Great, now all we have to do is see Laughton on a team with Matthews, Nylander and Marner
- anti-lame

OK, I think it's more likely Tavares puts up better numbers here than Laughton would there. Agree to disagree.

Frost, Farabee, Laughton, Cates, Zamula, Attard, Ginning and even Sanheim. If there is player there at 6 the Flyers really want, I wouldn't have a problem trading any of these players along with the 12th overall pick.
- jd250

Seriously? Not going to get it done.

Frost you routinely criticize.
Farabee according to you is an okay player with okay skill
Laughton is a 3rd line role players.
Same with Cates
Zamula is a 3rd pair defenseman who at this point, is not a full time player
Attard and Ginning are AHL players

I think it's clear from your comments that you don't have a clue of what you're looking at. I objectively look at Frost using the facts and I don't have a bias. A mean streak is a pretty simple term. I disagree that Sanheim gets pushed off the puck too much. Does York or Drysdale have a mean streak? Do you know what will actually never change? That while you certainly need to be able to defend and play in the physical side of the game. The best defenseman in the league are the skilled guys who can skate, move the puck and score. The issue with the Flyers is that they play players like Sanheim and York for that matter in roles they're not suited for. Neither is a top pair NHL defenseman on their own merits.
- MJL

The Vegas defense (Stanley Cup Champions) says hold my beer. All big dudes with long reaches that play a physical style. Of course, they have guys that can skate and get the puck up ice as well. Bring Gudas back!!

Points are misleading if you’re not taking into consideration when the goals are scored. Marner’s scoring has been halved in Games 4-7 in the playoffs. A few here have said Marner is a top 10 forward in the league. I disagree but let’s say they’re right. A top 10 player playing well in the playoffs doesn’t cut it.

That Boston team was flawed. But they have good structure and a top 10 forward has to find a way. I’m not saying Marner is the one to go. Just that he is part of the problem. That top heavy core 4 needs a change.
- Minnyhock

It's a fair criticism to say that Marner has to produce more in the playoffs then he has but that's different than saying he hasn't played well. You need your top players to play more than just well. You need them to carry the team. I don't see him as part of the problem. I see the roster makeup and the weaknesses they have as a factor in why the Leafs top players produce at a lower rate in the playoffs. Change just to change is not a good idea.

OK, I think it's more likely Tavares puts up better numbers here than Laughton would there. Agree to disagree.
- MBFlyerfan

It's not even close. Tavares may have lost a step, but in natural playmaking/scoring ability he would win in a landslide over Laughts.

The Vegas defense (Stanley Cup Champions) says hold my beer. All big dudes with long reaches that play a physical style. Of course, they have guys that can skate and get the puck up ice as well. Bring Gudas back!!
- Phillywhiteout

They just got knocked out in the first round. You need that puck movement and offensive attack from the back end.

OK, I think it's more likely Tavares puts up better numbers here than Laughton would there. Agree to disagree.
- MBFlyerfan

you’re not taking into account the cap hit - hence “poor man’s”

It's a fair criticism to say that Marner has to produce more in the playoffs then he has but that's different than saying he hasn't played well. You need your top players to play more than just well. You need them to carry the team. I don't see him as part of the problem. I see the roster makeup and the weaknesses they have as a factor in why the Leafs top players produce at a lower rate in the playoffs. Change just to change is not a good idea.
- MJL

if it aint broke don't fix it

you’re not taking into account the cap hit - hence “poor man’s”
- anti-lame

ok, I usually take that phrase to mean, alike but less quality. Fender Vs Squire, Gibson Vs Epiphone. Genesis Vs Hyundai. Tavares vs Laughton



edit: and I did take it in to account, hence my original comment. I don't think they are close.

Agree to disagree

It's a fair criticism to say that Marner has to produce more in the playoffs then he has but that's different than saying he hasn't played well. You need your top players to play more than just well. You need them to carry the team. I don't see him as part of the problem. I see the roster makeup and the weaknesses they have as a factor in why the Leafs top players produce at a lower rate in the playoffs. Change just to change is not a good idea.
- MJL

I see the Core 4 as finesse/skill players. They’re all different in some ways but it just seems playoff teams are able game plan a strategy to overcome that foursome. Maybe Marner is able to be a big piece in a roster reconfiguration including the Core 4 but he he just isn’t THE GUY to carry. Not change for the sake of change but change to a more balanced roster that can play the game anyway the other team wants to play.

I see the Core 4 as finesse/skill players. They’re all different in some ways but it just seems playoff teams are able game plan a strategy to overcome that foursome. Maybe Marner is able to be a big piece in a roster reconfiguration including the Core 4 but he he just isn’t THE GUY to carry. Not change for the sake of change but change to a more balanced roster that can play the game anyway the other team wants to play.
- Minnyhock

correct it is change because they have not got it done. Nor even come close.

I see the Core 4 as finesse/skill players. They’re all different in some ways but it just seems playoff teams are able game plan a strategy to overcome that foursome. Maybe Marner is able to be a big piece in a roster reconfiguration including the Core 4 but he he just isn’t THE GUY to carry. Not change for the sake of change but change to a more balanced roster that can play the game anyway the other team wants to play.
- Minnyhock

Marner was a Selke finalist last year. Matthews is this year. Two of the top all around NHL players in the league. None of the Core 4 have been able to carry the team in the playoffs. Why is the question. In my opinion it's not because of Marner or Matthews. You just aren't going to win a trade of either of them.

Seriously? Not going to get it done.

Frost you routinely criticize.
Farabee according to you is an okay player with okay skill
Laughton is a 3rd line role players.
Same with Cates
Zamula is a 3rd pair defenseman who at this point, is not a full time player
Attard and Ginning are AHL players
- MJL

any one of them plus the 12th pick is a severe overpay for the 6th pick in 25o's world

Marner was a Selke finalist last year. Matthews is this year. Two of the top all around NHL players in the league. None of the Core 4 have been able to carry the team in the playoffs. Why is the question. In my opinion it's not because of Marner or Matthews. You just aren't going to win a trade of either of them.
- MJL

can a team trade the better player and still be a better team?

Facts

Torts had 75 points his first season. 87 points this season. Zero chance that man is willing to go backwards. I think we all know what their goal is for 24-25.
- Pelle31Forever

Briere and Torts said they want to improve the power play this year and they are not changing coaches. Thus as the Flyers did last year with the penalty kill, I can see the them being aggressive and trying to get a scorer or two to help the PP. That is why I think som trades will occur this off season.

Seriously? Not going to get it done.

Frost you routinely criticize.
Farabee according to you is an okay player with okay skill
Laughton is a 3rd line role players.
Same with Cates
Zamula is a 3rd pair defenseman who at this point, is not a full time player
Attard and Ginning are AHL players
- MJL

You forgot Sanheim who I think a team like Utah might be interested in. He's young, experienced and has cost certainty. Also, it does not matter what I think of Frost and Farabee, it only matters when Utah thinks. Both are young players that have reasonable contracts and can are proven NHL players.

Briere and Torts said they want to improve the power play this year and they are not changing coaches. Thus as the Flyers did last year with the penalty kill, I can see the them being aggressive and trying to get a scorer or two to help the PP. That is why I think som trades will occur this off season.
- jd250

what were they supposed to say? Them keeping rockhead is alarming at best, criminal at worst. What assets do the Flyers have that can garnner high level talent on the roster or in the pipeline that is not a russian with the initials MM?

what were they supposed to say? Them keeping rockhead is alarming at best, criminal at worst. What assets do the Flyers have that can garnner high level talent on the roster or in the pipeline that is not a russian with the initials MM?
- corduroy

NONE

Frost, Farabee, Laughton, Cates, Zamula, Attard, Ginning and even Sanheim. If there is player there at 6 the Flyers really want, I wouldn't have a problem trading any of these players along with the 12th overall pick.
- jd250

I think we all know that last years draft was a bit deeper at the top than this year...

Hypothetically if you wash out the top pick in each draft (Bedard/Celebrini), this year doesn't really have the Carlsson, Fantilli, Michkov, Will Smith tier after #1.

So you are saying trade the #12 AND Sanheim/Farabee for #6 (which is equivalent to #10-12 last year?

Is that what you are saying or is this a situation where #6 is going to get a bonafide superstar like TK > Pasta?

Briere and Torts said they want to improve the power play this year and they are not changing coaches. Thus as the Flyers did last year with the penalty kill, I can see the them being aggressive and trying to get a scorer or two to help the PP. That is why I think som trades will occur this off season.
- jd250

yes more GH and RP types.

Marner was a Selke finalist last year. Matthews is this year. Two of the top all around NHL players in the league. None of the Core 4 have been able to carry the team in the playoffs. Why is the question. In my opinion it's not because of Marner or Matthews. You just aren't going to win a trade of either of them.
- MJL

You may be right about the return for Marner and Matthews. But they’ll never get past the 2nd round with that core intact. I think you have to look at the core as a unit and find a way to jettison at least one while adding the missing ingredients to give them a
roster that has better secondary scoring, depth and more of the Knies element.

can a team trade the better player and still be a better team?
- hello it's me 2050

not on a spreadsheet

You forgot Sanheim who I think a team like Utah might be interested in. He's young, experienced and has cost certainty. Also, it does not matter what I think of Frost and Farabee, it only matters when Utah thinks. Both are young players that have reasonable contracts and can are proven NHL players.
- jd250

You're right I did forget Sanheim. Whom you consistently say SUCKS. Now they're going to trade him plus the 12th for the 6th overall. If Farabee is an okay player with okay skill according to you. Why would an NHL team think differently?

Question, why do you want to move up and get the 6th overall pick?

Briere and Torts said they want to improve the power play this year and they are not changing coaches. Thus as the Flyers did last year with the penalty kill, I can see the them being aggressive and trying to get a scorer or two to help the PP. That is why I think som trades will occur this off season.
- jd250

I friggin hope so. Our pp is beyond pathetic...

You may be right about the return for Marner and Matthews. But they’ll never get past the 2nd round with that core intact. I think you have to look at the core as a unit and find a way to jettison at least one while adding the missing ingredients to give them a
roster that has better secondary scoring, depth and more of the Knies element.
- Minnyhock

If they improve the mix around them, they can. The guy to move is Taveras followed by Nylander.