I know I posted that I thought some players had quit and maybe that was true, maybe it wasn't, but I don't think the team has quit. I just think they are back in last year's mode just waiting for the next shoe to drop. But I also do not believe the team is gassed. That is just a lame excuse. The Flyers players have played roughly the same number of games and roughly the same number of minutes as every other player on every other team. I am sure they are banged up after a long season, but not more so than any other player. The Flyers went into this season without a 1D and a 1C but at least they had a franchise goalie. Now they have none of these key positions filled.
- jd250

Let me ask you this. You have a smallish kid and a world class marathoner both running a 10k. They both have to run the same distance in approximately the same time. Do you think one will have to expend a LOT more energy to accomplish this or not?

Veteran or not, Couts was expected to perform like a top 6 center on this team and he wasn't the past couple of months here. I don't by the overuse excuse either. Couts had the offseason to train normally (his words not mine) and though he was playing 20+ minutes a night for a stretch, that is not unheard of in this league. If Couts were hurt, I am sure that Torts, or any coach, would not have benched him and stated he needed to be better, so I have to presume Couts was not hurt at the time of the benching. Look, Atkinson after his first year stated this place was like a country club, and whether you want to believe it or not, Couts was brought up in that country club atmosphere. Thus it is entirely believable to me that Couts was expecting different treatment and if so, he picked the wrong coach to expect that from. I have been posting since back in December that I didn't think Couts was right and I thought that maybe he was hurt. But the truth is, right now before his injury he just wasn't that good. These players are professional athletes. They may not like something that happens, like Couts being benched, but I think it's a very reasonable expectation for the team to put this aside and go out and perform, because that is what real professionals do.
- jd250

If I had a Shorsey gif I would post "SO DUMB"

Training is not the same as game wear and tear.

Coming off basically a season and a half of not playing and two back surgeries, there should have been a plan to his minutes wisely. Not just plaing him at 20+ minutes until he broke down.

Yes they are professionals. Also they are human.

No one is saying that Couturier was great. But the way it was handled wasn't great. I believe that is what people are bringing up. For a coach who preaches accountability, he seemed not to bring that himself. Where is he being accountable for a bottom of the league PP. His usage of OT lines.

No one is saying Torts didn't do some ok things. But lets not think he is absolved from what is happening here to end the season and part of the reason some things went bad.

Let me ask you this. You have a smallish kid and a world class marathoner both running a 10k. They both have to run the same distance in approximately the same time. Do you think one will have to expend a LOT more energy to accomplish this or not?
- MBFlyerfan

so the flyers are smaller kids, not professional athletes?

so the flyers are smaller kids, not professional athletes?
- Peter Richards

for this comparison, what do you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDR5P0S5cwE
For what it's worth

not sure if you are being sarcastic but I sort of agree with this.

I actually hope Torts is here for at least another year because I'm interested in seeing how the players respond to the idea that the coach isn't going anywhere, opposite of what has happened in the past. just as the coach needs to learn how to work with these players - and he does need to learn this - the players equally need to learn how to work with the coach rather than shriveling up and saying "we'll just wait for the next coach, hope he's nicer!"
- anti-lame

not kidding as wanted tk sanheim ex selke laugton gone for a while now.

I do. The on ice product and the outcomes clearly changed afterwards.
They lost Walker/ Seeler on defense, their best defensive forward was scratched/ demoted. Hence, defensive structure has collapsed.

In addition, Couts is a captain and a leader, the tight locker room did not take well the leader being dragged through the mud.

Anyway, that's my conspiracy theory. I am willing to entertain any other.
- missingmike

1-8 since the scratching. Pretty much says it all.

We'd have to throw in a second rounder too.
- TheFreak

well, of course! Chuckie two trade style

I think you are missing the point. It wasn't the scratch per se, it was the way Torts went about it imo. He should've said, we understand Coots has been overused and his game has slipped as a result. We need to reduce his minutes or give him some time to regain his mojo.

Torts saying, "he needs to be better" and then cutting off the conversation questions was bullpoop. He talks about communication...blah blah blah. Torts needs to read the metaphorical room better. He would say he was being honest, but ironically he was not being honest with himself. The only one acting like a toddler was Torts.

The tactic was typical Torts, the one trick of a one trick pony.
- MBFlyerfan

Exactly... he should have said exactly what Briere said. He had multiple injuries while loggin a ton of minutes early in the season and needed a night off. Simple as that...

as I posted just now - sitting down and having a 1 on 1 and hugging it out and talking about each others feelings regarding his decision is defeating the purpose of the scratch. it's a tactic that did not work. I'm not even saying it was the right move. Torts is aware of his shelf life. the way you and others here are mad about it is exactly what he wanted from the players. he was actively trying to piss off this group to light a fire. it failed.

but explaining it to him like a gentleman and having a nice handshake about it defeats the purpose.

i agree it's an old school tactic and probably doesn't work in todays NHL. thats on Torts. But at the same time I wish Coots didnt have his agent come out and whine. i thought that was lame. put on the big boy pants and move on.

but at least he tried something. way better than watching AV sip on (frank)ing martinis.
- anti-lame

I have not read anywhere he needed a cuddle session and that is your take. He could have communicated w/ his newly minted captain. The lack of communication is a classic Torts tactic. It did not work, as you said, but the way he went about it was ridiculous.

Tortorella saw the team slipping and decided to try to do what he did in Tampa, uniting the team around a dislike of him.

Didn't work.
- BINGO!

just like in NY as well...

Lack of talent, injuries, special teams, goaltending, structure, puck luck etc are MUCH bigger factors than anything that had to do with "quitting".

HOWEVER, players starting to lose respect for the coach en masse will have some tiny effect on the ice. It's not "quitting" as people put it, it's more a creeping decay in their ability to pull in the same direction. And with margins being what they are this time of year, that loss of edge could have drastic results on every game and every battle.
- Tomahawk

Great post... could not agree more.

I have not read anywhere he needed a cuddle session and that is your take. He could have communicated w/ his newly minted captain. The lack of communication is a classic Torts tactic. It did not work, as you said, but the way he went about it was ridiculous.
- Flyfly

with what he was trying to accomplish (get players angry) there is no other way to go about it. we can argue all day whether the tactic is good or bad, that's not even my point. the point is he wasn't going to get anyone angry and rally against him by explaining himself and communicating it and being mr. nice guy.

now if we want to talk about whether that whole concept is stupid or not, that's a whole different discussion.

If I had a Shorsey gif I would post "SO DUMB"

Training is not the same as game wear and tear.

Coming off basically a season and a half of not playing and two back surgeries, there should have been a plan to his minutes wisely. Not just plaing him at 20+ minutes until he broke down.

Yes they are professionals. Also they are human.

No one is saying that Couturier was great. But the way it was handled wasn't great. I believe that is what people are bringing up. For a coach who preaches accountability, he seemed not to bring that himself. Where is he being accountable for a bottom of the league PP. His usage of OT lines.

No one is saying Torts didn't do some ok things. But lets not think he is absolved from what is happening here to end the season and part of the reason some things went bad.
- J35Bacher

EXACTLY!!

Absolute bull$hit! They did not quit! This team is gassed and I said it after the Isles game last Monday night. This quitting crap is just stupid/lazy analysis. It's like blaming the goaltending for all their faults. They were gassed in the Islander game (15 games in 30 days against sturdy competition). They regained some life after 3 days off and deserved a better fate in Buffalo, and then they were bushed again Saturday in the back to back game. When Morgan Frost is your #1 center you are screwed. Did he play in either one of those games?
- Phillywhiteout

good job, your takes are given after the fact....I said it 3-4 weeks ago, touting theyd be gassed because of the 11-7, with ND being one of the 11....You threw a emoji filled hissy fit, as you always do.

keep oinking, pig

with what he was trying to accomplish (get players angry) there is no other way to go about it. we can argue all day whether the tactic is good or bad, that's not even my point. the point is he wasn't going to get anyone angry and rally against him by explaining himself and communicating it and being mr. nice guy.

now if we want to talk about whether that whole concept is stupid or not, that's a whole different discussion.
- anti-lame

agree completely... I would argue that it was a predictable tactic from Torts and it really made no impact. To me, Torts has his bag of tricks and when they don't work out he is out of gas as a coach. I no way do I think he will not be back next year. This franchise will ride or die with Torts. The question is how many times will he go back to his bag of tricks next year?

It is the same thing over and over. Eventually, the players will turn on him just like TB and NY. It is only a matter of time...

with what he was trying to accomplish (get players angry) there is no other way to go about it. we can argue all day whether the tactic is good or bad, that's not even my point. the point is he wasn't going to get anyone angry and rally against him by explaining himself and communicating it and being mr. nice guy.

now if we want to talk about whether that whole concept is stupid or not, that's a whole different discussion.
- anti-lame

I think as a coach you want to foster determination and focus. IMO through years of life experience, all anger does is hurt focus. Anger is a distraction. We see it all the time. When a player gets angry during a game 9 times out of 10 they do something stupid. They LOSE focus. They hurt the team.

Torts equates anger with effort and determination. I disagree with that concept.

I do. The on ice product and the outcomes clearly changed afterwards.y
They lost Walker/ Seeler on defense, their best defensive forward was scratched/ demoted. Hence, defensive structure has collapsed.

In addition, Couts is a captain and a leader, the tight locker room did not take well the leader being dragged through the mud.

Anyway, that's my conspiracy theory. I am willing to entertain any other.
- missingmike

All of that suggests that they quit?

for this comparison, what do you think?
- MBFlyerfan

i think it's a terrible comparison. they are professional athletes. all teams play 82 games.

I think as a coach you want to foster determination and focus. IMO through years of life experience, all anger does is hurt focus. Anger is a distraction. We see it all the time. When a player gets angry during a game 9 times out of 10 they do something stupid. They LOSE focus. They hurt the team.

Torts equates anger with effort and determination. I disagree with that concept.
- MBFlyerfan

all valid points. i was merely trying to convey that everyone being up in arms about it is the point. it just didn't work.

I do. They saw how he was being used in the first half of the season and understood what his presence had to do with their success. They also saw him start to break down from overuse. A good coach would stop riding him so hard and try to adjust his usage. What their coach did instead was throw him under the bus when he started to falter. Treat him like some green rookie instead of the veteran he is. Players understand the inherent lameness of how Torts chose to deal with the situation, the hypocrisy of it.

We can disagree but if I were in that room I would not be too happy about that. I would see it as the coach deflecting blame and not seeing the big picture to sooth his own ego. But that is just me.
- MBFlyerfan

All of that is true but the question is would they all just quit on everything they worked for all season? Would they quit on their other teammates just to protest how Couturier was treated? Quit knowing it would lead to not making the playoffs? Team being unhappy about how Couturier was treated? Sure. Thow away the season because if it. Doesn't add up.

All of that is true but the question is would they all just quit on everything they worked for all season? Would they quit on their other teammates just to protest how Couturier was treated? Quit knowing it would lead to not making the playoffs? Team being unhappy about how Couturier was treated? Sure. Thow away the season because if it. Doesn't add up.
- MJL

agree cliff

Veteran or not, Couts was expected to perform like a top 6 center on this team and he wasn't the past couple of months here. I don't by the overuse excuse either. Couts had the offseason to train normally (his words not mine) and though he was playing 20+ minutes a night for a stretch, that is not unheard of in this league. If Couts were hurt, I am sure that Torts, or any coach, would not have benched him and stated he needed to be better, so I have to presume Couts was not hurt at the time of the benching. Look, Atkinson after his first year stated this place was like a country club, and whether you want to believe it or not, Couts was brought up in that country club atmosphere. Thus it is entirely believable to me that Couts was expecting different treatment and if so, he picked the wrong coach to expect that from. I have been posting since back in December that I didn't think Couts was right and I thought that maybe he was hurt. But the truth is, right now before his injury he just wasn't that good. These players are professional athletes. They may not like something that happens, like Couts being benched, but I think it's a very reasonable expectation for the team to put this aside and go out and perform, because that is what real professionals do.
- jd250

Let's start with some simple facts. When Couturier was injured on Jan 13th. Here are the minutes played for the Flyers centers.


Couturier 802:13
Laughton 669:27
Poehling 517:17
Frost 490:13

I think a lot of things have played a part in the Flyers downfall this season, but to me the biggest one is the goal tending. I told all of you that I thought Hart was a franchise goalie and we are seeing now just how important he was to this team. Since March 1st the Flyers have allowed the 3rd most goals 5v5 in the league, their PK has been one of the worst in the league and the save % for their goalies is around .870. Since the Flyers PP has been abysmal for the entire season, throughout the season the Flyers have been generating offense off the rush and doing so by taking more risks. They could do this because they had confidence in their goalies. But over this last 4-5 weeks, the goaltending has been abysmal and the impact can be seen. The Flyers can't score and they can't defend either. This is the second season in a row that Ersson has faded down the stretch. And throwing Fedotov to the wolves when clearly he was not ready was a bad decision also. To me this is season's collapse is the same ol' story, on the Flyers' goaltending. Carter Hart is a scumbag if proven guilty for what he did, and his absence has sunk this team in the short term, it just took a little time to be realized.
- jd250

Goaltending and play on the ice are symbiotic. Goaltending is not the biggest reason. The biggest reason is by far the team breaking down physically and emotionally due to playing at playoff level intensity for the full season just to be competitive. It reached it's apex after the 7 game gauntlent where the team gave it all they had left. They are now on empty.

Hart has never in his career been remotely close to a franchise goalie level.

I know I posted that I thought some players had quit and maybe that was true, maybe it wasn't, but I don't think the team has quit. I just think they are back in last year's mode just waiting for the next shoe to drop. But I also do not believe the team is gassed. That is just a lame excuse. The Flyers players have played roughly the same number of games and roughly the same number of minutes as every other player on every other team. I am sure they are banged up after a long season, but not more so than any other player. The Flyers went into this season without a 1D and a 1C but at least they had a franchise goalie. Now they have none of these key positions filled.
- jd250

Other teams haven't been playing at the level of intensity that the Flyers have been playing at all season just to survive. Tortorella started pushing them in camp tempo wise and we are now seeing the long term effects of that. I told you long ago that the Flyers success was a mirage. I'm just surprised that they hung on as long as they did.