He was just a solid all around and so consistent. There were many nights he was the best forward on the team. He was so much more than his point totals
- breadbag

Sure but when he was serving his major at the end of the game it was his teammates who bailed his ass out. Incredibly

Hossa is a fantastic hockey player, but so is Matthews. What I'm saying is this, if you took Hossa from 2010 and put him on the Leafs today you would get the same result, if you put Matthews on the 2010 Blackhawks you would get the same result, 2010 team may have been one of the most talented teams in history, Maple Leafs not even close. Depth depth depth
- BetweenTheDots

No, if you put Hossa on this Leaf team you would most definitely get maximum effort. Matthews and Marner are showing little effort. That’s the argument I’ve made, it’s the effort, or lack thereof, the regular season superstars are making.

No, if you put Hossa on this Leaf team you would most definitely get maximum effort. Matthews and Marner are showing little effort. That’s the argument I’ve made, it’s the effort, or lack thereof, the regular season superstars are making.
- paulr

You say that every year

I get that emotions are running high and this is fun to say but it's just so far from the truth.

In the past four post-seasons the Leafs are up 22-11 in goals at 5v5 when Marner is on the ice. (67% goal share) Not expected goals, not Corsi, just plain old actual goals.

Per Jfresh

I mean i don't know if this is true or not but i think that's pretty good especially since he's not trying

You say that every year

I get that emotions are running high and this is fun to say but it's just so far from the truth.

In the past four post-seasons the Leafs are up 22-11 in goals at 5v5 when Marner is on the ice. (67% goal share) Not expected goals, not Corsi, just plain old actual goals.

Per Jfresh

I mean i don't know if this is true or not but i think that's pretty good especially since he's not trying
- BetweenTheDots

That settles it then, Marner and Matthews are post season superstars as well.

I'm at Portillos now.
- rpeters01

Headed there a bit later.
- HawkintheD

You guys have to rub it in? No Portillos by me, but I do have a beef place here in SW FL, about 20 minutes from me. I believe that Wiz has a Portillos in the Tampa area.

I'm at Portillos now.
- rpeters01



You guys have to rub it in? No Portillos by me, but I do have a beef place here in SW FL, about 20 minutes from me. I believe that Wiz has a Portillos in the Tampa area.
- Angotti

There's still hope they are expanding under the new owners. Indy just got Portillos, Giordanos and Lou Malnatis a few years ago.

That settles it then, Marner and Matthews are post season superstars as well.
- paulr

Right up there with Gretzky and Coffee.

Right up there with Gretzky and Coffee.
- rpeters01

You talk about a deep team, Messier was explaining why he never had a OT game winning goal, he was always so worried about giving up the game winning goal that he figured he'd let his forwards be the heroes.

Sure but when he was serving his major at the end of the game it was his teammates who bailed his ass out. Incredibly
- BetweenTheDots

Are you implying one penalty negates all the other things he consistently did well? Not sure what your argument is...

I'm at Portillos now.
- rpeters01



You guys have to rub it in? No Portillos by me, but I do have a beef place here in SW FL, about 20 minutes from me. I believe that Wiz has a Portillos in the Tampa area.
- Angotti

Yea well, we can't get fresh, breaded, and deep fried grouper sandwiches here so it kinda evens out.

Yea well, we can't get fresh, breaded, and deep fried grouper sandwiches here so it kinda evens out.
- Rota's Rooter

I guess you can’t have it all. I’ll be back up there in June, Portillos is my first stop, second stop is my wife’s favorite pizza place, pizza down here sucks.

Sure but when he was serving his major at the end of the game it was his teammates who bailed his ass out. Incredibly
- BetweenTheDots

Oh sure, that happens, but he played great pretty much on the whole. Penalties happen.

Oh sure, that happens, but he played great pretty much on the whole. Penalties happen.
- breadbag

It's funny how defensive everyone is. All the teams competing for the SC have good players its the depth on the team that wins you Cups.

It's funny how defensive everyone is. All the teams competing for the SC have good players its the depth on the team that wins you Cups.
- BetweenTheDots

Or hot goaltending

Skinner stole that game for Edmonton last night.

It's funny how defensive everyone is. All the teams competing for the SC have good players its the depth on the team that wins you Cups.
- BetweenTheDots

Hmmm... so wonder why Becher is listed as being in the draft this year and is on the Central Scouting rankings
- totem

Totem, as I understand draft eligibility is this way........ The yr a kid turns 18 before September 15th is his first draft eligible yr. If undrafted he will be eligible for the draft the next 2 yrs for a total of 3 yrs draft eligible. During those 3 draft eligible yrs he can't be signed as a free agent. He can be signed as a FA only after he goes undrafted all 3 of his draft eligible yrs.

Don't know the pick values but if a 2nd rounder needs to be added, so be it.

Interesting scenario. Let's say Celebrini, Demidov and Levshunov go 1,2,3. Calgary's GM Conroy thinks Parekh is the 2nd coming of Cale Makar. KFC thinks everyone from 4-10 are rated similarly and goes for the 2 for 1 deal. Parekh goes 4th to Calgary. 5-8 are some combination of Lindstrom, Dlckinson, Buium, Catton. There is lots to choose from at 9 and 10 including Eiserman, Iginla, Yakemchuk, maybe one of the 5-8 guys if a GM selects Silayev or someone else.

Then the Hawks can still get another useful player with the TB pick. Git er done Kyle!
- boilermaker100

Very interesting, BM, but I would not trade the 4th for the 8th and 9th in THIS draft....... Tier wise I have Celebrini in a tier by himself and literally have 2 thru 9 damn near interchangeable and all of those players have a more than reasonable chance to be a difference maker. But, 2 of those 9 are Russians and I just can't risk even an 8th or 9th on the chance the kid never makes it to the US. ..... I would make an exception for Demidov with the 8th or 9th cuz he has a very good chance to be an elite NHL player and can justify the risk but he ain't lasting to 8th.

So that leaves me with 7 almost interchangeable players to draft from that I think will be NHL difference makers then comes the 3rd tier and a big fall off. ..... The 9 players I see after Celebrini in no particular order.

2, Buium
3, Levshunov
4, D!ckinson
5, Parekh
6, Lindstrom
7, Eiserman

8, Demidov (Russian)
9, Siliyev (Russian)

I would listen to an argument for Catton to be in Tier 2 but am not going to give up a true blue chipper (a 1st pairing type Dman, a Dman with pt per game skills/IQ, a perennial 50 goal threat or a 6ft 4in physical centerman who can score) at #4 for Catton and Iginla.

Interesting, BM, but I don't make that move. IMO the Hawks will get an NHL difference maker at #4.  

I'm at Portillos now.
- rpeters01



You guys have to rub it in? No Portillos by me, but I do have a beef place here in SW FL, about 20 minutes from me. I believe that Wiz has a Portillos in the Tampa area.
- Angotti

I was at the St. Pete Portillo's for a beef; My wife walked away as she thought I was fighting with eChicago born order TAKER...Because I said beef, sweet, hot on the side, juice not dipped...and, he didn't understand I wanted them to just ladle a bit more juice on.
I explained and I still got no ladle but a container of juice I dumped on it.

Very interesting, BM, but I would not trade the 4th for the 8th and 9th in THIS draft....... Tier wise I have Celebrini in a tier by himself and literally have 2 thru 9 damn near interchangeable and all of those players have a more than reasonable chance to be a difference maker. But, 2 of those 9 are Russians and I just can't risk even an 8th or 9th on the chance the kid never makes it to the US. ..... I would make an exception for Demidov with the 8th or 9th cuz he has a very good chance to be an elite NHL player and can justify the risk but he ain't lasting to 8th.

So that leaves me with 7 almost interchangeable players to draft from that I think will be NHL difference makers then comes the 3rd tier and a big fall off. ..... The 9 players I see after Celebrini in no particular order.

2, Buium. 2. Levshunov
3, Levshunov. b]3. Eiserman (he will figure it out...the gun already hits the target
4, D!ckinson. 4. Lindstrom. don't believe the negatives here either.
5, Parekh. 5. Sam Richardinson í simply good.
6, Lindstrom. 6. Buium I am glad he impressed and has a following.
7, Eiserman. 7. Zanye Parekh - he HAS to injured now -I dropped him

8, Demidov (Russian)
9, Siliyev (Russian)

I guess would put Corey Pronmans' second overall, Carter Yakemchuk at 10. Where does that leave Catton, Connelly and Helenius???

That's 14 and ends the tier

15-75 are still nice chances to improve your NHL club...


I would listen to an argument for Catton to be in Tier 2 but am not going to give up a true blue chipper (a 1st pairing type Dman, a Dman with pt per game skills/IQ, a perennial 50 goal threat or a 6ft 4in physical centerman who can score) at #4 for Catton and Iginla.

Interesting, BM, but I don't make that move. IMO the Hawks will get an NHL difference maker at #4.  
- Mr Ricochet

. I agree

Totem, as I understand draft eligibility is this way........ The yr a kid turns 18 before September 15th is his first draft eligible yr. If undrafted he will be eligible for the draft the next 2 yrs for a total of 3 yrs draft eligible. During those 3 draft eligible yrs he can't be signed as a free agent. He can be signed as a FA only after he goes undrafted all 3 of his draft eligible yrs.
- Mr Ricochet

OK, thanks, that makes sense for our NA guys, like:

Andrew Shaw - https://www.eliteprospect.../player/37671/andrew-shaw
Drafted 3rd year eligible, just about to turn 20, check

Reese Johnson - https://www.eliteprospect...ayer/279121/reese-johnson
Eligible 2016-18, signed 2019, check

But it's still a little confusing with these 2 Czechia guys:

Gabriel Szturc - https://www.eliteprospect...yer/426117/gabriel-szturc
Born Sep 24, 2003
Ondrej Becher - https://www.eliteprospect...ayer/593187/ondrej-becher
Born Feb 22, 2004

Both 20, looks like same draft year. Szturc just signed with TB, Becher is in the draft. Szturc has been in the WHL for 3 years, Becher 2. Not sure why Becher was late coming over to WHL.

A little confusing, but usually not really important. These are probably bottom 6 guys.

Very interesting, BM, but I would not trade the 4th for the 8th and 9th in THIS draft.......
.
.
.
I would listen to an argument for Catton to be in Tier 2 but am not going to give up a true blue chipper (a 1st pairing type Dman, a Dman with pt per game skills/IQ, a perennial 50 goal threat or a 6ft 4in physical centerman who can score) at #4 for Catton and Iginla.

Interesting, BM, but I don't make that move. IMO the Hawks will get an NHL difference maker at #4.  
- Mr Ricochet

Have to agree - Catton, Iginla, and Paraczak are my favorites to watch, but given where the picks are, and what they're probably looking to add (more size with not much less speed) - these probably aren't the droids they're looking for this year.

. I agree
- wiz1901

Admitting my memory is poor I can't remember an 18 yr old Dman control an NCAA game, let alone all the way thru winning the championship, like Buium did. Those rosters had 10-12-14 drafted players on them along with 22-23 yr olds and for an 18 yr old to control the game is damn impressive.

Sure, we see players contribute, score, make plays in the NCAA but not too many 18 yr old and even less 18 yr old Dmen but Buium does that and controls pace, dictates terms....... Yea, I'm a Buium guy.

Watched parts of 4-5 games of Oshawa early in the yr and sporadically afterwards and thought Sennecke looked ok but nothing more until these playoffs. Kid has taken a step and with his size is becoming interesting. Kid has some nuance, feel and poise I didn't see early in the season.

Tuned into the 1st period of Game 5 (5 game series) of Green Bay vs Muskegon to see Gujun. Didn't take long for Boisvert to stand out even as I dialed in on Gajun. Kid is really nicely sized, very good positioning off the puck and with his reads and feet was seemingly dangerous every shift. 6ft 2in very smooth skater played a silky efficient European style of circling/skating with a lotta poise. ........ Would love to see him there at #19.

Connelly scares me but gonna get a good look at him with USA in these Worlds starting v Finland then the knockout rd. I can get past him retweeting Nazi crap when he was younger but being with 5-6-7 organIzations from 12-13 yrs old to 18 scares me.

I like Catton, a good bit, and have him at 10 as a tweener between Tiers 2 and 3.

Have to agree - Catton, Iginla, and Paraczak are my favorites to watch, but given where the picks are, and what they're probably looking to add (more size with not much less speed) - these probably aren't the droids they're looking for this year.
- totem

Based on rankings Catton and Iginla will be long gone before Chicago’s second pick. Good chance Paraczak is available though. What I like from what I’ve seen of Paraczak is he makes him home in front of the net and battles hard along the boards. I’m not sure about his skating, he’s not a speedster but he keeps up. He seems to have a great shot with quick release.

Hossa is a fantastic hockey player, but so is Matthews. What I'm saying is this, if you took Hossa from 2010 and put him on the Leafs today you would get the same result, if you put Matthews on the 2010 Blackhawks you would get the same result, 2010 team may have been one of the most talented teams in history, Maple Leafs not even close. Depth depth depth
- BetweenTheDots

This is playoff hockey we're talking about, Dots. As good as Matthews is and his 70 goals scored he isn't a guy who will drag his team into the fight of an NHL playoff game where everything is heightened/raised like a Hossa, Peter Forsberg, Toews, Crosby or Shea Weber can and will

IMO when the men's men come for the cup and you're gonna play thru broken bones thru SIXTEEN a squad with a Hossa on it has a better chance than one with a Mattews.

So you like the effort the regular season superstars are bringing? You sound like all the other Leaf apologists. I personally don’t want a player on the Hawks who is unable, or unwilling, to raise their effort level in the playoffs.
- paulr

I like seeing the Leafs lose but I dislike the hockey platitudes of effort, jam, compete, heart, whatever being used as a reason for a loss when there are very clear technical and tactical issues with the team in general.

Matthews, Nylander and Marner have to perform in spite of their team not as a part of it which is a far more interesting discussion to have and much closer to the cause of their issues. This team is pretty comparable to how bad the Oilers were pre Bouchard. And they couldn't get out of the first round with McDavid and ze German scoring at their usual clip (but still blamed).

Anyway, effort and execution aren't the same thing. It's not like Winnipeg trying harder was going to help them keep up in a fast break game or maintain structure when MacKinnon, Makar, Mikko and that big Russian are relentlessly flying up the ice. They just don't have the speed or firepower.

Effort isn't going to help the Leafs exit the zone more efficiently or stretch the Bruins out with a threat from the blue line. Without Nylander there are two threats and thats Marner and Matthews. If those guys are on their own line without a lot of support I dunno how they're supposed to rise to the occasion and beat 4 guys all on their own consistently. It's just not a realistic expectation.

The comments Jones and Foligno made about character guys who are bought into a team plan - the Leafs have none of those in their line up.

People who think Domi skating around like an idiot is more constructive than Marner and Matthews rubbing their peckers on the ice just doesn't make sense to me.

I think that they need a major change next year. Marner is probably the guy to move on from. Marner to Seattle for 8 + probably doable. Banishing him to Philly and Torts would be fun for everyone. Utah would be a good spot and they have assets.

In addition if they move Kampf, McCabe and Reeves for whatever futures they can recoup. Maybe some team would be desperate enough to take Tavares at half salary for a 2nd or something. They can be poopty enough to get a top ten pick and maybe be ready to take another shot at it when Nylander and Matthews are in that 28-29 range and do a bit of a retool. Kinda like the Avs did when they unloaded Statsny, ORiely and Duchene.