Well Leafs are stuck with JT at his current cap hit for 1 more year. Nothing can/will be done about that.
- Nasty_Duck

That's 100% false. He can be asked to waive his NMC. If they don't ask, then he won't be traded. But plenty of players have been asked and have waived their NMC. It's not the first, wouldn't be the last either.

If they make it clear they do not want him now or going forward, he will waive and move on. It's a matter of management pushing the issue and making it known to him he has no future in Toronto. Followed by figuring out how to make the numbers work between cap floor teams to get his cap hit lowered and then the final destination where he lands for 4-5 AAV instead of 11.

Leafs don't have to lose Marner, but if he asks for > 11.5m then he should be going elsewhere. He has not accomplished enough to demand more than 11.5

No he shouldn't because he's more valuable at 11.5 AAV than Nylander is. If it boils down to "one of the big 3" have to go, it's Nylander before Marner. Marner plays against tougher competition, he is consistently among Selke candidates, he makes Matthews better, he kills penalties, he's younger and he has more career playoff points. There is no world where Marner is less valuable than Nylander for the same money.

Matthews at 13.25, Marner at 11.9 and Nylander at 11.5 is not what you would ideally want to pay those guys. Unfortunately, given how much money they lose by playing in Toronto due to taxes, that's what it costs to give them the final dollar amounts they'd make somewhere else.

Having 36 million tied in 3 forwards is indeed more difficult but not impossible. They just can't afford to have deadweight like Tavares around anymore and fill in the blanks either this year or next year.

Let me clear something up. There is a misconception that US states without income taxes are "tax free" or cheaper to live in. As a long-time resident of Florida, I can state with authority that the cost of living more than accounts for any tax savings. House insurance rates are up 150% since 2020. Auto insurance rates are the highest in the nation.

Your income is not taxed by the state, but you pay inflated taxes on EVERYTHING. Fees, service charges, and other hidden taxes are added to every purchase you make.

If having no state income tax was such a huge boon, nobody would live anywhere else.

I don't see any of you guys lining up to permanently move to Florida based on taxes. Nobody in the US is doing it either. And some of them that did leave places like California or New York to avoid taxes are now regretting that decision hard.

The grass always looks greener. States with no state income tax are not greener. They just extract that revenue from residents in alternate ways.

That's 100% false. He can be asked to waive his NMC. If they don't ask, then he won't be traded. But plenty of players have been asked and have waived their NMC. It's not the first, wouldn't be the last either.

If they make it clear they do not want him now or going forward, he will waive and move on. It's a matter of management pushing the issue and making it known to him he has no future in Toronto. Followed by figuring out how to make the numbers work between cap floor teams to get his cap hit lowered and then the final destination where he lands for 4-5 AAV instead of 11.



No he shouldn't because he's more valuable at 11.5 AAV than Nylander is. If it boils down to "one of the big 3" have to go, it's Nylander before Marner. Marner plays against tougher competition, he is consistently among Selke candidates, he makes Matthews better, he kills penalties, he's younger and he has more career playoff points. There is no world where Marner is less valuable than Nylander for the same money.

Matthews at 13.25, Marner at 11.9 and Nylander at 11.5 is not what you would ideally want to pay those guys. Unfortunately, given how much money they lose by playing in Toronto due to taxes, that's what it costs to give them the final dollar amounts they'd make somewhere else.

Having 36 million tied in 3 forwards is indeed more difficult but not impossible. They just can't afford to have deadweight like Tavares around anymore and fill in the blanks either this year or next year.
- Rare_Jewel

Matthews is the only one who deserves his huge contract. The rest of the core is dramatically overpaid. That includes body-pillow Marner and "I've got a headache" Nylander.

Marner or Nylander can't carry Matthews' jock strap.

Let me clear something up. There is a misconception that US states without income taxes are "tax free" or cheaper to live in. As a long-time resident of Florida, I can state with authority that the cost of living more than accounts for any tax savings. House insurance rates are up 150% in since 2020. Auto insurance rates are the highest in the nation.

Your income is not taxed by the state, but you pay inflated taxes on EVERYTHING. Fees, service charges, and other hidden taxes are added to every purchase you make.

If having no state income tax was such a huge boon, nobody would live anywhere else.

I don't see any of you guys lining up to permanently move to Florida based on taxes. Nobody in the US is doing it either. And some of them that did leave places like California or New York to avoid taxes are now regretting that decision hard.

The grass always looks greener. States with no state income tax are not greener. They just extract that revenue from residents in alternate ways.
- GalacticStone

Very true.
Nice call out.

Matthews is the only one who deserves his huge contract. The rest of the core is dramatically overpaid. That includes body-pillow Marner and "I've got a headache" Nylander.

Marner or Nylander can't carry Matthews' jock strap.
- GalacticStone

Yes matthews is another great reg season player.
But his 1 goal in the past 10 playoff games, kinds suggest he may be overpaid for when it counts

Yes matthews is another great reg season player.
But his 1 goal in the past 10 playoff games, kinds suggest he may be overpaid for when it counts
- Fakepartofme

I can't argue that. I would say that Matthews has been a man alone for most of his Leafs tenure. The ownership and management have not done a good job building a complementary roster around him.

I was mainly just throwing some anti-Marner and anti-Nylander bait out there to help smoke out which ALT Jewel is. There are some many ALTS in this forum and that I am often think a conversation with 5 other posters is really just one other poster wearing 5 masks.

That's 100% false. He can be asked to waive his NMC. If they don't ask, then he won't be traded. But plenty of players have been asked and have waived their NMC. It's not the first, wouldn't be the last either.

If they make it clear they do not want him now or going forward, he will waive and move on. It's a matter of management pushing the issue and making it known to him he has no future in Toronto. Followed by figuring out how to make the numbers work between cap floor teams to get his cap hit lowered and then the final destination where he lands for 4-5 AAV instead of 11.



No he shouldn't because he's more valuable at 11.5 AAV than Nylander is. If it boils down to "one of the big 3" have to go, it's Nylander before Marner. Marner plays against tougher competition, he is consistently among Selke candidates, he makes Matthews better, he kills penalties, he's younger and he has more career playoff points. There is no world where Marner is less valuable than Nylander for the same money.

Matthews at 13.25, Marner at 11.9 and Nylander at 11.5 is not what you would ideally want to pay those guys. Unfortunately, given how much money they lose by playing in Toronto due to taxes, that's what it costs to give them the final dollar amounts they'd make somewhere else.

Having 36 million tied in 3 forwards is indeed more difficult but not impossible. They just can't afford to have deadweight like Tavares around anymore and fill in the blanks either this year or next year.
- Rare_Jewel

Of course JT can be asked to waive. I'm saying he won't. He has no reason to leave before his current contract expires, regardless of what Leaf management might say.

Since Nylander just signed an extension with an NMC, he is going nowhere.

Leafs will have to tough it out for one more season and then evaluate how much they can pay Marner while also having Matthews and Nylander, cuz that pair is not going anywhere.

The dumbest things the Leafs did fell in order, one after another.

First, was trading Kadri. The next was signing Tavares. The nail in the coffin was letting Hyman walk.

To think, the Leafs could have simply kept Kadri and extended Hyman for the cap hit Tavares took up and still have 2 million to spare in between. And how far ahead did it get us? We lost two proven playoff warriors (one of them a Cup winner) for pajama boy who won 1 series in 6 years while being the 2nd highest paid player in the league the day he signed with the Leafs.
- Rare_Jewel

Lol
Kadri wasnt a playoff warriror. He was guaranteed to be suspended each playoffs, sure. But he wasnt some playoff "warrior".
Lets not be foolish.

Of course JT can be asked to waive. I'm saying he won't. He has no reason to leave before his current contract expires, regardless of what Leaf management might say.

Since Nylander just signed an extension with an NMC, he is going nowhere.

Leafs will have to tough it out for one more season and then evaluate how much they can pay Marner while also having Matthews and Nylander, cuz that pair is not going anywhere.
- Nasty_Duck

This.
I feel like the leafs will look over trade offers but ultimately roll back the core 4. Give Berube the year to get this team to learn to play a proper structure and add a key D piece.
Next off season is when the big changes come.

Let me clear something up. There is a misconception that US states without income taxes are "tax free" or cheaper to live in. As a long-time resident of Florida, I can state with authority that the cost of living more than accounts for any tax savings. House insurance rates are up 150% since 2020. Auto insurance rates are the highest in the nation.

Your income is not taxed by the state, but you pay inflated taxes on EVERYTHING. Fees, service charges, and other hidden taxes are added to every purchase you make.

If having no state income tax was such a huge boon, nobody would live anywhere else.

I don't see any of you guys lining up to permanently move to Florida based on taxes. Nobody in the US is doing it either. And some of them that did leave places like California or New York to avoid taxes are now regretting that decision hard.

The grass always looks greener. States with no state income tax are not greener. They just extract that revenue from residents in alternate ways.
- GalacticStone

that's all true to some degree but the devil's in the detail. For a Canadian making 10M per year residing in Ontario vs. Florida ...he's saving roughly 1.5M per year in income tax. Not sure you can make that up in other user taxes like property, etc...

there is no doubt that the 9.5M that guys seem willing to take in Sunrise and Tampa and Vegas and Nashville ....are all reflective of the income tax rules.

factor in warm weather golf 365 days of the year and it's an attractive option.

The hundreds of dollars in auto insurance savings ...don't really speak to them. And I think IIRC Ontario has some of the highest auto insurance rates in the world. No fault insurance sucks ass.

Of course JT can be asked to waive. I'm saying he won't. He has no reason to leave before his current contract expires, regardless of what Leaf management might say.

Since Nylander just signed an extension with an NMC, he is going nowhere.

Leafs will have to tough it out for one more season and then evaluate how much they can pay Marner while also having Matthews and Nylander, cuz that pair is not going anywhere.
- Nasty_Duck

Unholy Jewel does not want to hear that JT cannot be MADE to waive. I'd assume the Leafs do ask ...and like you, I think JT says no thanks. Most people feel like that. If he did waive ..great, but it seems like a huge stretch ..at best.

But Unholy Jewel is zero'd in on this narrative that the Leafs can make JT waive and if you've been around the last decade you know he pounds a narrative like no other.

This.
I feel like the leafs will look over trade offers but ultimately roll back the core 4. Give Berube the year to get this team to learn to play a proper structure and add a key D piece.
Next off season is when the big changes come.
- Fakepartofme

Yup - after next season Leafs will have more flexibility with JTs cap coming off the books. They could even bring him back at a greatly reduced cap if he truly wants to stay a Leaf.

that's all true to some degree but the devil's in the detail. For a Canadian making 10M per year residing in Ontario vs. Florida ...he's saving roughly 1.5M per year in income tax. Not sure you can make that up in other user taxes like property, etc...

there is no doubt that the 9.5M that guys seem willing to take in Sunrise and Tampa and Vegas and Nashville ....are all reflective of the income tax rules.

factor in warm weather golf 365 days of the year and it's an attractive option.

The hundreds of dollars in auto insurance savings ...don't really speak to them. And I think IIRC Ontario has some of the highest auto insurance rates in the world. No fault insurance sucks ass.
- The Law

True. Gazillionaires live in an entirely different world. They're not actual people.

I'm sure Stamkos isn't worried about his house or car insurance rates, but I sure as (frank) am.

At 54 years old, sole driver, safe car, spotless driving record, I am paying more for auto insurance now than I did when I was 18 and driving a rodded-out Camaro. It's nuts.

But yeah, aint gonna lie - the beach is a gotdamm smoke show and well worth every penny.

that's all true to some degree but the devil's in the detail. For a Canadian making 10M per year residing in Ontario vs. Florida ...he's saving roughly 1.5M per year in income tax. Not sure you can make that up in other user taxes like property, etc...

there is no doubt that the 9.5M that guys seem willing to take in Sunrise and Tampa and Vegas and Nashville ....are all reflective of the income tax rules.

factor in warm weather golf 365 days of the year and it's an attractive option.

The hundreds of dollars in auto insurance savings ...don't really speak to them. And I think IIRC Ontario has some of the highest auto insurance rates in the world. No fault insurance sucks ass.
- The Law

PS - you really don't wanna play golf down here in the summer unless you enjoy heat stroke.

I don't think many people from up north understand what a 46C Heat Index day feels like when the humidity is 90% and the dew point is 26C. It's suffocating. It's hard to deal with when you've been accustomed to it. July through September is absolutely useless for anything outdoors.

Let me clear something up. There is a misconception that US states without income taxes are "tax free" or cheaper to live in. As a long-time resident of Florida, I can state with authority that the cost of living more than accounts for any tax savings. House insurance rates are up 150% since 2020. Auto insurance rates are the highest in the nation.

Your income is not taxed by the state, but you pay inflated taxes on EVERYTHING. Fees, service charges, and other hidden taxes are added to every purchase you make.

If having no state income tax was such a huge boon, nobody would live anywhere else.

I don't see any of you guys lining up to permanently move to Florida based on taxes. Nobody in the US is doing it either. And some of them that did leave places like California or New York to avoid taxes are now regretting that decision hard.

The grass always looks greener. States with no state income tax are not greener. They just extract that revenue from residents in alternate ways.
- GalacticStone

A rebuttal - while you make very factual points - when you can sell a 850 sq ft home in Cali on 2400 sq ft lot for 775K as I did - buy a beautiful 1800 sq ft condo in Boca for 210K - avoid 10% local & huge state tax - while avoiding other fees locally & regionally - try to find an insurer who isn’t leaving the state - grind you way through layers of anti business bureaucracy-

not to mention pay 3+$ less per gal of petrol -

trust me a lot of Cali peeps are heading to Fla & other southern states and are more than happy to pay fees - & inflated ins. Premiums -

Oh man I disagree. He was nowhere near this good for Leafs especially in playoffs. His game came along I suppose - but the McJesus and Oiler PP has had a bucket load to do with that too.

For the Buds (Playoffs):
32GP
5G
8A

For Oilers: (not including tonight)
40GP
25G
15A
40Pts in 40GP

I wouldn’t have given him the contract Oilers did either.

He is an effective player but he doesn’t drive a line and the expectation is that an nhl player in the top 6 would at least compliment a line which is what he did - not sure he was the reason the line was better
- Big23Questions

He is the reincarnation of prime Chris Kunitz on steroids.

Then maybe you should pay more attention.

There were seasons where Nylander was absolutely abysmal in the playoffs, like when he held out for that 2nd contract and scored 7 goals during the season. Matthews has had multiple years where he only scored 1 playoff goal. Marner has become public enemy #1 for not putting up points when his two biggest targets missed half the series a year after he had 14 playoff points in 11 games.

All 3 of them have underachieved. But all 3 are still in their prime and need better support in other areas of the line-up. That should not come at the cost of losing any one of our best 3 players. It should come at the cost of getting rid of Tavares.
- Rare_Jewel

The point you're missing is that they need to make some changes and they waited too late to do so.

Now hindsight is 20/20 obviously and they likely felt they'd take a further step this year after making the 2nd round last year, but the reality is change is required and the only option that makes sense right now is Marner.

Still, I doubt they find a deal they like -- or get Marner to agree to waive his NMC --so I'm 95% sure they're going to let Marner get to FA and maybe try to move him around the draft for picks, which means we'll probably running it back again next year.

It's going to be enormously difficult to make some wholesale changes with this team involving the Core 4.

Thankfully they have cap space and a new coach, so Tree has a chance to build a better backend through free agency, but I seriously doubt the Core 4 is broken up this year.

That's 100% false. He can be asked to waive his NMC. If they don't ask, then he won't be traded. But plenty of players have been asked and have waived their NMC. It's not the first, wouldn't be the last either.

If they make it clear they do not want him now or going forward, he will waive and move on. It's a matter of management pushing the issue and making it known to him he has no future in Toronto. Followed by figuring out how to make the numbers work between cap floor teams to get his cap hit lowered and then the final destination where he lands for 4-5 AAV instead of 11.



No he shouldn't because he's more valuable at 11.5 AAV than Nylander is. If it boils down to "one of the big 3" have to go, it's Nylander before Marner. Marner plays against tougher competition, he is consistently among Selke candidates, he makes Matthews better, he kills penalties, he's younger and he has more career playoff points. There is no world where Marner is less valuable than Nylander for the same money.

Matthews at 13.25, Marner at 11.9 and Nylander at 11.5 is not what you would ideally want to pay those guys. Unfortunately, given how much money they lose by playing in Toronto due to taxes, that's what it costs to give them the final dollar amounts they'd make somewhere else.

Having 36 million tied in 3 forwards is indeed more difficult but not impossible. They just can't afford to have deadweight like Tavares around anymore and fill in the blanks either this year or next year.
- Rare_Jewel

You need to get off this drone about how great Marner's defence is. He's not a perennial Selke candidate, he was nominated once. Last year his defence which had already declined the year before, fell off a relative cliff. GAx60 fell from his average 2.1-2.3, to 2.55 last year.
I agree he's great at being in position most of the time, but when an opposing large forward decides to run the net, Marner is pretty useless.
Mathews on the other hand, has only gotten better.

PS - you really don't wanna play golf down here in the summer unless you enjoy heat stroke.

I don't think many people from up north understand what a 46C Heat Index day feels like when the humidity is 90% and the dew point is 26C. It's suffocating. It's hard to deal with when you've been accustomed to it. July through September is absolutely useless for anything outdoors.
- GalacticStone

Thankfully they're loaded and own cottages in Muskoka for the summer when they come back home to train.

He is the reincarnation of prime Chris Kunitz on steroids.
- AdamFrench

Worst Ducks trade …for Ryan “fatazz” Whitney 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

PS - you really don't wanna play golf down here in the summer unless you enjoy heat stroke.

I don't think many people from up north understand what a 46C Heat Index day feels like when the humidity is 90% and the dew point is 26C. It's suffocating. It's hard to deal with when you've been accustomed to it. July through September is absolutely useless for anything outdoors.
- GalacticStone

And alligators.

The dumbest things the Leafs did fell in order, one after another.

First, was trading Kadri. The next was signing Tavares. The nail in the coffin was letting Hyman walk.

To think, the Leafs could have simply kept Kadri and extended Hyman for the cap hit Tavares took up and still have 2 million to spare in between. And how far ahead did it get us? We lost two proven playoff warriors (one of them a Cup winner) for pajama boy who won 1 series in 6 years while being the 2nd highest paid player in the league the day he signed with the Leafs.
- Rare_Jewel

Enough man.

Kadri HAD to go. PERIOD! he was costing the Leafs in the Playoffs. He did the same in Colorado until the one year they won the cup

And yet has more career playoff points than Matthews and Nylander.
- Rare_Jewel

take out that one blow out game were he got all his points and BOOM!!! he doesn't

PS - you really don't wanna play golf down here in the summer unless you enjoy heat stroke.

I don't think many people from up north understand what a 46C Heat Index day feels like when the humidity is 90% and the dew point is 26C. It's suffocating. It's hard to deal with when you've been accustomed to it. July through September is absolutely useless for anything outdoors.
- GalacticStone

It gets ungolfable mid-day in the summer up here too. You gotta golf 9 in the morning, hit the beach/pool for the afternoon, little siesta, another 9 around 6, and then a late dinner on a patio.

It gets ungolfable mid-day in the summer up here too. You gotta golf 9 in the morning, hit the beach/pool for the afternoon, little siesta, another 9 around 6, and then a late dinner on a patio.
- The Law

Wuss.

Just put your umbrella up.