do we know this even happens?
- homiedclown

We'll find out soon enough. The cleansing was a few years ago, yes? We're going to find out how good these picks were/are.

I look forward to them doing this all over again in another year
- homiedclown

they stopped doing this shuffling I believe two summers ago. when they were bare bones. and hired one guy at a time because they didnt give a poop if they were good yet

We'll find out soon enough. The cleansing was a few years ago, yes? We're going to find out how good these picks were/are.
- Powerslave

i dont think it wise to look at it as common denominator instead of a team effort. we don't know who is responsible for what picks, if scouts were ever over ruled by other parties, etc. these records are all private.

we'll know in a few years if this group is worth its salt.

valid question. it's impossible to pull up a scouting record for these guys, how much input they have into each player picked. it's all speculation. it's fair to ask why each has lasted so long, and why forton kept getting promoted.
- TheSabresTaco

If you can't figure out who to directly blame, which is impossible in hindsight, then the blame is equally shared, and you get rid of the entire staff to bring on a new staff with fresh perspectives.

Botterill was the GM (no poop) but as the GM he oversees his staff. It is entirely possible that he was fired with all those scouts in part because of this negligence. Stephen Greely and Randy Sexton were also fired and I guess Greely was a jerkoff. Jeff Crisp was the Assistant Director and Ryan Jankowski was the Director.

Stephen Greely- Fired, re-hired a year later as director of scouting in Dallas
Randy Sexton- Fired, re-hired a year later as senior advisor in Minnesota for one year
Ryan Jankowski-Fired, re-hired in Arizona in same role
Jeff Crisp-Fired, re-hired in Seattle as scout
- TheSabresTaco

Won't pretend to know anything about them, but watching guys get hired elsewhere immediately always makes you wonder.

If you can't figure out who to directly blame, which is impossible in hindsight, then the blame is equally shared, and you get rid of the entire staff to bring on a new staff with fresh perspectives.
- kingcong39

I don't disagree with the idea necessarily but we here have no idea what these people bring to the table. The Florida Panthers were bad with Sasha Barkov at one point.

Won't pretend to know anything about them, but watching guys get hired elsewhere immediately always makes you wonder.
- Lunaion

Sure. But what if they were fired for said scandal? Or being in charge of the idiots who performed such scandal. Doesn't make them unable to perform their jobs, they're just.. i don't know. idiots. Disciplinary actions are different.

Greely was demoted. Crisp was demoted. Jankowski went to Arizona and kept the same title, so he was demoted too.

Foudy played more games and was a year older. Johnston was 16 in 19-20.

McTavish the #3 pick in the same draft had 42 in 57 on a not so deep Petes team. Most likely getting more ice time/pp time.

He was ranked low cause he only played at U18's that year. Thats 7 games to base off of. No body knows the body of work he would have put in had he played over seas in his draft year. Very well could of been a top 10 pick.
- DirtyDan

I getcha, but Foudy was also a 3rd round pick and McTavish, as you say, had a bigger sample size. I guess my point is simply that I agree he COULD have been a top10 pick had he played, but he didn't. In actuality he was a late 1st/early 2nd flyer. Othmann, as an example, had a similar point total, played overseas the next year, but went 16th. We can't be down on Adams over not selecting Johnston 2 picks earlier than that.

If you can't figure out who to directly blame, which is impossible in hindsight, then the blame is equally shared, and you get rid of the entire staff to bring on a new staff with fresh perspectives.
- kingcong39

Also, Greeley helped oversee the Botterill drafts (worthless) and the Dallas drafts for the past two summers (not worthless)

good example of collective, not the guy.

Won't pretend to know anything about them, but watching guys get hired elsewhere immediately always makes you wonder.
- Lunaion

If you have scouting experience, you'll always be considered for a job.

Scouting-wise, every team's dept. misses on picks more than they hit on them, and it's not even close. From an article:

63% of first round picks played in the NHL, but less than 25% of second round picks survived and only 12% of third round selections. And it just keeps getting worse from there. Former NHL general manager Doug MacLean said his math over the last decade showed that only 15% of second round picks ever become impact players.

And then you have the NFL, where draftees are 3-4 years older (so, in theory, you should be closer to knowing who/what you're getting in a player): only 30% of players drafted into the NFL go on to play in the league.

Ripping on a scouting department is laughable, imo. Some of it is hard work, due diligence, having an eye, etc, but much of it is luck.

Also, Greeley helped oversee the Botterill drafts (worthless) and the Dallas drafts for the past two summers (not worthless)

good example of collective, not the guy.
- TheSabresTaco

More annual evidence that when people leave Buffalo's organization they improve....
.

Ripping on a scouting department is laughable,.
- Powerslave

there is a reason some teams get gems in rounds 3 4 and 5 while the sabres have had literally nothing since Marcus Foligno

there is some luck and some skill

More annual evidence that when people leave Buffalo's organization they improve....
.
- washedup20

- homiedclown

This list is long

there is a reason some teams get gems in rounds 3 4 and 5 while the sabres have had literally nothing since Marcus Foligno

there is some luck and some skill
- homiedclown

Is it scouting or is it development?

Big difference. So and so might have the raw skills, but was developed poorly.

And some of it is on the player, too.

Lots of factors at play here.

Bottom line, blame the owners.

Is it scouting or is it development?

Big difference. So and so might have the raw skills, but was developed poorly.

And some of it is on the player, too.

Lots of factors at play here.

Bottom line, blame the owners.
- Powerslave

The Remi Elie's and Dalton Smith's should never be part of the list of 50 sabres under contract

The Remi Elie's and Dalton Smith's should never be part of the list of 50 sabres under contract
- homiedclown

Agreed.

Ironically, Elie drafted in the second round by the Stars.

Is it scouting or is it development?

Big difference. So and so might have the raw skills, but was developed poorly.

And some of it is on the player, too.

Lots of factors at play here.

Bottom line, blame the owners.
- Powerslave

Think it's a little difficult to say it has anything to with development when a clear and obvious pick for the Sabres, like Johnston, played immediately in the NHL and has played 164 games already.

Dude has played 82 games in back to back seasons. What a Development Project of a player!!!!

Think it's a little difficult to say it has anything to with development when a clear and obvious pick for the Sabres, like Johnston, played immediately in the NHL and has played 164 games already.

Dude has played 82 games in back to back seasons. What a Development Project of a player!!!!
- Hatboro_Swords

Funny, I don't remember you clamoring for him at the time. For such an obvious pick, I'd think you'd have voiced some displeasure prior to the kid scoring 30g. Seems more likely that hindsight is 20/20.

Funny, I don't remember you clamoring for him at the time. For such an obvious pick, I'd think you'd have voiced some displeasure prior to the kid scoring 30g. Seems more likely that hindsight is 20/20.
- QuinnFan

Development Project of a Player!!!!! 2 players played more games then him. Good call

another 30 point guy?


FFS
- homiedclown

At least Benson got to 30, another highly regarded short king in Jack Hughes only got 21 his rookie year.

Heck, Hughes didn’t crack 40 till year 3.

At least Benson got to 30, another highly regarded short king in Jack Hughes only got 21 his rookie year.

Heck, Hughes didn’t crack 40 till year 3.
- Swedish_Jesus

Nail Yakupov - rookie season (18) 48 gp 17g 14a = 31 points...Benson only got 30 points..............in 71 games played!

Also, Greeley helped oversee the Botterill drafts (worthless) and the Dallas drafts for the past two summers (not worthless)

good example of collective, not the guy.
- TheSabresTaco

Half the Team is from Botts drafts, and a few players acquired Bryam from Mitts

Half the Team is from Botts drafts, and a few players acquired Bryam from Mitts
- Buff36

picking up mittelstadt, cozens, upl and samuelsson, alrite good job. im not inclined to give him much more credit.

picking up mittelstadt, cozens, upl and samuelsson, alrite good job. im not inclined to give him much more credit.
- TheSabresTaco

You seem pretty confident in Adams late picks...that have proven nothing yet though...is this because Botts couldn't get jalapenos on the menu?