Definitely was joker. He was getting lazy and making some bad plays. His game went to poop.

One game I remember 5 bad plays from joker in a row.
- Sabretooth9

Except Byram was just as bad. His decision making from his 4th game on was atrocious.

I'm all for upgrading the D, but you just don't let a guy like Joker "walk".

Except Byram was just as bad. His decision making from his 4th game on was atrocious.

I'm all for upgrading the D, but you just don't let a guy like Joker "walk".
- Powerslave

Read my last point.

Joker is an RFA. Tender and trade him. You gain an asset.

Except Byram was just as bad. His decision making from his 4th game on was atrocious.

I'm all for upgrading the D, but you just don't let a guy like Joker "walk".
- Powerslave

Which is why keeping Wilford is infuriating. The d is soft and they keep this guy around to keep coaching it… hopefully it’s a system thing and ruff can change it but I have my doubts

Read my last point.

Joker is an RFA. Tender and trade him. You gain an asset.
- Sabretooth9

His contract situation might make that difficult. If you qualify him, you have to be prepared for the possibility that he's still with you in October.

Good thing is that KA must know if there's a market for him. If there's not, this gets tough.

I said earlier. He’s an RFA. Tender him and trade.

Ryan Johnson and samualsson easily replace him.

No harm no foul. You gain an asset.

I’m not sure why you are so high on joker or think he’s so great.

Watch the playoffs. He isn’t skilled enough or a good enough puck mover to be in the top 4.

Heck Adams trades for Byram. He knows already joker isn’t it

Adams direct quote about trading for Byram was “ it’s not secret I have been looking for a top 4 defensemen.”
- Sabretooth9

Easily replace?! On a team that you expect to make the playoffs? You don't think you're going to have growing pains with Johnson? Power had his. People already want to run him out of town, for cripes sakes. And Samuelsson has NEVER proven he can stay healthy.

So then what? Johnson struggles, Sammy is hurt? Now you're playing Connor (frank)ing Clifton in your top 4.

Which is why keeping Wilford is infuriating. The d is soft and they keep this guy around to keep coaching it… hopefully it’s a system thing and ruff can change it but I have my doubts
- Gr8daygo

Ruff will definitely have his own system. Hopefully Byram thrives in it or it's just another bad trade.

Easily replace?! On a team that you expect to make the playoffs? You don't think you're going to have growing pains with Johnson? Power had his. People already want to run him out of town, for cripes sakes. And Samuelsson has NEVER proven he can stay healthy.

So then what? Johnson struggles, Sammy is hurt? Now you're playing Connor (frank)ing Clifton in your top 4.
- Powerslave

You wanting to pay joker 4+ mill is bad cap management. He doesn’t do enough

I trust Ryan Johnson and samuelsson over joker and his garbage end of the season.

So yeah, I’m good with both of them over joker. Easily an upgrade

You wanting to pay joker 4+ mill is bad cap management. He doesn’t do enough

I trust Ryan Johnson and samuelsson over joker and his garbage end of the season.

So yeah, I’m good with both of them over joker. Easily an upgrade
- Sabretooth9

He plays more than 55 games a year. In fact, paying a guy over $4 million to play just half the season EVERY year sounds like bad cap management.

Yeah, that's brilliant. Just let him walk 🙄 Guy plays 20 minutes a night.
- Powerslave

He had the lowest average TOI at just under 19 minutes compared to the big 4 (Dahlin, Power, Byram, Samuelsson).

He's clearly a 3rd pairing defenseman for them when you factor in the big 4, especially with how much we know the org loves the big 3, and they just made the huge trade for Byram.

The writing is clearly on the wall for Jokiharju.

He plays more than 55 games a year. In fact, paying a guy over $4 million to play just half the season EVERY year sounds like bad cap management.
- Powerslave

Nobody is going to disagree with you about Samuelsson, but what matters is what the org thinks, and they weren't constantly putting Samuelsson on the top pair, or at worst giving him the difficult assignments on pair 2 for no reason.

They clearly love him, and they're big fans of Byram.

I'm a big believer that they only have 2 core defenseman, but they don't believe that.

They think they have 4 now, and Jokiharju is not one of them.

He had the lowest average TOI at just under 19 minutes compared to the big 4 (Dahlin, Power, Byram, Samuelsson).

He's clearly a 3rd pairing defenseman for them when you factor in the big 4, especially with how much we know the org loves the big 3, and they just made the huge trade for Byram.

The writing is clearly on the wall for Jokiharju.
- kingcong39

The only problem is, 25% of your "big 4" misses half the season every year.

His contract situation might make that difficult. If you qualify him, you have to be prepared for the possibility that he's still with you in October.

Good thing is that KA must know if there's a market for him. If there's not, this gets tough.
- Lunaion

Your story has sure seemed to have changed since we talked about Jokiharju a month before the season ended.

What's the worst case scenario: That they qualify him and nobody wants to trade for him, and they're now overpaying a 3rd pairing defender?

If they get the sense is there isn't much of a market by the time a QO is due, then don't tender him.

Nobody is going to disagree with you about Samuelsson, but what matters is what the org thinks, and they weren't constantly putting Samuelsson on the top pair, or at worst giving him the difficult assignments on pair 2 for no reason.

They clearly love him, and they're big fans of Byram.

I'm a big believer that they only have 2 core defenseman, but they don't believe that.

They think they have 4 now, and Jokiharju is not one of them.
- kingcong39

That's fine, but when he's hurt again, you're either playing Johnson or Clifton in your top 4, and the former likely isn't ready and the latter isn't capable.

The only problem is, 25% of your "big 4" misses half the season every year.
- Powerslave

We all get that.

Until the org shows they get it too, and they stop overplaying him, the evidence is that Samuelsson is written into the top 4 in concrete.

That's fine, but when he's hurt again, you're either playing Johnson or Clifton in your top 4, and the former likely isn't ready and the latter isn't capable.
- Powerslave

Again, agreed.

But does the team agree?

Doesn't seem like they do.

Nobody is going to disagree with you about Samuelsson, but what matters is what the org thinks, and they weren't constantly putting Samuelsson on the top pair, or at worst giving him the difficult assignments on pair 2 for no reason.

They clearly love him, and they're big fans of Byram.

I'm a big believer that they only have 2 core defenseman, but they don't believe that.

They think they have 4 now, and Jokiharju is not one of them.
- kingcong39

Lindy throws a wrinkle to any thought we know what the organization thinks.

I have to think Dahlin + Samuelsson was contentious.

We all get that.

Until the org shows they get it too, and they stop overplaying him, the evidence is that Samuelsson is written into the top 4 in concrete.
- kingcong39

OK, so they're overplaying him?

Then why should it be OK to play Samuelsson on the bottom pair and pay him over $4 million, and not Joker?

Lindy throws a wrinkle to any thought we know what the organization thinks.

I have to think Dahlin + Samuelsson was contentious.
- Lunaion

On that last sentence, wanting to think that doesn't mean any of them actually had a problem with it, including the incoming HC.

On your first sentence, does he really?

I'm not convinced how much a say Lindy has in anything with the composition of his staff.

Consider me dubious.

Again, agreed.

But does the team agree?

Doesn't seem like they do.
- kingcong39

Maybe they should trade them both and sign Brady Skjei.

OK, so they're overplaying him?

Then why should it be OK to play Samuelsson on the bottom pair and pay him over $4 million, and not Joker?
- Powerslave

I have no idea what you're asking here.

They believe Samuelsson is no doubt a top 4 D.

Dahlin and Power are obviously top 4.

They didn't just make the huge trade for Byram to play him on the 3rd pair.

Where does that leave Jokiharju, logically?

Maybe they should trade them both and sign Brady Skjei.
- Powerslave

I'm all for bringing in 2 defenseman that are unlike anything they have.

Guys that can defend, intimidate, and play most of the season without getting injured.

They need one or two guys who bring a nightly presence that extends beyond skill.

I just don't think they believe that.

I have no idea what you're asking here.

They believe Samuelsson is no doubt a top 4 D.

Dahlin and Power are obviously top 4.

They didn't just make the huge trade for Byram to play him on the 3rd pair.

Where does that leave Jokiharju, logically?
- kingcong39

You're saying they overplay him? So, you sound like you believe he's a bottom pair D. He makes over $4 million/per. That was my point. In your eyes, if Joker is overpaid being slotted there, why isn't Sammy?

And they can believe that Sammy is a top 4 all they want. I'm just saying, they better have really good depth, because he's GOING TO get hurt.

On that last sentence, wanting to think that doesn't mean any of them actually had a problem with it, including the incoming HC.

On your first sentence, does he really?

I'm not convinced how much a say Lindy has in anything with the composition of his staff.

Consider me dubious.
- kingcong39

You think someone is dictating lines to Lindy? Did you ever get the feeling they were doing that to Donnie?

I'm all for bringing in 2 defenseman that are unlike anything they have.

Guys that can defend, intimidate, and play most of the season without getting injured.

They need one or two guys who bring a nightly presence that extends beyond skill.

I just don't think they believe that.
- kingcong39

If they don't believe that, then we're never going anywhere.

You're saying they overplay him? So, you sound like you believe he's a bottom pair D. He makes over $4 million/per. That was my point. In your eyes, if Joker is overpaid being slotted there, why isn't Sammy?

And they can believe that Sammy is a top 4 all they want. I'm just saying, they better have really good depth, because he's GOING TO get hurt.
- Powerslave

Samuelsson is a 3rd pairing defender to me.

Doesn't matter what I think when it's obvious they don't agree with that.