the comment section is shrinking .....

Happy 210th Birthday to Norway.

I like Jordan Kyrou, but realistically - they are not even close. Marner is significantly better than him. Add in that Kyrou killed a total of 7 seconds on the PK all season and you can get a sense that there's a deployment and capability comparison here as well.

I'm not against trading Marner to change the team's balance, but I'm very much against undervaluing him because we didn't like his most recent playoff performance while not even knowing the extent of his recovery from his ankle sprain - which we saw at the end of the season he was still not himself for all but one of the games. That was before playoff intensity ramped up - that was just a guy who relies on maneuverability and edgework on his skates struggling to perform at the peak level he's used to.

Realistically I think Marner says no. But I also think St. Louis says no because they really should be embarking on a retool at a minimum or a rebuild. I mean St. Louis added Snuggerud, Dvorsky and Stenberg in the last two years who I think are all going to be solid or excellent players - but they are going to need more talent to support their aging roster - and this year they draft 16th. They could get Marner and flip him for picks, but I very much doubt they'd want to do that, and given their team's current circumstances - would you waive to go to St. Louis if you were Marner?
- Monkeypunk

With respect ..We all know Marner is elite but we've got to get past the typical 'measurables' when comparing. The combination of talent on this roster has not worked ..in spite of being tried, repeatedly. It's operating in a vacuum to look at his value and demanding that it be equal. If he's being moved and if he agrees to a spot then his value is going to be limited to whatever the best offer is.

If not, then you either let him walk next summer or re-sign him to an amount of money you are currently uncomfortable with. It is what it is ....

There are 3 NMC in that trade....that is a bit of a fantasy I think.
- Santo_44

Not to mention that while there's an element of give-to-get, I sincerely doubt that the Islanders are trading 28 year old Sorokin, who they just signed to an 8 year extension, in order to rely on 36 year old Varlamov for 3 more years.

I also don't think Mitch would fancy playing under Lou again given that he harboured ill-will towards him for his ELC contract.

It's not easy to find realistic trading partners.

There are 3 NMC in that trade....that is a bit of a fantasy I think.
- Santo_44

If Marner waives to go to the Islanders, that's one gone. Sorokin fell out of favor with Patrick Roy and hardly seen any playoff action. I could easily see him waive his no trade clause to get away from Roy and be the number 1 goaltender on a contender. If it's Dobson that has the other, I'm sure that he'd consider waiving to go to an actual contender and not stay in a swampy atmosphere on the Island. He could step in to becoming a number 1 defenseman with powerplay time. His current bridge deal is $4M per and he could get a larger contract from the Leafs than he would get from Lou. It's not out of the realm of possibility here.

If Marner waives to go to the Islanders, that's one gone. Sorokin fell out of favor with Patrick Roy and hardly seen any playoff action. I could easily see him waive his no trade clause to get away from Roy and be the number 1 goaltender on a contender. If it's Dobson that has the other, I'm sure that he'd consider waiving to go to an actual contender and not stay in a swampy atmosphere on the Island. He could step in to becoming a number 1 defenseman with powerplay time. His current bridge deal is $4M per and he could get a larger contract from the Leafs than he would get from Lou. It's not out of the realm of possibility here.
- PrinceLH

Seems like a rash decision for Sorokin...the Islanders were not good last year, doesn't mean he will give up and move his family after making a commitment. Pulock too...its just not likely.

It will be hard enough working with MM's NMC.

These are nit chess piece's, they are human beings with actual lives.

Not to mention that while there's an element of give-to-get, I sincerely doubt that the Islanders are trading 28 year old Sorokin, who they just signed to an 8 year extension, in order to rely on 36 year old Varlamov for 3 more years.

I also don't think Mitch would fancy playing under Lou again given that he harboured ill-will towards him for his ELC contract.

It's not easy to find realistic trading partners.
- Monkeypunk

Yeah Lou always immediately gets a top 10 goalie on every team he has been on.

Why would he change his ways at 81 years old?

If Marner waives to go to the Islanders, that's one gone. Sorokin fell out of favor with Patrick Roy and hardly seen any playoff action. I could easily see him waive his no trade clause to get away from Roy and be the number 1 goaltender on a contender. If it's Dobson that has the other, I'm sure that he'd consider waiving to go to an actual contender and not stay in a swampy atmosphere on the Island. He could step in to becoming a number 1 defenseman with powerplay time. His current bridge deal is $4M per and he could get a larger contract from the Leafs than he would get from Lou. It's not out of the realm of possibility here.
- PrinceLH

I think Dobson's value is too much now. Last summer, maybe. He's an elite RHD who ain't going anywhere.

I agree the Island is probably one of the least likely options IMHO ...but if it were on a list I don't see any deal including Sorokin or Dobson. More likely Pulock, Varlamov and things.

Not to mention that while there's an element of give-to-get, I sincerely doubt that the Islanders are trading 28 year old Sorokin, who they just signed to an 8 year extension, in order to rely on 36 year old Varlamov for 3 more years.

I also don't think Mitch would fancy playing under Lou again given that he harboured ill-will towards him for his ELC contract.

It's not easy to find realistic trading partners.
- Monkeypunk

So why did they play Varlamov in the playoffs this year? I imagine Sorokin took it personally when Roy sat him. If the Leafs offer Woll in the deal, they get themselves a 25 year old American born goaltender with talent. I think Woll is a legitimate number 1 goaltender, but the injury issues seem to make it impossible for Leafs Nation to accept him as their goaltender of the future. There is no perfect solution here. Leafs have a winger that is becoming disgruntled and the Islanders have a goaltender that is also disgruntled. The cap ramifications are going to come out similar if done correctly. Marner will go there if he gets paid his $12M per going forward.

So why did they play Varlamov in the playoffs this year? I imagine Sorokin took it personally when Roy sat him. If the Leafs offer Woll in the deal, they get themselves a 25 year old American born goaltender with talent. I think Woll is a legitimate number 1 goaltender, but the injury issues seem to make it impossible for Leafs Nation to accept him as their goaltender of the future. There is no perfect solution here. Leafs have a winger that is becoming disgruntled and the Islanders have a goaltender that is also disgruntled. The cap ramifications are going to come out similar if done correctly. Marner will go there if he gets paid his $12M per going forward.
- PrinceLH

Because Varlomov was playing better?

I am sure Sorokin took it personally on himself, he will be much better next year and will be on the Islanders.

I think Dobson's value is too much now. Last summer, maybe. He's an elite RHD who ain't going anywhere.

I agree the Island is probably one of the least likely options IMHO ...but if it were on a list I don't see any deal including Sorokin or Dobson. More likely Pulock, Varlamov and things.
- The Law

Pulock is 29 but would be helpful as second paired right handed defenseman. Maybe a Robertson or Liljegren gets that one done.

With respect ..We all know Marner is elite but we've got to get past the typical 'measurables' when comparing. The combination of talent on this roster has not worked ..in spite of being tried, repeatedly. It's operating in a vacuum to look at his value and demanding that it be equal. If he's being moved and if he agrees to a spot then his value is going to be limited to whatever the best offer is.

If not, then you either let him walk next summer or re-sign him to an amount of money you are currently uncomfortable with. It is what it is ....
- The Law

Certainly - but I do say that if Marner is amenable to a trade and there's a reasonable number of destinations, I really do believe that his value will be in that elite tier. Last year Marner paced to a 102pt season and this year to a 101pt season. He has had more than a point/game for six straight seasons. If I compare that to other players in the elite to generational tier: RWs, Tkachuk 3, Nylander 2, Kucherov 3 because he missed all of 2020-21, but 7 in a row, Pastrnak 3, Rantanen 4, Kaprizov 3, Aho 1. Comparing him to other superstars - Draisaitl 6, MacKinnon 7, Panarin 7, Matthews 7, McDavid: always.

I agree that the team needs some type of change to its structure, but I have to admit that I against that type of trade for a trade - like the way Boston dumped Joe Thornton for Wayne Primeau, Brad Stuart and Marco Sturm.

As much as some people hate it - if you can't find a partner for him that makes sense, then you do run it back and let JT go and use that space. If Marner leaves, you use that $22m to remake everything you need to.

Because Varlomov was playing better?

I am sure Sorokin took it personally on himself, he will be much better next year and will be on the Islanders.
- Santo_44

If Roy is still in charge, that may be an issue.

Korchinski, 1st and C seems good
- mr.sir

Makes zero sense for Chicago

He'll be "warm-jacked" all winter.
- Atomic Wedgie

just wanted to quote this with no context

If Roy is still in charge, that may be an issue.
- PrinceLH

Sorokin will bounce back.

Roy will love him.

Islanders aren't winning the cup either way and they won't be bad enough to get a good pick.

Love Patrick but he's in a no-win situation.

Sorokin will bounce back.

Roy will love him.

Islanders aren't winning the cup either way and they won't be bad enough to get a good pick.

Love Patrick but he's in a no-win situation.
- Scabeh

Lou hockey

I wouldn't mind Buch or Konencny.

I just think and want it to be NSH.

Saros plus some of their top prospects so leafs can finally be active at the TDL.

Use the cap space for D.

It is the best fit.

I also saw a list of the goalies that have eliminated Carolina and the Leafs...time to get a legit goalie, no excuses.
- Santo_44

Saros is gonna want a big extension. Not worth it.
Nash isnt the best option
Vegas
LA

I'd imagine he gets a tad less.

We all know Jets overpaid Helly and Schieifele.

Leafs have to put a good team in front of Saros as well, can't have one without the other and expect to be successful.

I am so over trying to throw an average goalie out there thinking they will be a Hill, its just not happening.

Carolina and the Leafs always get eliminated by the better goalie, Carolina has just had the better built team so they have had more success.

Saros is great.

Molendyk
Wood
1st round picks
Lauzon
Tomasino/Evangalista
ROR

Lots of potential pieces. Both Wood and Molendyk are high end prospects.
- Santo_44

You put an average to good goalie behind good strong D who can move the puck and defend. The goalie will do well.
Dont need to spend huge cap on a goalie.

Sorokin will bounce back.

Roy will love him.

Islanders aren't winning the cup either way and they won't be bad enough to get a good pick.

Love Patrick but he's in a no-win situation.
- Scabeh

I still don't understand their acquisition of Horvat. This is a team on the decline that hasn't had a 1st round pick in 4 years and will draft 18th this year. The Islanders depth pool is so shallow it's like the Kardashian gene pool.

Lou, man. Crazy old man power.

Saros is gonna want a big extension. Not worth it.
Nash isnt the best option
Vegas
LA
- Fakepartofme

Cool I disagree, sick of bad goaltending.

You put an average to good goalie behind good strong D who can move the puck and defend. The goalie will do well.
Dont need to spend huge cap on a goalie.
- Fakepartofme

False.

Can't afford thinking a lottery ticket will turn into a Hill, rarely happens.

Certainly - but I do say that if Marner is amenable to a trade and there's a reasonable number of destinations, I really do believe that his value will be in that elite tier. Last year Marner paced to a 102pt season and this year to a 101pt season. He has had more than a point/game for six straight seasons. If I compare that to other players in the elite to generational tier: RWs, Tkachuk 3, Nylander 2, Kucherov 3 because he missed all of 2020-21, but 7 in a row, Pastrnak 3, Rantanen 4, Kaprizov 3, Aho 1. Comparing him to other superstars - Draisaitl 6, MacKinnon 7, Panarin 7, Matthews 7, McDavid: always.

I agree that the team needs some type of change to its structure, but I have to admit that I against that type of trade for a trade - like the way Boston dumped Joe Thornton for Wayne Primeau, Brad Stuart and Marco Sturm.

As much as some people hate it - if you can't find a partner for him that makes sense, then you do run it back and let JT go and use that space. If Marner leaves, you use that $22m to remake everything you need to.
- Monkeypunk

This.
I get people are all mad and solely blame everything on Marner, but the leafs shouldnt be dumping him for a meh return (saros +)
Get what you want.
Or let him walk.
If anything do a sign and trade at the end of the season....its a contract year, he should come out flying like willie did until he was signed.
:😜

False.

Can't afford thinking a lottery ticket will turn into a Hill, rarely happens.
- Santo_44

"False" lol
Jesus

There is no lottery ticket. Its a good nhl goalie behind more solid team hopefully under a better coaching system.
Our special teams have sunk this team for years

Cool I disagree, sick of bad goaltending.
- Santo_44

Cool.
You should be sick of bad special teams, thats whats killed the leafs the past several years.