what's the value of a player that never shows up in the playoffs?

Some teams do like to not only make the playoffs but make it through a few rounds.
- Symba007

38.5M? atleast, according to Bergevin and the Habs.

I tell you what ...as I think about it. If MM was open to StL I'd be down with Buchnevic and Parayko for Marner and Lilly especially if you could get Buchnevic to extend at $7ish. Big, strong, fast, playmaker for Matthews left side. You could probably get the Blues to retain on Buchnevic last year next year freeing up more space to play with this coming year.

The age factor is a variable but (frank) it ...it's time to win. Leafs get bigger and faster and get two guys at around $14M instead of MM at 12.5M so more money to fix the blueline and g'tending.

Sign me up. Not sure the Blues are down.
- The Law

People female doged and complained when I mentioned Konency...Buch has 1 goal in 22 playoff games.

But its also funny how no one says Buch has no value because his complete lack of playoff success. Only in Toronto.

It’s crazy how I’m always right about everything.

The team chasing individual success down the stretch is why they lost in the 1st round. They didn’t even try to prepare for the playoffs. Keefe just went, “meh, they just care about the playoffs now.” They played Willy while he was clearly concussed, Matthews ripped 200 shots a game trying to hit 70, Woll wasn’t given much time to get into form.

Tre better turn a new leaf (get it?) and cut the bullpoop. But as long as Shanahan is around, this team is rotten. They were so sure of themselves that they were ready for the playoffs, and they fell flat.

Hockey isn’t complicated. The bigger you are, the more willing you are to fight for pucks, the better defence you play, the better chance you have.

Coaching, goaltending, and leadership is vital. Start there ffs.

Anyhow. The Matthews/Marner window will start closing anytime now and the curse will remain for the foreseeable future. I’m 75% certain we’ll never see the Leafs win a cup in our lifetime.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

They lost in seven… heaven’s to murgetroid.

I tell you what ...as I think about it. If MM was open to StL I'd be down with Buchnevic and Parayko for Marner and Lilly especially if you could get Buchnevic to extend at $7ish. Big, strong, fast, playmaker for Matthews left side. You could probably get the Blues to retain on Buchnevic last year next year freeing up more space to play with this coming year.

The age factor is a variable but (frank) it ...it's time to win. Leafs get bigger and faster and get two guys at around $14M instead of MM at 12.5M so more money to fix the blueline and g'tending.

Sign me up. Not sure the Blues are down.
- The Law

but then they have to fire BErube as those players are already tired of him

People female doged and complained when I mentioned Konency...Buch has 1 goal in 22 playoff games.

But its also funny how no one says Buch has no value because his complete lack of playoff success. Only in Toronto.
- Santo_44

Buchnevich had 11 pts in 12 games in his last playoff appearance. Sure, only one of those was a goal, but that's pretty solid.

His first 5 games were as a rookie where he played minimal mins. His second playoff campaign he played 3 games.

He's only recently become a PPG type player and certainly is nowhere near the level of Marner. So I'm not buying the "only in Toronto" narrative here.

There's got to be better examples.

They lost in seven… heaven’s to murgetroid.
- LFS

They've lost 5 Game 7s in a row. Something is in the water.

Buchnevich had 11 pts in 12 games in his last playoff appearance. Sure, only one of those was a goal, but that's pretty solid.

His first 5 games were as a rookie where he played minimal mins. His second playoff campaign he played 3 games.

He's only recently become a PPG type player and certainly is nowhere near the level of Marner. So I'm not buying the "only in Toronto" narrative here.

There's got to be better examples.
- mjones242

He has had one goal

ONE. in 22 games.

People female doged and complained when I mentioned Konency...Buch has 1 goal in 22 playoff games.

But its also funny how no one says Buch has no value because his complete lack of playoff success. Only in Toronto.
- Santo_44

Buch was really good in essentially his only playoff run. Only 1g but 10apples in 12 games and he was a physical beast.

His only other sniff at the playoffs were his rookie year and that weird Covid play-in.

Konecny's great too.

but then they have to fire BErube as those players are already tired of him
- drexel

Or Berube says "get me Parayko and Buchnevic ...warriors". Who knows?

Buch was really good in essentially his only playoff run. Only 1g but 10apples in 12 games and he was a physical beast.

His only other sniff at the playoffs were his rookie year and that weird Covid play-in.

Konecny's great too.
- The Law

I wouldn't mind Buch or Konencny.

I just think and want it to be NSH.

Saros plus some of their top prospects so leafs can finally be active at the TDL.

Use the cap space for D.

It is the best fit.

I also saw a list of the goalies that have eliminated Carolina and the Leafs...time to get a legit goalie, no excuses.

They've lost 5 Game 7s in a row. Something is in the water.
- mjones242

Dont remind me

Or Berube says "get me Parayko and Buchnevic ...warriors". Who knows?
- The Law

Logic does not belong on the buzz!

Or Berube says "get me Parayko and Buchnevic ...warriors". Who knows?
- The Law

What's more likely is David Perron.

FA and won't cost much against the cap.

I wouldn't mind Buch or Konencny.

I just think and want it to be NSH.

Saros plus some of their top prospects so leafs can finally be active at the TDL.

Use the cap space for D.

It is the best fit.

I also saw a list of the goalies that have eliminated Carolina and the Leafs...time to get a legit goalie, no excuses.
- Santo_44

I'm hesitant on Nashville b/c if it's Saros I'd imagine he's looking at the Hellybuyck contract. Not sure I'm excited about an 8.5M goalie for the next decade. And ..I worry about the Nashville factor with their 'tenders. I wouldn't hate it though.

I doubt STL values MM much more than they do Kyrou ...and Kyrou is younger and locked up for 8.1M for the next 7 years.

StL says no.

Maybe they counter with Buchnevic and Parayko.
- The Law

I like Jordan Kyrou, but realistically - they are not even close. Marner is significantly better than him. Add in that Kyrou killed a total of 7 seconds on the PK all season and you can get a sense that there's a deployment and capability comparison here as well.

I'm not against trading Marner to change the team's balance, but I'm very much against undervaluing him because we didn't like his most recent playoff performance while not even knowing the extent of his recovery from his ankle sprain - which we saw at the end of the season he was still not himself for all but one of the games. That was before playoff intensity ramped up - that was just a guy who relies on maneuverability and edgework on his skates struggling to perform at the peak level he's used to.

Realistically I think Marner says no. But I also think St. Louis says no because they really should be embarking on a retool at a minimum or a rebuild. I mean St. Louis added Snuggerud, Dvorsky and Stenberg in the last two years who I think are all going to be solid or excellent players - but they are going to need more talent to support their aging roster - and this year they draft 16th. They could get Marner and flip him for picks, but I very much doubt they'd want to do that, and given their team's current circumstances - would you waive to go to St. Louis if you were Marner?

I'm hesitant on Nashville b/c if it's Saros I'd imagine he's looking at the Hellybuyck contract. Not sure I'm excited about an 8.5M goalie for the next decade. And ..I worry about the Nashville factor with their 'tenders. I wouldn't hate it though.
- The Law

I'd imagine he gets a tad less.

We all know Jets overpaid Helly and Schieifele.

Leafs have to put a good team in front of Saros as well, can't have one without the other and expect to be successful.

I am so over trying to throw an average goalie out there thinking they will be a Hill, its just not happening.

Carolina and the Leafs always get eliminated by the better goalie, Carolina has just had the better built team so they have had more success.

Saros is great.

Molendyk
Wood
1st round picks
Lauzon
Tomasino/Evangalista
ROR

Lots of potential pieces. Both Wood and Molendyk are high end prospects.

What's more likely is David Perron.

FA and won't cost much against the cap.
- Santo_44

Between 4~5M cap hit me thinks.

Between 4~5M cap hit me thinks.
- dmnted

His last 3 contracts

3.75
4
4.75

at 35 turning 36 he will have to take less..probably 3.5.

Maybe 4 if he takes a 1 year.

Between 4~5M cap hit me thinks.
- dmnted

Players have been taking some discounts for the past few years, I think they all want to try to get an extra million or two with the cap going up.

There is less carjackings in 'peg cuz nobody wants to go there. Mitch will see that and agree
- senstroll

I heard that guys approach you with guns when you are in your car, but it's just to force you to let them in and warm themselves.

Mitchy had a Range Rover - heated back seats.

He'll be "warm-jacked" all winter.

Players have been taking some discounts for the past few years, I think they all want to try to get an extra million or two with the cap going up.
- Aaron_85

Perron did not take a discount with Detroit.

He went to a bad team to get paid and play the mentor role.

With his career coming to an end here he could want to take less and play on a contender.

I wouldn't mind Buch or Konencny.

I just think and want it to be NSH.

Saros plus some of their top prospects so leafs can finally be active at the TDL.

Use the cap space for D.

It is the best fit.

I also saw a list of the goalies that have eliminated Carolina and the Leafs...time to get a legit goalie, no excuses.
- Santo_44

If....and it's a big If, they had better make it count. Giving up a 90 point winger in his prime better get you a top tier goaltender. The only one that I can see available is Ilya Sorokin. He has an $8M cap hit and his new contract is supposed to kick in on July 1st. The first if, is what is coming back with him to make this trade work? Pulock is a possibility, but maybe the Leafs need to expand this trade. Instead of Pulock, ask for Dobson. A true upgrade for the Leafs blueline long term. The next if, is what do the Islanders want back in return for this upgrade? Is Joseph Woll on the table if Sorokin is coming this way in a trade? Is Woll enough to get this deal consummated? Do the Islanders fancy one of Robertson or Liljegren? Maybe the answer is Woll and one of Robertson or Liljegren. So would the Islanders do this trade:

Sorokin + Dobson for Marner, Woll and Liljegren? Discuss.......

Players have been taking some discounts for the past few years, I think they all want to try to get an extra million or two with the cap going up.
- Aaron_85

I don't think 3.5M cap hit will do even if he's 35.

If....and it's a big If, they had better make it count. Giving up a 90 point winger in his prime better get you a top tier goaltender. The only one that I can see available is Ilya Sorokin. He has an $8M cap hit and his new contract is supposed to kick in on July 1st. The first if, is what is coming back with him to make this trade work? Pulock is a possibility, but maybe the Leafs need to expand this trade. Instead of Pulock, ask for Dobson. A true upgrade for the Leafs blueline long term. The next if, is what do the Islanders want back in return for this upgrade? Is Joseph Woll on the table if Sorokin is coming this way in a trade? Is Woll enough to get this deal consummated? Do the Islanders fancy one of Robertson or Liljegren? Maybe the answer is Woll and one of Robertson or Liljegren. So would the Islanders do this trade:

Sorokin + Dobson for Marner, Woll and Liljegren? Discuss.......
- PrinceLH

There are 3 NMC in that trade....that is a bit of a fantasy I think.

I don't think 3.5M cap hit will do even if he's 35.
- dmnted

He is 36 in 10 days.

No one is giving him 4.5-5M until he is 38 on a 2 year deal.