQ2403jGaWw&s=19
- BetweenTheDots

So the question is this, is Vlasic already better than Jones because Jones sucks or because Vlasic is that good? Both is not an option.
Edit- jones would be a nice asset as the RD on the second pair, the big issue is his contract, although his salary will be $8M or less for the last four years of his contract, but the AAV stays at $9.5M.