So Lebrun sayin Bertuzzi wanting 5-6mil and his agent sayin he may test the market.

Yeah, if he and Domi want 5-6 each let em walk.

I hope you realize Marner is 1st in points among RW the past 5 seasons combined.

5th in assists among all players, 7th in points, 2nd most takeaways behind only Matthews.

There's no chance he's worth less than Nylander.
- Rare_Jewel

Playing with 34 and grabbing secondary assists.

He’s maybe the 8th (or 7th?) best winger in the league. In the regular season. I have no clue off top of my head the number of wingers who are better in the playoff. To be safe I’d say he’s maybe more productive than Rempe in games 5,6,7?

I hope you realize Marner is 1st in points among RW the past 5 seasons combined.

5th in assists among all players, 7th in points, 2nd most takeaways behind only Matthews.

There's no chance he's worth less than Nylander.
- Rare_Jewel

Here’s the thing for me! Some players write their own salary. For example, AM gets his points and goals no matter who he plays with. AM drives his own line. For me that’s not the case with Marner. Those stats are significantly lower without AM and Willie. I just don’t see him being a driver. Do you think the Bruins trade Pasta straight up for Marner? Does Florida trade Tkachuk straight up for Marner? Hell does Ottawa trade Tkachuk straight up for Marner! I could go on listing players that make less that those teams would not trade for Marner. That’s my salary reasoning.

Here’s the thing for me! Some players write their own salary. For example, AM gets his points and goals no matter who he plays with. AM drives his own line. For me that’s not the case with Marner. Those stats are significantly lower without AM and Willie. I just don’t see him being a driver. Do you think the Bruins trade Pasta straight up for Marner? Does Florida trade Tkachuk straight up for Marner? Hell does Ottawa trade Tkachuk straight up for Marner! I could go on listing players that make less that those teams would not trade for Marner. That’s my salary reasoning.
- Bullot

I don’t know (none of us do) about the salary - but absolutely correct on all other points.

Just for a bit more normalcy in here I bloody hope so - if for nothing else eh
- Big23Questions

It can be normal even if hes not dealt
Some just need to stop whining.

I don’t know (none of us do) about the salary - but absolutely correct on all other points.
- Big23Questions

Appreciate having a civil discussion on here and not being personally attacked. Thank-you and appreciate your position.

The decisions already been made. Matthews and Nylander have extensions.
- joel878

Still can be traded.

But most likely marner.

So Lebrun sayin Bertuzzi wanting 5-6mil and his agent sayin he may test the market.

Yeah, if he and Domi want 5-6 each let em walk.
- Roadrunner75

Yup (frank) them both.
Get toffoli

Playing with 34 and grabbing secondary assists.
- Big23Questions

Nice try but Marner had 34 primary assists to 16 secondary assists this past season. 68% primary assists.

McDavid? 61 primary to 39 secondary. I guess McDavid sucks too because 39% of his assists are 2nd assists.

Marner's 1st vs 2nd assists the years prior?

40-29 last season...
36-27 the year before that...
34-14 the year before that...
32-19 the year before that...

And so on and so on...

Your argument holds as much water as a balloon on a cactus.

The idea that secondary assists aren't important is also laughable. They have kept the 2nd assist as a point for ages and the reason is because those plays can contribute to creating goals just as much as the primary assist.

It can be normal even if hes not dealt
Some just need to stop whining.
- Fakepartofme

Oh man that’s wishful thinking. The Mitchy obsessed will never stop whining about Willy and how everyone is so mean to poor little Mitchy Marner.

I just think it would be refreshing. Like an ice cold Fresca on a hot summer day refreshing

Here’s the thing for me! Some players write their own salary. For example, AM gets his points and goals no matter who he plays with. AM drives his own line. For me that’s not the case with Marner. Those stats are significantly lower without AM and Willie. I just don’t see him being a driver. Do you think the Bruins trade Pasta straight up for Marner? Does Florida trade Tkachuk straight up for Marner? Hell does Ottawa trade Tkachuk straight up for Marner! I could go on listing players that make less that those teams would not trade for Marner. That’s my salary reasoning.
- Bullot

Matthews plays better with Marner than anybody else. You think your #1 goal scorer is going to be happy without his #1 playmaker? I doubt it very much.

Matthews does not drive poop in the playoffs by himself. He had 1 goal this year and has had many 1 goal performances before that too. If you take away his best playmaker and expect him to be even better in the playoffs, that's a pipe dream.

Pasta and Tkachuk don't do poop playing in Toronto. They're fantastic players but also benefit from being on teams that are built better and coached better than the Leafs. Put Marner in Florida or Boston and he puts up points like crazy.

The Leafs have star players and elite talent. What they don't have is a clue how to put it to good use.

Nice try but Marner had 34 primary assists to 16 secondary assists this past season.

40-29 last season...
36-27 the year before that...
34-14 the year before that...
32-19 the year before that...

And so on and so on...

Your argument holds as much water as a balloon on a cactus.

The idea that secondary assists aren't important is also laughable. They have kept the 2nd assist as a point for ages and the reason is because those plays can contribute to creating goals just as much as the primary assist.
- Rare_Jewel

You can go back to the countless times I’ve posted a head to head Willy vs Marner over last 7 years and highlighted primary at points….neck and neck over last 7 years. You know what wasn’t neck and neck? Giveaways and Dzone giveaways - mitchy had a landslide win in that

You can go back to the countless times I’ve posted a head to head Willy vs Marner over last 7 years and highlighted primary at points….neck and neck over last 7 years. You know what wasn’t neck and neck? Giveaways and Dzone giveaways - mitchy had a landslide win in that
- Big23Questions

You're trying to move the goalposts. You said Marner only gets points because he plays with Matthews and gets a bunch of 2nd assists. I proved otherwise.

Marner had 34 primary assists to 16 secondary assists this past season. 68% primary assists.

40-29 last season...
36-27 the year before that...
34-14 the year before that...
32-19 the year before that...

What about the 1st year Tavares came to the Leafs and Marner played with Tavares instead of Matthews? Oh, look, Tavares had a career high 47 goals.

Marner? 52 primary assists, 16 secondary assists (77% primary). Must have been because of Matthews that season too.

How has Tavares looked since Marner stopped playing with him? Oh, in steady decline? You don't say!

McDavid had 61 primary to 39 secondary this past season. I guess McDavid sucks too because 39% of his assists are 2nd assists.

Marner's giveaways (357) are in the same range as McDavid's (351) the past 5 years. But again, Marner has 352 takeaways over that same span, 2nd only to Matthews.

Pasta? 403 giveaways. Draisaitl 444. Tkachuk 362. Barzal 388. Panarin 353.

Marner had 205 blocked shots. Plays way more PK time than all the names we've listed, including Matthews and Nylander.

Matthews, Tavares, Nylander all 290+ 5v5 goals against last 5 years combined. Marner 264.

Offensive players who pass the puck a lot, have a lot of giveaways. It's how the game works. Nylander plays against weaker competition and doesn't have nearly the takeaways. Marner also passes the puck a lot more than Nylander because of the type of player he is. More passes mean more giveaways. It's like saying a QB has more INT than a WR. Of course, because the QB passes the ball, the WR catches it.

I have this black garlic and chocolate habanero hot sauce from Mojo, a local hot sauce company. Mixed it into mayo to make a dip for chicken strips. I can't even comprehend how tasty it is.

Also when people say Marner can't drive a line and create points, respectfully I would have no idea how we could watch Marner's career and see such different things cause I don't agree with that at all.

Matthews plays better with Marner than anybody else. You think your #1 goal scorer is going to be happy without his #1 playmaker? I doubt it very much.

Matthews does not drive poop in the playoffs by himself. He had 1 goal this year and has had many 1 goal performances before that too. If you take away his best playmaker and expect him to be even better in the playoffs, that's a pipe dream.

Pasta and Tkachuk don't do poop playing in Toronto. They're fantastic players but also benefit from being on teams that are built better and coached better than the Leafs. Put Marner in Florida or Boston and he puts up points like crazy.

The Leafs have star players and elite talent. What they don't have is a clue how to put it to good use.
- Rare_Jewel

I’d rather pay Bert and Domi a total of $11 and play them with AM, then pay MM $12 to play with AM. Honestly think he does better with them, and he actually didn’t play much with MM this year and had an amazing season. I agree with playoffs, that’s a whole different story. With respect to McJesus, the guy was like 40th in the league for goals this year. I just don’t think a team can be successful paying 4 players $11mil +++. Not happening. Would you trade MM for Brady Tkachuk? I know I would in a flash, that’s the kind of player leafs need and yes, a coach that knows what to do with his players. Let’s see what Berube brings.

I’d rather pay Bert and Domi a total of $11 and play them with AM, then pay MM $12 to play with AM. Honestly think he does better with them, and he actually didn’t play much with MM this year and had an amazing season. I agree with playoffs, that’s a whole different story. With respect to McJesus, the guy was like 40th in the league for goals this year. I just don’t think a team can be successful paying 4 players $11mil +++. Not happening. Would you trade MM for Brady Tkachuk? I know I would in a flash, that’s the kind of player leafs need and yes, a coach that knows what to do with his players. Let’s see what Berube brings.
- Bullot

Domi had 9 goals and 47 points. Bertuzzi was invisible for 40 games this year and also did nothing in the playoffs even though everybody was sure he would be a playoff beast against his former team. In no universe do you pay those guys 6 each and become a better team, especially as they hit the wrong side of 30.

No, I wouldn't. I'd trade Nylander but not Marner for Tkachuk. Because Marner is your #1 playmaker for Matthews. But Ottawa isn't trading their captain to the Leafs for anybody other than Matthews anyway so it's a moot point.

If the Leafs give Berube prime years Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, Parayko and Dunn with Binnington behind them, then maybe Berube gets the Leafs a Cup. Otherwise, I don't see him making a big enough difference with what they have.

You're trying to move the goalposts. You said Marner only gets points because he plays with Matthews and gets a bunch of 2nd assists. I proved otherwise.

Marner had 34 primary assists to 16 secondary assists this past season. 68% primary assists.

40-29 last season...
36-27 the year before that...
34-14 the year before that...
32-19 the year before that...

What about the 1st year Tavares came to the Leafs and Marner played with Tavares instead of Matthews? Oh, look, Tavares had a career high 47 goals.

Marner? 52 primary assists, 16 secondary assists (77% primary). Must have been because of Matthews that season too.

How has Tavares looked since Marner stopped playing with him? Oh, in steady decline? You don't say!

McDavid had 61 primary to 39 secondary this past season. I guess McDavid sucks too because 39% of his assists are 2nd assists.

Marner's giveaways (357) are in the same range as McDavid's (351) the past 5 years. But again, Marner has 352 takeaways over that same span, 2nd only to Matthews.

Pasta? 403 giveaways. Draisaitl 444. Tkachuk 362. Barzal 388. Panarin 353.

Marner had 205 blocked shots. Plays way more PK time than all the names we've listed, including Matthews and Nylander.

Matthews, Tavares, Nylander all 290+ 5v5 goals against last 5 years combined. Marner 264.

Offensive players who pass the puck a lot, have a lot of giveaways. It's how the game works. Nylander plays against weaker competition and doesn't have nearly the takeaways. Marner also passes the puck a lot more than Nylander because of the type of player he is. More passes mean more giveaways. It's like saying a QB has more INT than a WR. Of course, because the QB passes the ball, the WR catches it.
- Rare_Jewel

Nobody is afraid of MM, people don’t like playing Tkachuk, either of them. There are stats that can’t be put on paper. Watching Edmundson during playoffs was proof of this. You could almost see guys were looking around and hesitant when he was on the ice. Not saying MM doesn’t have his value, just that the Leafs formula doesn’t work and absolutely NO way do I pay MM more than he’s making now. Same with Bennet on Florida, his impact can’t be made into stats. I take Bert and Domi and Bennet over MM all day long, and the salaries probably aren’t that different.

You're trying to move the goalposts. You said Marner only gets points because he plays with Matthews and gets a bunch of 2nd assists. I proved otherwise.

Marner had 34 primary assists to 16 secondary assists this past season. 68% primary assists.

40-29 last season...
36-27 the year before that...
34-14 the year before that...
32-19 the year before that...

What about the 1st year Tavares came to the Leafs and Marner played with Tavares instead of Matthews? Oh, look, Tavares had a career high 47 goals.

Marner? 52 primary assists, 16 secondary assists (77% primary). Must have been because of Matthews that season too.

How has Tavares looked since Marner stopped playing with him? Oh, in steady decline? You don't say!

McDavid had 61 primary to 39 secondary this past season. I guess McDavid sucks too because 39% of his assists are 2nd assists.

Marner's giveaways (357) are in the same range as McDavid's (351) the past 5 years. But again, Marner has 352 takeaways over that same span, 2nd only to Matthews.

Pasta? 403 giveaways. Draisaitl 444. Tkachuk 362. Barzal 388. Panarin 353.

Marner had 205 blocked shots. Plays way more PK time than all the names we've listed, including Matthews and Nylander.

Matthews, Tavares, Nylander all 290+ 5v5 goals against last 5 years combined. Marner 264.

Offensive players who pass the puck a lot, have a lot of giveaways. It's how the game works. Nylander plays against weaker competition and doesn't have nearly the takeaways. Marner also passes the puck a lot more than Nylander because of the type of player he is. More passes mean more giveaways. It's like saying a QB has more INT than a WR. Of course, because the QB passes the ball, the WR catches it.
- Rare_Jewel

Nope. I’m saying he gets inflated points cause he plays with 34. 34 scores with anyone - Marner struggled without him.

Marner is good on pk not 5v5 defensively

Since 2016

Marner
G - 193
Primary Assists- 263
Total Primary Pts- 456
Giveaways - 539
Dzone Giveaways- 200
Takeaways - 576 (impressive for sure!)


Willy
G - 211
Primary Assists- 198
Total Primary Pts- 409
Giveaways - 301
Dzone Giveaways- 99
Takeaways - 426

Marner - $57,187,501
Willy - $47,772,109

A $9,415,392 difference in salary for 47 more primary points??

Nobody is afraid of MM, people don’t like playing Tkachuk, either of them. There are stats that can’t be put on paper. Watching Edmundson during playoffs was proof of this. You could almost see guys were looking around and hesitant when he was on the ice. Not saying MM doesn’t have his value, just that the Leafs formula doesn’t work and absolutely NO way do I pay MM more than he’s making now. Same with Bennet on Florida, his impact can’t be made into stats. I take Bert and Domi and Bennet over MM all day long, and the salaries probably aren’t that different.
- Bullot

I don't care how afraid anybody is of Brady Tkachuk, he's been in the NHL 6 years and never made the playoffs. You can't fear a guy that doesn't even make it.

Edmundson was a pylon, even at his best in St. Louis, he was a 3rd pairing guy with 4 way better guys doing all the hardest work. He was on the ice for an average of 1 goal against in 16 min per game in the playoffs.

Marner is not Wendel Clark. Everybody knows that. But that's not his job. Stop trying to replace Marner with a tough guy power forward and begin to realize you need a power forward to play WITH Marner, not in exchange for him. You gain one big piece and you lose another. You're no further ahead.

Domi had 9 goals and 47 points. Bertuzzi was invisible for 40 games this year and also did nothing in the playoffs even though everybody was sure he would be a playoff beast against his former team. In no universe do you pay those guys 6 each and become a better team, especially as they hit the wrong side of 30.

No, I wouldn't. I'd trade Nylander but not Marner for Tkachuk. Because Marner is your #1 playmaker for Matthews. But Ottawa isn't trading their captain to the Leafs for anybody other than Matthews anyway so it's a moot point.

If the Leafs give Berube prime years Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, Parayko and Dunn with Binnington behind them, then maybe Berube gets the Leafs a Cup. Otherwise, I don't see him making a big enough difference with what they have.
- Rare_Jewel

For sure Bert and Ernie took their time getting rolling. I really liked them with AM, and that was when they got rolling. They both looked like different players. MM hardly played with AM this year, probably the least of any of his years.

Also when people say Marner can't drive a line and create points, respectfully I would have no idea how we could watch Marner's career and see such different things cause I don't agree with that at all.
- Zezel

34 drives line - line scores no matter who he plays with.

When JT struggled (when Mitch was there) meaner points declined with JTs and the line struggled. When JT played well - he and Mitch got pts (so as result like scored)…JT can no longer drive a line Marner never could.

That’s the way I look at it anyways

Nope. I’m saying he gets inflated points cause he plays with 34. 34 scores with anyone - Marner struggled without him.

Marner is good on pk not 5v5 defensively
- Big23Questions

And you'd be wrong.

I don't care how afraid anybody is of Brady Tkachuk, he's been in the NHL 6 years and never made the playoffs. You can't fear a guy that doesn't even make it.

Edmundson was a pylon, even at his best in St. Louis, he was a 3rd pairing guy with 4 way better guys doing all the hardest work. He was on the ice for an average of 1 goal against in 16 min per game in the playoffs.

Marner is not Wendel Clark. Everybody knows that. But that's not his job. Stop trying to replace Marner with a tough guy power forward and begin to realize you need a power forward to play WITH Marner, not in exchange for him. You gain one big piece and you lose another. You're no further ahead.
- Rare_Jewel

We can’t win with three powder puffs! Three powder puffs making $38mil after MM negotiates his new contract. That’s the problem. How do you solve that? Everybody knows how to beat the Leafs. How are you fixing that?