Just for poops and giggles, I looked at the bottom of the NHL standings five years ago. The bottom seven teams included LA, NJ, Detroit, Rangers and Edmonton (Buffalo and Ottawa were the other two).

Sure tough to build a playoff team with high picks, eh?
- mohel

This is interesting, Mo. But you know who puts this on its head? Vegas!! ...... LVG has shown us there is more than one way to skin a cat but man, how sustainable is this model and if they revise the LTIR rules I don't think the LVG model can work.

Help me out, Dots. Has any team ever traded an established young top 6 player for a late 1st unless the player was a cancer or disgruntled??????? Off the top of my head I can't think of one and would imagine if a GM did make that trade he won't collect an NHL paycheck for very long.

And, have you watched a NJ game within the last yr and a half. Cuz there is no way you have and have not seen the havoc Mier causes an opponent.... I'm sure it won't, but don't let me diminish the hate you have for Mier and power forwards.

Probably time for CAR to cut their losses and trade Svechnikov for a 3rd, cuz you know, what have they won?
- Mr Ricochet

I'd imagine there would be a lot of nuance involved. Only example I can think of is Dach and he brought in #13. Maybe you can consider Kotkaniemi but he was technically an RFA signing.

Their direction right now is backwards. They are at hockey .500 when they were above that last year, and most were expecting this year to be "the year" they finally got back to the playoffs. They had to trade away the best player they drafted during the last twelve years they've been trying to get back to the playoffs. They've traded for or signed as many impact players as they have drafted. Their best forward was a late bloomer who was a throw in on the Ryan O'Reilly trade.

Outside of a select few, no one is saying the Hawks should go trade two firsts for a star. Most here are saying they simply need to put competent NHL players around the kids as they learn. That means they will probably have to spend a bit more money, or give a bit more term, or give up a a higher value asset than some will be happy with, but It needs to be done.

EDM is kind of the same story. They didn't start to get good until they sold off some of their high end assets to better round out their team (I'd say Ekholm was by far their most important pick-up).

I'll repeat what I said before the last draft (which turned out to be mostly wrong). I don't see any way that they make all of the selections they currently have.
- Chunk

I was wrong, to an extent, on Kevyn Adams. I assumed he got the job, like a Rienhorn hire, cuz he'll work for 15 bucks an hour. But he's drafted incredibly well and inked his core/stars long term a million or two under their worth.

But not only are they not making noise they ain't making the playoffs!! Time to get a GM in there who has the balls and intelligence to add the piece(s) that will get this talented group deep into the playoffs.

Gotta trade a 1st(s) and prospects? Do it. But being scared to make a bold move ain't getting it done in BUF, at least not yet..... Same with CAR. Trade what you gotta for Guentzel and lift the cup.

I'd imagine there would be a lot of nuance involved. Only example I can think of is Dach and he brought in #13. Maybe you can consider Kotkaniemi but he was technically an RFA signing.
- Chunk

I don't know, Chunk. Would you consider Dach a top 6 when he was traded? Or a top 5 draft pick project?

And Kotkaniemi was an offer sheet signing, no? Is that what you mean when you say RFA signing?

My point is trading a late 1st for a legit young top 6 is a fanboy hypothetical. Sure, you're always looking to fleece tbe other guy but 99% of the time you gotta give to get and those GM's win cups.

I don't know, Chunk. Would you consider Dach a top 6 when he was traded? Or a top 5 draft pick project?

And Kotkaniemi was an offer sheet signing, no? Is that what you mean when you say RFA signing?

My point is trading a late 1st for a legit young top 6 is a fanboy hypothetical. Sure, you're always looking to fleece tbe other guy but 99% of the time you gotta give to get and those GM's win cups.
- Mr Ricochet

He was supposed to be the replacement for Toews, so yeah.

I was just grasping at air trying to find an example.

Help me out, Dots. Has any team ever traded an established young top 6 player for a late 1st unless the player was a cancer or disgruntled??????? Off the top of my head I can't think of one and would imagine if a GM did make that trade he won't collect an NHL paycheck for very long.

And, have you watched a NJ game within the last yr and a half. Cuz there is no way you have and have not seen the havoc Mier causes an opponent.... I'm sure it won't, but don't let me diminish the hate you have for Mier and power forwards.

Probably time for CAR to cut their losses and trade Svechnikov for a 3rd, cuz you know, what have they won?
- Mr Ricochet

Meier, Horvat, i think those were late 1st rounders they traded just to name 2

I was wrong, to an extent, on Kevyn Adams. I assumed he got the job, like a Rienhorn hire, cuz he'll work for 15 bucks an hour. But he's drafted incredibly well and inked his core/stars long term a million or two under their worth.

But not only are they not making noise they ain't making the playoffs!! Time to get a GM in there who has the balls and intelligence to add the piece(s) that will get this talented group deep into the playoffs.

Gotta trade a 1st(s) and prospects? Do it. But being scared to make a bold move ain't getting it done in BUF, at least not yet..... Same with CAR. Trade what you gotta for Guentzel and lift the cup.
- Mr Ricochet

Full disclosure, I have no idea why Buffalo is struggling this year. I've not followed them at all. Looks like their goalies aren't exactly setting the world on fire. What we do know is that they're on their fourth GM in 10 years and 7th coach. Not to mention they just traded their 5th top 10 draft pick of the last 10 years.

I personally just think that you need to have a strong enough team around these young players so that they can actually build off of the good things that they do and not have to be concerned that any little mistake they make will end up in the back of the net.

Jeff Skinner at that cap hit. As mentioned by LA Hawk when we were talking about comparable contract situations.
- 333inthe3rd

Since Skinner signed that deal he's had 40,33,35 goal seasons. He has 20 in 55 game so far. It's far from the worst contract in the league

Full disclosure, I have no idea why Buffalo is struggling this year. I've not followed them at all. Looks like their goalies aren't exactly setting the world on fire. What we do know is that they're on their fourth GM in 10 years and 7th coach. Not to mention they just traded their 5th top 10 draft pick of the last 10 years.

I personally just think that you need to have a strong enough team around these young players so that they can actually build off of the good things that they do and not have to be concerned that any little mistake they make will end up in the back of the net.
- Chunk

Coaching and goaltending

Coaching and goaltending
- GPHawksfan

But I thought Granato was fantastic...

Meier, Horvat, i think those were late 1st rounders they traded just to name 2
- BetweenTheDots

Both were going to be UFA's, and not going to resign, so the teams should of let them go for nothing then?

Maybe KD has to plan a tank in the 26/27 season. There’s a 14 year old kid Prabh Bhathal who’s already out scored Jonathan Toews for the U15 AAA Winnipeg Thrashers by 31 goals and is one point behind him. And he still has a full year to go. This year his stats are 32 games, 83 goals and 119 points.


https://www.eliteprospect...ayer/970435/prabh-bhathal

Maybe KD has to plan a tank in the 26/27 season. There’s a 14 year old kid Prabh Bhathal who’s already out scored Jonathan Toews for the U15 AAA Winnipeg Thrashers by 31 goals and is one point behind him. And he still has a full year to go. This year his stats are 32 games, 83 goals and 119 points.


https://www.eliteprospect...ayer/970435/prabh-bhathal
- paulr

More than twice as many goals than assists. He's selfish.

More than twice as many goals than assists. He's selfish.
- Chunk

Probably a bust anyway.

Full disclosure, I have no idea why Buffalo is struggling this year. I've not followed them at all. Looks like their goalies aren't exactly setting the world on fire. What we do know is that they're on their fourth GM in 10 years and 7th coach. Not to mention they just traded their 5th top 10 draft pick of the last 10 years.

I personally just think that you need to have a strong enough team around these young players so that they can actually build off of the good things that they do and not have to be concerned that any little mistake they make will end up in the back of the net.
- Chunk

Goaltending and young d core is why they struggling. They got good nucleus but the d core just needs time to grow. Same with Goaltending imo.

Both were going to be UFA's, and not going to resign, so the teams should of let them go for nothing then?
- LAHawk

Huh?

Goaltending and young d core is why they struggling. They got good nucleus but the d core just needs time to grow. Same with Goaltending imo.
- Scott1977

No Scott they need to start trading away all their 1st round picks for guys who are going to be free agents and sign them for big money

This is interesting, Mo. But you know who puts this on its head? Vegas!! ...... LVG has shown us there is more than one way to skin a cat but man, how sustainable is this model and if they revise the LTIR rules I don't think the LVG model can work.
- Mr Ricochet

Hello, Rico. Personally, I think Vegas is an exception to most of this given their expansion status. They didn't have to overcome the mistakes that all GM's make.

That said, for a team to be great it needs 4-5ish players near the top of the league, kinda near the same age range. It also needs several more really good players. I guess you could possibly trade for a great player or sign one as a UFA; but to me, the draft is where you get the core and your odds of getting a great player are near the top of round one.

This doesn't mean a team shouldn't trade for good players or sign free agents; in my book, though, the core of a very good team comes mainly (again, not exclusively) from the draft.

But I thought Granato was fantastic...
- Chunk

Yes Coaching and goaltending.

But with a lot of young talent,I feel they need a veteran or two - like Foligno. With a lot of youth and some of the youth is still very new, not yet close to as good as they may become. So the team needs to establish an identity and perhaps more physicality

I like teams that have big redwoods on their backend and Buffalo has one in Samuelson

What a surprise their B Bowen trade

Great trade for Buffalo. Byram has the potential to be that Makar type, (im not saying he’s as good) a guy who can drive offense from the backend. Dahlin, Power, Samuelson and now Byram is as good and balanced a backend as there is.

Meier, Horvat, i think those were late 1st rounders they traded just to name 2
- BetweenTheDots

VAN gets the 2024 NYI 1st, Raty and Beauvillier, both 1st rd picks IIRC. By my count that's not a late 1st rd pick for Horvat, a 2C. https://nhltradetracker.c..._team/Vancouver_Canucks/1

And Meir was not traded for a late 1st. https://www.espn.com/nhl/...e-timo-meier-trade-sharks

For what it's worth I think NYI and NJ did very well getting top 6 guys but they paid. , at least on paper.

Keep trying, Dots. You may be correct but I do not know of a late 1st for an established young top 6.

Hahaha, where shall i start

so it was smart to sign Lindy Ruff to a contract extension earlier in the season and then fire him? I never like Ruff but boy oh boy Timo is really paying off for them this season.

Kings fire their coach this year, PLD seems to be really paying off for the Kings as well, i like that they didn't give up their own pick and it was a 2nd round pick but they did give up a nice prospect in the trade and leveraged themselves against the cap signing PLD.

Oilers fire their coach this year but in all honesty McDavid is at that age where they have to try to win a Cup like the Golden Knights. So i liked the move for the defenseman

I liked Stevie Ys shrewd deal with the Senators he gave up a first that he traded for and only a 4 year contract with Cat at a reasonable price.

If KD wants to package a late 1st rounder for a young established top 6 forward i have no problem with that, i just don't want it to be 2 firsts and prospects. And not a disgruntled forward

All these teams have to show for their trades is making the playoffs banners and being up against the cap banners. Well except for Detroit but I'm sure they will be up against the cap pretty quick here.

Added, i don't know if it'll pay off but i like the Sabres direction right now, slow and steady, let your already good players get more playing experience and keep building through the draft.
- BetweenTheDots

Vegas has made lots of good trades. 5/6 playoff appearances, a wcf appearance, cup appearance and a cup win. Pretty pretty good.

The Eichel deal got them a Cup so probably worth it. They gave up a lot for him.

Martinez helped solidify their blue line - two seconds.

Stone was only a second and two bodies. Brannstrom probably a cautionary tale on overvaluing mid first round picks when an excellent NHL player is available.

The Sabres (and Ottawa) have been trending up and all built from within. Not really great there. Just seems to be mediocre season after mediocre season even though they have a "strong core".

The Avalanche made some nice moves today.

The Devils have had injury problems all season, mainly Hamilton being out with a torn peck all year. Hughes and Nico have both missed games as well. And their goaltending has been abhorrent. Can't fault them for trying and Ruff has never been known to play a defensively sound system but Meier has been bad this year.

PLD hasn't scored at his typical rate but McLellan is kind of a red ass and does have a shelf life. At just over 4 years probably ran his course there. Not sure thats the players fault.

The kings getting Gaborik for two seconds was a good move. Def helped those teams. Jeff Carter for a first to LA worked out ok for them.

O'Reilly going to the Blues was 3 players a first and a second.

Kessel going to the Penguins was super important for those cup runs.

Point being - when an impact player becomes available and you need a player at that position - you go get that player. Sometimes it doesn't work out perfectly but in many situations it's what makes the biggest difference.

Hannifin to LVG

VAN gets the 2024 NYI 1st, Raty and Beauvillier, both 1st rd picks IIRC. By my count that's not a late 1st rd pick for Horvat, a 2C. https://nhltradetracker.c..._team/Vancouver_Canucks/1



And Meir was not traded for a late 1st. https://www.espn.com/nhl/...e-timo-meier-trade-sharks

For what it's worth I think NYI and NJ did very well getting top 6 guys but they paid. , at least on paper.

Keep trying, Dots. You may be correct but I do not know of a late 1st for an established young top 6.
- Mr Ricochet

Your right Rico, so i really don't want the Blackhawks to make a move like this, but if all these other players that were thrown in like Raty and Beau aren't in their long term plans well we already know Beau didn't it really is just a 1st round a late 1st.

I still prefer what Buffalo is doing.

Great trade for Buffalo. Byram has the potential to be that Makar type, (im not saying he’s as good) a guy who can drive offense from the backend. Dahlin, Power, Samuelson and now Byram is as good and balanced a backend as there is.
- paulr

* omitted Jokiharju

Which is ok. He is ok but certainly not one of their best dmen