Teams knew the flyers 100% wanted to move on from hayes. They had next to no leverage.

Had they kept hayes in the spot where he was productive, torts not whine about him, and in a way sabotage hayes they could have received more back. How much more is the debate.
- hello it's me 2050

This is a good point. It is possible that it wasn't Tort's assessment of Hayes that affected his trade value. It was the fact that Tort's actions put the Flyers in a "must-sell" position.

Yup, they knew what they were doing when they hired him.

Can't believe we're eating it up -- the absolute most idiotic fanbase in all of sports.
- Tomahawk

I dunno if we are more idiotic. Sports fans are pretty stupid in general, honestly.

My god is he ever healthy anymore? It’s like if Forsberg’s foot was a person.
- hereticpride

Sort of predictable. So often back/hip/knee surgeries and then return leads to groin procedures. Part of the blame may lie with his usage in the early part of the season. I was surprised at the minutes and roles he was being asked to play after a nearly 2 year gap.

I dunno if we are more idiotic. Sports fans are pretty stupid in general, honestly.
- PT21

It is just a dumb game after all. To me the whole point of it is to have fun. If I were brighter I might persue a more lofty pastime. Perhaps birdwatching?

He just likes to contradict me just for the sake of it. Glad you put him in his place. Can't ague with numbers, right MJL?
- jd250

I don't contradict you. I simply point out on a daily basis how wrong and misinformed you are. The larger the sample size, the better. Laughton has played at a higher level for longer than Poehling has.

Do you think Tort’s opinion of Hayes really affected his trade value?
- Dkos

His usage and how he handled him certainly did. Which is basically his opinion of him.

No, I think Hayes' contract and lack of production affected his trade value.
- jd250

Hayes was producing at a career high level before Tortorella screwed with him.

No, I think Hayes' contract and lack of production affected his trade value.
- jd250

The fact the entire NHL knew Hayes could no longer play for the Flyers under Torts affected his value.

Agreed. Folks just like to complain.
- Dkos

His career high in points....

His career high in points....
- MBFlyerfan

And yet there was no interest in the guy. I’m just saying if Hayes had more value as a player more teams would have had interest and the price would have been driven higher. Everyone could see that the Flyers wanted him out. Either Briere took the first offer he got or there wasn’t much interest. I’m not arguing that how Torts treated him was smart in any way., but I do find it funny that so many people are eager now to criticize the Flyers for doing the opposite with Laughton.

It is just a dumb game after all. To me the whole point of it is to have fun. If I were brighter I might persue a more lofty pastime. Perhaps birdwatching?
- Dkos

For me, the fun is not so much the spectacle but the thrill of watching every game thinking ok my team has a reasonable chance to win it all. I do want to be on that rollercoaster, just on a higher plane. Not rolling up and down some mudpile when I knew the ultimate prize is on a mountain.

As for birdwatching, that would certainly have required you to elevate your gaze.

And yet there was no interest in the guy. I’m just saying if Hayes had more value as a player more teams would have had interest and the price would have been driven higher. Everyone could see that the Flyers wanted him out. Either Briere took the first offer he got or there wasn’t much interest. I’m not arguing that how Torts treated him was smart in any way., but I do find it funny that so many people are eager now to criticize the Flyers for doing the opposite with Laughton.
- Dkos

\

yeah, and that speaks to the original debate that Torts tanked his value.

And yet there was no interest in the guy. I’m just saying if Hayes had more value as a player more teams would have had interest and the price would have been driven higher. Everyone could see that the Flyers wanted him out. Either Briere took the first offer he got or there wasn’t much interest. I’m not arguing that how Torts treated him was smart in any way., but I do find it funny that so many people are eager now to criticize the Flyers for doing the opposite with Laughton.
- Dkos

Each situation needs to be looked at independently and on it's own merits. Is it really a stretch to say that the Flyers could've gotten a better return than a 6th round pick while retaining 50% if they had kept playing him higher up in the lineup and let his offensive season continue? Is that really such an outlandish thought?

Each situation needs to be looked at independently and on it's own merits. Is it really a stretch to say that the Flyers could've gotten a better return than a 6th round pick while retaining 50% if they had kept playing him higher up in the lineup and let his offensive season continue? Is that really such an outlandish thought?
- MJL

It’s not outlandish at all, but everyone was aware that Tortorella was just messing with Hayes. Everyone was aware that he didn’t suddenly change as a player. As many pointed out he was having a good year until Torts started messing with him. If we all could see his drop in production was because of Torts antics wouldn’t other GMs see it too? Doesn’t the player deserve some blame too? Couldn’t how he reacted to things be partly to blame for his drop in value? The way he chose to just ignore the coach? The way he seemed like he didn’t care?

For me, the fun is not so much the spectacle but the thrill of watching every game thinking ok my team has a reasonable chance to win it all. I do want to be on that rollercoaster, just on a higher plane. Not rolling up and down some mudpile when I knew the ultimate prize is on a mountain.

As for birdwatching, that would certainly have required you to elevate your gaze.
- PT21

Ha ha ha

I like the competition, the speed, the skill. I’m a Flyers fan for better or worse. I can hate how they’re doing things all I want, but it won’t change anything. I guess instead I just take the good when I can get it. I don’t confuse the team’s winning with my winning. If being a flyers fan made me as miserable as it seems to make some others I would just stop watching.

It’s not outlandish at all, but everyone was aware that Tortorella was just messing with Hayes. Everyone was aware that he didn’t suddenly change as a player. As many pointed out he was having a good year until Torts started messing with him. If we all could see his drop in production was because of Torts antics wouldn’t other GMs see it too? Doesn’t the player deserve some blame too? Couldn’t how he reacted to things be partly to blame for his drop in value? The way he chose to just ignore the coach? The way he seemed like he didn’t care?
- Dkos

I don't think either of those last two statements are true. Simply the best thing to have done for the future of the team was to keep playing Hayes in the top of the lineup. Hope that he continued producing. Putting you in a better position to move him.

This is a good point. It is possible that it wasn't Tort's assessment of Hayes that affected his trade value. It was the fact that Tort's actions put the Flyers in a "must-sell" position.
- PT21

Why does a coach demote a player and cut his ice time? Is that not from his assessment of the player?

Why does a coach demote a player and cut his ice time? Is that not from his assessment of the player?
- MJL

Punishment? With Torts it seems to be to create conflict. Spark a confrontation. He sees it as a way to motivate a player I guess?

I don't think either of those last two statements are true. Simply the best thing to have done for the future of the team was to keep playing Hayes in the top of the lineup. Hope that he continued producing. Putting you in a better position to move him.
- MJL

I agree. It was stupid.

My memory isn’t great, but I do recall Hayes saying he didn’t talk to the coach about the benchings and demotion. Said he wasn’t going to talk to him about it.

As silly as it is part of Tortorella’s job is to create this magical culture. If the GM and POHO didn’t want Hayes gone too he’d still be here.

I agree. It was stupid.

My memory isn’t great, but I do recall Hayes saying he didn’t talk to the coach about the benchings and demotion. Said he wasn’t going to talk to him about it.

As silly as it is part of Tortorella’s job is to create this magical culture. If the GM and POHO didn’t want Hayes gone too he’d still be here.
- Dkos

Tortorella is the leader of the hen house. If he wants a player gone bad enough, he's gone.