Ryan Wilson: Penguins opt for quantity over quality in misstep Penguins opt for quantity over quality in misstep

No this was not good value but this is also the most uncharitable analysis of these prospects possible.

LeBrun:

PIT trades Jake Guentzel (25% retained) and Ty Smith to Carolina in exchange for Michael Bunting, Ville Koivunen, Vasili Ponomarev, Cruz Lucius, Carolina’s 1st RD pick in 2024 (Conditional) and Carolina’s 5th RD pick in 2024 (Conditional).
- chimpira

I looked at 3 different preseason top ten lists. All of these guys got a ranking from 4-6, but all also missed the top 10 completely. (Clear top 3 for Canes). What I gather is what's similar to what Vic was saying.

Ponomarev looks like a guy just blocked in Carolina who is ready to play now. Looks like a possible 3C. Also might be the only immediate help besides Bunting.

Koivunen has doubled his point total this season, so he I think has the best boom upside. He played a little in the AHL last year (but only 1 points in 12 games) so hopefully come over at 21 but probably needs time there.

Lucius is still a month from 20 and working on his second point per game season in college. Feels like the longest shot of the 3, but still probably a top ten prospect for us.

If the pick becomes a first I'll feel ok, but this feels kind of light without it. I'm not sure yet if these guys are above the Puustinen/Poulin tier of prospects. It does deepen the pool, but I still think Yager and maybe Blomquist or Pickering are the only guys I'd currently call potential core pieces.

Kyle Dubas, our golden boy GM, won 1 playoff round in 5 years as GM of the Leafs. That included two humiliating losses to CBJ and the hated HABS. TRUTH…without a lottery win, the Pens are in for many years at the bottom. Bunting?

I looked at 3 different preseason top ten lists. All of these guys got a ranking from 4-6, but all also missed the top 10 completely. (Clear top 3 for Canes). What I gather is what's similar to what Vic was saying.

Ponomarev looks like a guy just blocked in Carolina who is ready to play now. Looks like a possible 3C. Also might be the only immediate help besides Bunting.

Koivunen has doubled his point total this season, so he I think has the best boom upside. He played a little in the AHL last year (but only 1 points in 12 games) so hopefully come over at 21 but probably needs time there.

Lucius is still a month from 20 and working on his second point per game season in college. Feels like the longest shot of the 3, but still probably a top ten prospect for us.

If the pick becomes a first I'll feel ok, but this feels kind of light without it. I'm not sure yet if these guys are above the Puustinen/Poulin tier of prospects. It does deepen the pool, but I still think Yager and maybe Blomquist or Pickering are the only guys I'd currently call potential core pieces.
- Tojo.

Whether or not Ponomarev is a viable 3C is really going to affect how I view this trade. A lot.

I like the Finn. Not a blue chipper but has boom or bust potential putting up a PPG against men in an admittedly lesser league with a different play style. If anyone is going to make this trade look fine in hindsight it’s him

Cruz Lucious doesn’t seem all that great but he’s an all name type of guy. Can’t stop reading it as Pimp Lucious from R Kelly’s smash hit urban opera: Trapped in the Closet.

No this was not good value but this is also the most uncharitable analysis of these prospects possible.
- Victoro311

I know RW isn't a big prospect guy, and citing one attribute like speed feels incomplete, but I tend to agree with him. Tentatively I'd have the top two prospects in this trade in the 5-8 range for Pens prospects. I didn't expect near as much as some, but I think we should have gotten a first or someone who would have completed with our top 3.

I know RW isn't a big prospect guy, and citing one attribute like speed feels incomplete, but I tend to agree with him. Tentatively I'd have the top two prospects in this trade in the 5-8 range for Pens prospects. I didn't expect near as much as some, but I think we should have gotten a first or someone who would have completed with our top 3.
- Tojo.

Our prospect pool is really bad. Yager and Blomqvist are a cut above and then there’s Pickering somewhere but then there’s nothing. This is Poulin’s last year as a legitimate prospect before we have to consider him as entering his prime and he hasn’t sniffed the NHL. Pustinen is 24, not really a prospect. Same with O’Conner. The Finn we got back intrigues me more than Pickering and the Russian seems a lot closer to ready to take the role we hoped Poulin could take.

Again, this was bad value. We lost this trade by a landslide. But these are already some of our best prospects. Sure a lot of that is because our bar is super low but still

Dubas proves he is a moron. This is a really bad trade ! He’s lucky he signed for a lot of years. I thought for sure penguins would get Scott Marrow . Head scratcher …..

Middlestadt for Bowen Byram was a deal Colorado made straight up

I think I'd rather have Byram than the mixed bag that we ended up getting

Guentzel > Middlestadt

Byram > Mixed bag of B level prospects and a probably 2nd

There is no way Sid is ready ride off into the sunset with this Dubas clan. He will ask for, and be given a trade to a team that matters. If he doesn’t, well, he gave up.

Our prospect pool is really bad. Yager and Blomqvist are a cut above and then there’s Pickering somewhere but then there’s nothing. This is Poulin’s last year as a legitimate prospect before we have to consider him as entering his prime and he hasn’t sniffed the NHL. Pustinen is 24, not really a prospect. Same with O’Conner. The Finn we got back intrigues me more than Pickering and the Russian seems a lot closer to ready to take the role we hoped Poulin could take.

Again, this was bad value. We lost this trade by a landslide. But these are already some of our best prospects. Sure a lot of that is because our bar is super low but still
- Victoro311

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Koivunen profiles actually pretty similar to Puustinen, who is similar to our 5th round pick this year Ilyin. It's nice to have those guys in the system putting up good numbers in European men's leagues after being late picks, but they tend to lack some physical tools. So my enthusiasm is tempered until I see what they do in the AHL, but I usually take notes of them.

I think Poulin and Ponamarev battle for the 3C job next year if Eller is traded and have them similar. I think I take Ilyin over Koivunen because he broke out at 19 as opposed to 20. But those are the guys I'd rank 5-8 for the Pens and are around the same tier. And I obviously like Poulin more than most so having guys like that is a boost.

For reference I go Yager, Blomquist, Pickering, Murashov as my top 4. Poulin was 5, Ilyin 6, then it drops off. Ponomarev and Koivunen are in there but not sure exactly where I'd rank them 5-8.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Koivunen profiles actually pretty similar to Puustinen, who is similar to our 5th round pick this year Ilyin. It's nice to have those guys in the system putting up good numbers in European men's leagues after being late picks, but they tend to lack some physical tools. So my enthusiasm is tempered until I see what they do in the AHL, but I usually take notes of them.

I think Poulin and Ponamarev battle for the 3C job next year if Eller is traded and have them similar. I think I take Ilyin over Koivunen because he broke out at 19 as opposed to 20. But those are the guys I'd rank 5-8 for the Pens and are around the same tier. And I obviously like Poulin more than most so having guys like that is a boost.

For reference I go Yager, Blomquist, Pickering, Murashov as my top 4. Poulin was 5, Ilyin 6, then it drops off. Ponomarev and Koivunen are in there but not sure exactly where I'd rank them 5-8.
- Tojo.

I will give you this for your Poulin love: I don’t understand why we haven’t given him a sink or swim opportunity yet. He may not have earned it but he also hasn’t not earned it either, if that makes any sense. He’s doing what you want him to do in the AHL and he’s supposedly one of our more promising guys in the system. Why are we wasting time on warm bodies like Gruden and Harkens that aren’t contributing to points in the standings when we may as well take this lost season and at least see if Poulin is a hockey player.

I did just see it's the Flyers second not the Canes. That does make me feel a little better as that's IMO the best asset in this trade.

I will give you this for your Poulin love: I don’t understand why we haven’t given him a sink or swim opportunity yet. He may not have earned it but he also hasn’t not earned it either, if that makes any sense. He’s doing what you want him to do in the AHL and he’s supposedly one of our more promising guys in the system. Why are we wasting time on warm bodies like Gruden and Harkens that aren’t contributing to points in the standings when we may as well take this lost season and at least see if Poulin is a hockey player.
- Victoro311

Sully
Hates
Young
Players

Which is crazy considering when he first came up from Wilkes Barrie he brought Sheary, Rust, Murray, and some 4th liners that I can't remember and it literally turned the team around and they won back to back cups

I did just see it's the Flyers second not the Canes. That does make me feel a little better as that's IMO the best asset in this trade.
- Tojo.

I think in the lower first-third round pick you’re content if your pick ends up being a third liner. I think the best asset is the Finn but I think the Russian is a better asset than the pick because he has a reasonably decent chance of being a 3C which is a great outcome for the pick range that we’re about to get.

Sully
Hates
Young
Players

Which is crazy considering when he first came up from Wilkes Barrie he brought Sheary, Rust, Murray, and some 4th liners that I can't remember and it literally turned the team around and they won back to back cups
- RoloTahmasee

Yes Sullivan is stale but Dubas also has the final say of who gets called up and who gets put on waivers. He picked Harkens off waivers and never put him back on them after he proved not to be an NHL player. He decided to call up Gruden who has absolutely no future here or anywhere else for that matter. He kept throwing darts on the waiver wire rather than saying we got a guy in WBS that might be better than another team’s reject and it’s time to test him out.

I’m a Dubas fan. I think he’s a smart cookie and a good head to front an organization. But his maiden voyage here has been rife with mistakes that need to be addressed.

I will give you this for your Poulin love: I don’t understand why we haven’t given him a sink or swim opportunity yet. He may not have earned it but he also hasn’t not earned it either, if that makes any sense. He’s doing what you want him to do in the AHL and he’s supposedly one of our more promising guys in the system. Why are we wasting time on warm bodies like Gruden and Harkens that aren’t contributing to points in the standings when we may as well take this lost season and at least see if Poulin is a hockey player.
- Victoro311

The only reasonable explanation I can come up with is he missed so many games the last two years and he needs waivers next year so they want to give him developmental time now. But I'd personally want to at least see him at the NHL level now because they will have some tough choices with all the young, waiver eligible players they have.

Can't imagine a team like the Pens waiving a former first without giving him a shot. But can you write his name in ink for a roster spot next year?

If I were Sullivan, I would resign in the offseason. He will find a job with a contender. The Pittsburgh dream is over

The only reasonable explanation I can come up with is he missed so many games the last two years and he needs waivers next year so they want to give him developmental time now. But I'd personally want to at least see him at the NHL level now because they will have some tough choices with all the young, waiver eligible players they have.

Can't imagine a team like the Pens waiving a former first without giving him a shot. But can you write his name in ink for a roster spot next year?
- Tojo.

He wasn’t Dubas’ pick. GMs value prospects way different especially as they get older. U wouldn’t be shocked if Dubas just kind of throws him away, first rounder or not.

If I were Sullivan, I would resign in the offseason. He will find a job with a contender. The Pittsburgh dream is over
- parmen

Who are you? Did you know that the guy who played Mr. Belvedere once sat on his own two balls while on set and they had to stop filming for several weeks while he recovered?

Sully
Hates
Young
Players

Which is crazy considering when he first came up from Wilkes Barrie he brought Sheary, Rust, Murray, and some 4th liners that I can't remember and it literally turned the team around and they won back to back cups
- RoloTahmasee

This is sooo true.

Sully has to play the elder to keep his job. He's got someone to blame then. Right now I'd rather see pickering or shea than graves. Hell even jack johnson or scuderi.

I did just see it's the Flyers second not the Canes. That does make me feel a little better as that's IMO the best asset in this trade.
- Tojo.

I kinda like the trade TBH. Bunting, 3 prospects and picks and younger.. Anything is better than what's in WB. I was a bit concerned about dubas but his trades seems solid? It's something different at least. Next up Fire sullivan already.

Waddell is a GM that seems to know what he's doing. So I trust his picks of talent/players as opposed to alot of the other GM's in this league. It's a gamble that's all.

I kinda like the trade TBH. Bunting, 3 prospects and picks and younger.. Anything is better than what's in WB. I was a bit concerned about dubas but his trades seems solid? It's something different at least. Next up Fire sullivan already.

Waddell is a GM that seems to know what he's doing. So I trust his picks of talent/players as opposed to alot of the other GM's in this league. It's a gamble that's all.
- jb55

The trade in the vacuum is bad but if you accept it happened and move on, some of it these pieces is are intriguing. Maybe this is some of my 76ers fandom taking over and slipping back into my tank brain but I like two of these prospects and the third has a sick name

Bunting is my favorite player of this era of Penguins.

Bunting is my favorite player of this era of Penguins.
- Grinder47

Glad that you already have your new guy for when Carter retires