There are thousands of "what if's" with this team right now. If a lot of those questions get answered in the positive, it's not outside the realm that they can stretch to 80-90 pts. A couple things I like:

1) No one will be given a spot, they all have to be earned.
2) The increased number of vets available increase the chance that players at least will know where they should be.
3) I really don't think you can overstate how important the Broissoit signing is. Much higher quality 1B and will keep Mrazek fresher.
- Chunk

The Vanacker pick looks like it may end up being a steal as well.

Lotta potential and I think the encouraging thing is that the players they picked have an identity, built some success individually but also seem to know how to play within a team.

Even if there is a standard success rate - I think the guys that do make it will force them to make some difficult decisions in the next 3-5 years.

Nah, they're in the bottom half of NBA pay rolls and a mediocre team.

If they had interest in winning - not dissimilar to the white sox - they could open their check book and build a contender with something other than bargain and trash bins.
- fattybeef

They have the highest paid front office who have bombed miserably. This can't be all blamed on the Lonzo Ball injury. They appear to have gone all in on the last "remodel" which didn't pan out and have no plan B.

Right, the Blackhawks drafting Levshunov tells me they believe he has a chance to be one of the best defenseman in the league. Many thought the Ducks were drafting a dman? I wonder if Arty was their 2nd over all as well.

Let's face it they really don't know, it's just an educated guess.
- BetweenTheDots

Yes, if Demidov was the next Datysuk/Kane why did he fall to 5th?

Being in the 75 point range is probably a really good step and based on the research I've done myself looking at teams climbing out of the bottom over the last 30 years, probably realistic.

I look at our Central Div last season, we had
Dal - 113 pts
Win - 110 pts
Col - 107 pts
Nash - 99 pts
StL - 92 pts
Min - 87 pts
Utah - 77 pts
Chi - 52 pts

We were the only really bad team and I can't see too many of our rivals falling off too hard. I can see a case for saying maybe Dallas and Winnipeg are slightly weaker year over year, but not much. Colorado looks dangerous still. Nashville added big and could climb above the wildcard. St Louis maybe struggles a bit, but probably not going to be awful. Minny is inconsistent but has some good young players too. Utah might be in the mix for postseason, they have some under-rated guys.

I just can't see right now who we'd beat out in the Central. I think we'd need an incredible improvement from out young guys to get there, like Bedard on pace for 100+ points, Reichel playing like a legit top 6, Kurashev shoring up more of his game, Korchinski rivalling Jones offensively, Nazar playing like a Calder candidate.
etc..

Maybe some of those things can happen, but feels like we'd need a perfect storm of young guys just hitting their stride to get there next season and I can't see it.
- breadbag

I hate the Preds hope all their big signings fall flat on their faces.

Being in the 75 point range is probably a really good step and based on the research I've done myself looking at teams climbing out of the bottom over the last 30 years, probably realistic.

I look at our Central Div last season, we had
Dal - 113 pts
Win - 110 pts
Col - 107 pts
Nash - 99 pts
StL - 92 pts
Min - 87 pts
Utah - 77 pts
Chi - 52 pts

We were the only really bad team and I can't see too many of our rivals falling off too hard. I can see a case for saying maybe Dallas and Winnipeg are slightly weaker year over year, but not much. Colorado looks dangerous still. Nashville added big and could climb above the wildcard. St Louis maybe struggles a bit, but probably not going to be awful. Minny is inconsistent but has some good young players too. Utah might be in the mix for postseason, they have some under-rated guys.

I just can't see right now who we'd beat out in the Central. I think we'd need an incredible improvement from out young guys to get there, like Bedard on pace for 100+ points, Reichel playing like a legit top 6, Kurashev shoring up more of his game, Korchinski rivalling Jones offensively, Nazar playing like a Calder candidate.
etc..

Maybe some of those things can happen, but feels like we'd need a perfect storm of young guys just hitting their stride to get there next season and I can't see it.
- breadbag

Tall task, but I think the Hawks beat out STL and Minny this year. I think Minny is in a world of hurt.

The Vanacker pick looks like it may end up being a steal as well.

Lotta potential and I think the encouraging thing is that the players they picked have an identity, built some success individually but also seem to know how to play within a team.

Even if there is a standard success rate - I think the guys that do make it will force them to make some difficult decisions in the next 3-5 years.
- fattybeef

I think Rinzel and Moore turn pro after this college season two college years seems to be where KD wants to be.

Tall task, but I think the Hawks beat out STL and Minny this year. I think Minny is in a world of hurt.
- Chunk

Bedard will need about 90 points for that to happen.

Bedard will need about 90 points for that to happen.
- rpeters01

Maybe, but they've added a bunch more offense to the team.

TT, Bertuzzi, Miyheyev, what should be a healthy Hall.
Properly slotting Donato, Foligno, AA.
Losing guys like Entwistle, R. Johnson, Raddysh, and T. Johnson's mopey ass.
Brodie and Martinez would have been the #2 and 3 blueline scorers last year.
The overall team defense should be better with the additions.
Brossoit over Soda.
They actually have capable replacements if guys get hurt.

I know this all sounds like I've been on a 3 day Kool-Aid bender, but it's a vastly improved roster that should have more playing and less learning going on during games.

I have no idea where this team ends up, but I could see a 20-25 point improvement, which will make them more watchable. If the kids are better at season end than when they start the season, that’s a win. Was KK better at the end of last season than when the year started? I would say yes, he improved defensively. If he has a linear improvement curve this year, that will bode well for the Hawks. I do understand that development is not always linear, so we’ll see.

Celebrini was a outlier with regards to Canadian talent going to the NCAA. Usually if a Canadian player goes the NCAA route, he will not be invited to the Canadian national team unless he is well above average, as Celebrini was. These politics have been a point of contention in the past on previous WJ teams that have lost.

Levshunov would have gone to the CHL if he was allowed to be drafted in the CHL European draft, but he went the USHL/NCAA. Russians and Belorussians can't be drafted in the European draft right now.

Right now the Canadians that go the USHL/BCJHL route to get to the NCAA are those that feel they need the college backup in case their NHL aspirations are derailed. I used to work with a father whose son went the NCAA route because his kid probably wouldn't make the NHL, and he didn't.
- wizardofi

This will be a lazy post but things are changing and Celebrini is not an outlier of the very best Canadian kids choosing the USHL-NCAA path, Wizard.

In the last 5 yrs Power (went 1st overall), Fantilli (3rd overall) and Celebrini (1st overall) all went the USHL route. In fact they all played for The Mighty Steel........ These top Canadian kids are showing (paving the path) younger top talent that the NCAA path is real and a really good one.

Why? could be all of 100 reasons and that's the point for me. No matter the reason I want as many options for a kid to find a fit and for whatever reason top Canadian talent, some not all, but it's not an outlier anymore, is going the USHL-NCAA route.

And one reason is NCAA hockey is better than Major Junior IMO.

I think your scouting report said he could fly? Something changed or he isn't as fast as you thought he was?
- BetweenTheDots

Here's what is up on Lines.com by me:

Big-bodied centre-wing with a strong all-around game and a strong hockey IQ. A month older than Bedard, the Slovakia centre is a dynamic skater with terrific balance and acceleration, and will blow by defenders and make plays while in full flight. A big time shooter with a rocket of a wrister and pro release that we on display while he dominated Swedish Junior. Already has a good lower body core with room for muscle. For those thinking he is a consolation prize in the Bedard draft derby, it should be noted that he has been a dominant offensive player since he was 15 years of age, playing in men's senior leagues. Displays superb offensive instincts and already has lower body core strength with room for more muscle. He is equally adept as a playmaker and shooter, it might be his shooting that elevates his stature dues due to high excellent hand / eye co-ordination, and vision. He has a big time release attached to his one timer. Was buried on the 4th line in the World Junior U-20, but that doesn't disguise the fact that he can simply blow by defenders and make plays in full flight, and has off the charts offensive instincts. He might not have big time explosiveness but his stride still brings strong up-ice push. He runs the power play from the half wall and attacks with bullet passes through the box.

(You frightened me that I had someone else's profile in for him, but alas, no "he can fly" in mine.)

https://www.moosejawtoday.com/hockey/artyom-levshunovs-journey-to-nhl-draft-has-him-projected-as-a-top-five-pick-9147523

"Artyom Levshunov hoped to play juniors in the Canadian Hockey League, knowing it could lead to his dreams of becoming a professional hockey player.

However, because of CHL rules restricting Belarussians and Russians from competing because of the war in Ukraine, he had no other choice but to go the USHL and U.S. college route, if he wanted to develop his game in North America."
- wizardofi

Again Wizard, a kid who has zero interest in school has options even if it is playing a yr or two in school. More options for a kid the better. ............ And, as a USHL guy I always hated the NHL-CHL Agreement and called it The Indentured Servitude Clause.

But, as I followed and studied up on the agreement over the yrs and reasons for it (in a nutshell to keep the largest feeder of the NHL, the 60 team CHL, solvent) I have become maybe even sympathetic to the CHL.. They are in a tough spot losing top talent to the NCAA and the Agreement is a big reason why.

Not sure if it's quite a watershed time for the CHL but it seems they have to adjust to the times either tweaking the rules or dealing with a portion of top Canadian talent going USHL.

Here's what is up on Lines.com by me:

Big-bodied centre-wing with a strong all-around game and a strong hockey IQ. A month older than Bedard, the Slovakia centre is a dynamic skater with terrific balance and acceleration, and will blow by defenders and make plays while in full flight. A big time shooter with a rocket of a wrister and pro release that we on display while he dominated Swedish Junior. Already has a good lower body core with room for muscle. For those thinking he is a consolation prize in the Bedard draft derby, it should be noted that he has been a dominant offensive player since he was 15 years of age, playing in men's senior leagues. Displays superb offensive instincts and already has lower body core strength with room for more muscle. He is equally adept as a playmaker and shooter, it might be his shooting that elevates his stature dues due to high excellent hand / eye co-ordination, and vision. He has a big time release attached to his one timer. Was buried on the 4th line in the World Junior U-20, but that doesn't disguise the fact that he can simply blow by defenders and make plays in full flight, and has off the charts offensive instincts. He might not have big time explosiveness but his stride still brings strong up-ice push. He runs the power play from the half wall and attacks with bullet passes through the box.

(You frightened me that I had someone else's profile in for him, but alas, no "he can fly" in mine.)
- wiz1901

Oh okay so i just misunderstood the previous post.

Not sure if anyone mentioned it before, but Marcel Marcel signed another AHL contract.

Maybe playing with Savoie again will get him going?

While Dachs injury was a setback, you'll never convince me, nor will I be able to prove it, but that best thing for him would've been to go to Rockford for at least a year. I would even argue going back to jrs for a year, and Rockford for a year and he would be a different player.
- vabeachbear

Remember Dach's rookie yr? I wondered to myself what does this kid think about, have to grab on to, away from the rink, on his ride home? Kid is 30% at the dot, caved on fancies, basically nothing goes good for the kid cuz besides his size he's waaaay overmatched in the NHL.

Then a chance to play WJC. Hell yea you send a kid who literally nothing has gone right for for months has a chance to play vs his peers and have some success. ...Then be busts his wrist.

Like you I can't prove staying in jrs would have made a difference but I don't think it's a thing that has to be proven. Kid is eons short of where he should be at this time in the process. ..... Sure, it can be debated I guess but to me it's wasting time and effort.

Remember Dach's rookie yr? I wondered to myself what does this kid think about, have to grab on to, away from the rink, on his ride home? Kid is 30% at the dot, caved on fancies, basically nothing goes good for the kid cuz besides his size he's waaaay overmatched in the NHL.

Then a chance to play WJC. Hell yea you send a kid who literally nothing has gone right for for months has a chance to play vs his peers and have some success. ...Then be busts his wrist.

Like you I can't prove staying in jrs would have made a difference but I don't think it's a thing that has to be proven. Kid is eons short of where he should be at this time in the process. ..... Sure, it can be debated I guess but to me it's wasting time and effort.
- Mr Ricochet

Didn't Seabrook take Dach under his wing, and had him living with his family? I don't think he could of learned from a better pro

Again Wizard, a kid who has zero interest in school has options even if it is playing a yr or two in school. More options for a kid the better. ............ And, as a USHL guy I always hated the NHL-CHL Agreement and called it The Indentured Servitude Clause.

But, as I followed and studied up on the agreement over the yrs and reasons for it (in a nutshell to keep the largest feeder of the NHL, the 60 team CHL, solvent) I have become maybe even sympathetic to the CHL.. They are in a tough spot losing top talent to the NCAA and the Agreement is a big reason why.

Not sure if it's quite a watershed time for the CHL but it seems they have to adjust to the times either tweaking the rules or dealing with a portion of top Canadian talent going USHL.
- Mr Ricochet

Agree Rico. I totally understand why the agreement has been in place, as you mentioned, the CHL is the biggest feeder to the NHL(up to now) and they need the talent to survive, just tweak the agreement somehow, no need to remove altogether. I’m moving on, not meaning to tick off our north of the border friends, but times change.

We'll agree to disagree, I just know if it was me, and my kid had a good chance of playing in the NHL, I'd go the USHL and College route to give me the most flexibility when the decision time comes.

Other factors like NIL money would come into play, but I would want the most flexibility i could get to leave all my options open.

CHL doesn't give me flexibility. Obviously all options when you are good get you to the NHL so not saying CHL is wrong, in fact I would argue that getting rid of that rule would make CHL the best route
- vabeachbear

The only thing that is keeping the CHL/NHL rule in place is that the NCAA won't accept CHL players. If the NCAA would accept players from the CHL, the CHL/NHL rule would have to change. Right now there is no reason to change it.

Remember Dach's rookie yr? I wondered to myself what does this kid think about, have to grab on to, away from the rink, on his ride home? Kid is 30% at the dot, caved on fancies, basically nothing goes good for the kid cuz besides his size he's waaaay overmatched in the NHL.

Then a chance to play WJC. Hell yea you send a kid who literally nothing has gone right for for months has a chance to play vs his peers and have some success. ...Then be busts his wrist.

Like you I can't prove staying in jrs would have made a difference but I don't think it's a thing that has to be proven. Kid is eons short of where he should be at this time in the process. ..... Sure, it can be debated I guess but to me it's wasting time and effort.
- Mr Ricochet

Maybe the question is "where should he be?". Found this on Dobber:

https://dobberprospects.c...ect-deep-dive-kirby-dach/

Good skater, but takes a little while to change directions. Good shot, but needs to use it more. Inconsistent defensively (despite being labeled a two-way center), Good passer based more on IQ than any unreal passing ability.

I kinda lean towards Fatty's description that he's a good complimentary piece, but not one to drag you to success. I think 22-23 is about what you expect from him if healthy. About a 55 point pace, and should be a bit better defensively.

Not for nothing, but I think if he can replicate what he did last year the Hawks have a shorter version of the same guy in Kurashev - and you might get Shev at a lower overall cost since he is more wing than center.

I agree VB, except I would alter the CHL ruling, I would not get rid of it altogether. Maybe each team can use the AHL for one 18/19 year old player every two or three years, something like that, a little compromise. Of the top 50 picks over the last two NHL drafts (2022/23) twenty-four are currently playing collegiately, so I’m going to respectfully disagree with wizardofi on his assessment of NCAA players drafted. There are three things for sure in life, death, taxes, and change.
- Angotti

Right on, Lou. Times are changing and the top feeder to the NHL, the CHL, will change with the times to some degree. .......... And yea, the numbers are there to see just how many kids are getting drafted outa the NCAA and it ain't just 3rd liners anymore, it's #1 overalls taking that path.

Maybe the question is "where should he be?". Found this on Dobber:

https://dobberprospects.c...ect-deep-dive-kirby-dach/

Good skater, but takes a little while to change directions. Good shot, but needs to use it more. Inconsistent defensively (despite being labeled a two-way center), Good passer based more on IQ than any unreal passing ability.

I kinda lean towards Fatty's description that he's a good complimentary piece, but not one to drag you to success. I think 22-23 is about what you expect from him if healthy. About a 55 point pace, and should be a bit better defensively.

Not for nothing, but I think if he can replicate what he did last year the Hawks have a shorter version of the same guy in Kurashev - and you might get Shev at a lower overall cost since he is more wing than center.
- Chunk

Chunk, I was ok with the Dach pick. The comp I had for him when they drafted him was NSH's Johansen. Big dude, balanced skater, 200 ft guy, 55ish pts. Not a centerpiece but a legit NHL 2C with size......... I still feel that way but he's far behind that and in fact ain't even playing center, MTL has him at wing.

Right on, Lou. Times are changing and the top feeder to the NHL, the CHL, will change with the times to some degree. .......... And yea, the numbers are there to see just how many kids are getting drafted outa the NCAA and it ain't just 3rd liners anymore, it's #1 overalls taking that path.
- Mr Ricochet

And there are going to be more Div 1 hockey programs. ASU is relatively new, USC, UCLA, and the Univ. of Washington are all looking to start Div 1 hockey as they move into the big 10.

Chunk, I was ok with the Dach pick. The comp I had for him when they drafted him was NSH's Johansen. Big dude, balanced skater, 200 ft guy, 55ish pts. Not a centerpiece but a legit NHL 2C with size......... I still feel that way but he's far behind that and in fact ain't even playing center, MTL has him at wing.
- Mr Ricochet

I wonder if they did a redraft today of the 2019 draft, if Vlasic would of been a top 10/15 pick? He definitely would of been a first rounder.

Chunk, I was ok with the Dach pick. The comp I had for him when they drafted him was NSH's Johansen. Big dude, balanced skater, 200 ft guy, 55ish pts. Not a centerpiece but a legit NHL 2C with size......... I still feel that way but he's far behind that and in fact ain't even playing center, MTL has him at wing.
- Mr Ricochet

So he was supposed to be a Richard with a bad moustache?

I think he basically is that player you describe if he's not hurt and you put half way decent players around him. I thought I read that they were planning on him playing center this year as long as he is healthy. His biggest issue, I think, is that he can't stay on the ice.

I was fine with the pick at the time as well. he was injured a lot and not put into the best situation, so here is where he is.

Speaking of KKs athleticism, wonder how athletic Spellacy is considering he got a few football scholarships and models his game after Tom Wilson? Won't that be fun if he can develop his game.
- BetweenTheDots

I've got a good feel about Spellacy. I give a lotta attention to anyone that might become a rare power forward in the Bigs, but Spellacy especially so....... Any kid who plays OHL, and does it well, with only 2 previous yrs of any hockey is really interesting.

Then the kid says he digs Tom Wilson and I gotta check myself.