believe what you want to believe .. I watched the clip where he said this and Jones was clearly joking. I think the entire comment got blown eway out of proportion, but for those like you that just want to shout "A-ha!" it was gasoline on the fire.
- jd250

Not that i agree with everything in this article but :

https://www.crossingbroad...for-this-flyers-team.html

Jonesy confirmed to me directly that the message to the players is to ignore what it said publicly. That as employees of the Philadelphia Flyers their job is to work as hard as possible every day to compete as hard as they can and to believe in what the organization is doing and to contend for a playoff berth and see what happens from there.

of course elsewhere in the article :

The players certainly know it. They don’t need to be given some higher-level directive from the President of Hockey Operations.

The truest thing in the article :

So why say anything at all?

It’s really a larger level messaging thing. An optics thing. It works well with the “New Era of Orange” re-brand. Last year they told everyone it was an “aggressive retool,” which didn’t really land. So you wipe the Chuck Fletcher slate clean and use the word “rebuilding” and it works as an admission of sorts that they’re flipping the page and starting anew, with a new regime. The messaging made a lot of people feel better, so it made sense to do it. It doesn’t really matter what the players were told behind the scenes, because they’re not gonna dog it anyway. They’re playing to win, or earn that next contract.

And that's as far the rebuild goes. Tell people what they want to hear to feel better and do what you were going to do anyway.

Not that i agree with everything in this article but :

https://www.crossingbroad...for-this-flyers-team.html

Jonesy confirmed to me directly that the message to the players is to ignore what it said publicly. That as employees of the Philadelphia Flyers their job is to work as hard as possible every day to compete as hard as they can and to believe in what the organization is doing and to contend for a playoff berth and see what happens from there.

of course elsewhere in the article :

The players certainly know it. They don’t need to be given some higher-level directive from the President of Hockey Operations.

The truest thing in the article :

So why say anything at all?

It’s really a larger level messaging thing. An optics thing. It works well with the “New Era of Orange” re-brand. Last year they told everyone it was an “aggressive retool,” which didn’t really land. So you wipe the Chuck Fletcher slate clean and use the word “rebuilding” and it works as an admission of sorts that they’re flipping the page and starting anew, with a new regime. The messaging made a lot of people feel better, so it made sense to do it. It doesn’t really matter what the players were told behind the scenes, because they’re not gonna dog it anyway. They’re playing to win, or earn that next contract.

And that's as far the rebuild goes. Tell people what they want to hear to feel better and do what you were going to do anyway.
- Flyers_01

a 1 foot in the pool rebuilding approach is sure to work.

I pray to God they extend Laughton. Can that be done in January 2025? Or have to wait until the season is over?

They will be a lottery team no doubt. They are worse in terms of talent than last year. They might score more goals than last year but they will also give up a good bit more.

I agree that I want to see more action this offseason. TK and Laughton specifically.
- mickel25

I don’t see how they are markedly worse than last year by adding Michkov and subtracting Atkinson.

OK, agree to disagree. Its a different era with social media and the way the internet works. Definitely not illogical to see it playing out differently in 2024 as opposed to what happened during the Lindros era. And be that as it may, plenty turned on Lindros and still hate him to this day.


And as I said, that is what I believe the Flyers thought. You think they thought differently.
- MBFlyerfan

I don’t see how they are markedly worse than last year by adding Michkov and subtracting Atkinson.
- psuhockey

They are subtracting the starting goalie, the backup goalie (who is now the starter by default), Walker was arguably the best d-man last year. We are relying on JD getting better and staying healthy. We are relying on Risto playing above a 3rd pair level. Can Seeler play at a 2nd pair level without Walker. I do not think so. Nothing in the AHL that you can rely on just yet on the defensive front.

We can assume the PK will be worse with the lesser goaltending and defense. They should score more but how much? Certainly not enough to level out the dropoff in the areas I listed. They will be a bottom 10 team this year.

OK, agree to disagree. Its a different era with social media and the way the internet works. Definitely not illogical to see it playing out differently in 2024 as opposed to what happened during the Lindros era. And be that as it may, plenty turned on Lindros and still hate him to this day.


And as I said, that is what I believe the Flyers thought. You think they thought differently.
- MBFlyerfan

That’s what you believe the flyers believe? Really? You’ve been duped. They played on things like you gave examples for. Different time. Social media etc etc. that’s logical for you to believe them at face value. I understand


Now for the fun part… here’s how you know they are lying pieces of poop and trash. How do you react to situations where you have concern? What’s an appropriate response? Sympathy? Empathy? Isn’t that the words they said meant to evoke? “We were worried for the player once word got out how the fans would react”


But now look at what they actually did. What were their actions? How did they present the situation? With sympathy? Empathy? As if you BELIEVE them would be what’s expected.

Nope complete visceral is would they did. They ripped this kid to pieces. Ripped his character. “”IF HE DONT WANT TO BE HER WE DONT WANT HIM!!!” They marched one after the other from top to bottom out on stage to rip cutter to pieces as a unified group driving it into fans heads just how much “concern” they had for the player.

They are scum for what they did and you have been duped but it’s ok. Once you think about it you will change your mind. And not believe them or use the excuse like they did. Call a spade a spade.


Would you react the way you did for someone you are “concerned “ about? Would you rip that person by all means that you could to as many people as you could? Or would you show sympathy and empathy for the person you were concerned about?


ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

RIP former phantom Tony Voce.

I don’t see how they are markedly worse than last year by adding Michkov and subtracting Atkinson.
- psuhockey

https://www.statmuse.com/...phia-flyers-16/stats/2024

Also, barring injuries, they have an entire year of Drysdale plus the younger guys have another year of experience. Goalie stats and PP were already worst in the league, the things that they were really bad at can't get much worse can they?

I don't know. It seems that expectations are artificially lowered so that no matter what happens leadership gets credit for getting more out of the team than expected.

This team is not a bottom 5-6 team as constructed. There are teams that are actually trying to rebuild who have torn their teams down to the studs to get that elite talent that will lose more games. The crazy thing is even those teams have better goaltending and PP than the Flyers.

I don’t see how they are markedly worse than last year by adding Michkov and subtracting Atkinson.
- psuhockey

other teams will be better. You can make a case goal tending is worse off, and the team as a whole overachieved.

https://www.statmuse.com/...phia-flyers-16/stats/2024

Also, barring injuries, they have an entire year of Drysdale plus the younger guys have another year of experience. Goalie stats and PP were already worst in the league, the things that they were really bad at can't get much worse can they?

I don't know. It seems that expectations are artificially lowered so that no matter what happens leadership gets credit for getting more out of the team than expected.

This team is not a bottom 5-6 team as constructed. There are teams that are actually trying to rebuild who have torn their teams down to the studs to get that elite talent that will lose more games. The crazy thing is even those teams have better goaltending and PP than the Flyers.
- Flyers_01

They are a bottom 10 team though. They got worse in goal and on D unless multiple players take steps forward. They did not get better at center. They added Michkov and hope the young players continue to improve. PP will be better but is that an accomplishment? PK will undoubtedly be worse.

That’s what you believe the flyers believe? Really? You’ve been duped. They played on things like you gave examples for. Different time. Social media etc etc. that’s logical for you to believe them at face value. I understand


Now for the fun part… here’s how you know they are lying pieces of poop and trash. How do you react to situations where you have concern? What’s an appropriate response? Sympathy? Empathy? Isn’t that the words they said meant to evoke? “We were worried for the player once word got out how the fans would react”


But now look at what they actually did. What were their actions? How did they present the situation? With sympathy? Empathy? As if you BELIEVE them would be what’s expected.

Nope complete visceral is would they did. They ripped this kid to pieces. Ripped his character. “”IF HE DONT WANT TO BE HER WE DONT WANT HIM!!!” They marched one after the other from top to bottom out on stage to rip cutter to pieces as a unified group driving it into fans heads just how much “concern” they had for the player.

They are scum for what they did and you have been duped but it’s ok. Once you think about it you will change your mind. And not believe them or use the excuse like they did. Call a spade a spade.


Would you react the way you did for someone you are “concerned “ about? Would you rip that person by all means that you could to as many people as you could? Or would you show sympathy and empathy for the person you were concerned about?


ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.
- Stayin alive

You're badly confusing things here. Briere all but admitted to not being truthful to the media on why they didn't state anything was wrong. He stated that he did so in order to protect the kid, in case he remained a Flyer. MB wasn't duped at all and he knows exactly what went on.

https://www.statmuse.com/...phia-flyers-16/stats/2024

Also, barring injuries, they have an entire year of Drysdale plus the younger guys have another year of experience. Goalie stats and PP were already worst in the league, the things that they were really bad at can't get much worse can they?

I don't know. It seems that expectations are artificially lowered so that no matter what happens leadership gets credit for getting more out of the team than expected.

This team is not a bottom 5-6 team as constructed. There are teams that are actually trying to rebuild who have torn their teams down to the studs to get that elite talent that will lose more games. The crazy thing is even those teams have better goaltending and PP than the Flyers.
- Flyers_01

really hope the PP shows zero improvement just to see if they do anything.

You conveniently left out the part that Cutter was in college and had he waited the 4 years (only 2 more after this year) he was a free agent and the Flyers would only get a 2nd round comp pick loosing him that way. So no Flyers not in “complete control” of situations long term. And that was the risk DB was not willing to take, I agree with him.
- emcane

I didn’t conviently leave out anything. NO TOP PROSPECT IS SPENDING 4 years in college putting off elc and risking injury and lost wages. They all want the elc to atart as fast as possible to burn through elc and make big money

I didn’t conviently leave out anything. NO TOP PROSPECT IS SPENDING 4 years in college putting off elc and risking injury and lost wages. They all want the elc to atart as fast as possible to burn through elc and make big money
- Stayin alive

fox and hayes did no? though I get your point.

flyers rushed into trading him.

fox and hayes did no? though I get your point.

flyers rushed into trading him.
- hello it's me 2050

The guys that stay are very rare or late bloomers. Hayes had broken his leg or something and was close to not playing hockey again. They certainly rushed the cutter situation and handled it poorly

That’s what you believe the flyers believe? Really? You’ve been duped. They played on things like you gave examples for. Different time. Social media etc etc. that’s logical for you to believe them at face value. I understand


Now for the fun part… here’s how you know they are lying pieces of poop and trash. How do you react to situations where you have concern? What’s an appropriate response? Sympathy? Empathy? Isn’t that the words they said meant to evoke? “We were worried for the player once word got out how the fans would react”


But now look at what they actually did. What were their actions? How did they present the situation? With sympathy? Empathy? As if you BELIEVE them would be what’s expected.

Nope complete visceral is would they did. They ripped this kid to pieces. Ripped his character. “”IF HE DONT WANT TO BE HER WE DONT WANT HIM!!!” They marched one after the other from top to bottom out on stage to rip cutter to pieces as a unified group driving it into fans heads just how much “concern” they had for the player.

They are scum for what they did and you have been duped but it’s ok. Once you think about it you will change your mind. And not believe them or use the excuse like they did. Call a spade a spade.


Would you react the way you did for someone you are “concerned “ about? Would you rip that person by all means that you could to as many people as you could? Or would you show sympathy and empathy for the person you were concerned about?


ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.
- Stayin alive

But none of that happened until after they traded him. UP until that point they were protecting the kid in case he changed his mind. That is just good business. Again, agree to disagree.

Of course it did. I agree with how you characterize their reaction for the most part but there was no way that the Flyers were going to call his bluff and let him sit in college for 4 years. They don't exercise patience in anything. Saying it had nothing to do with their unwillingness to take that chance is simply not accurate.
- MJL

There would’ve never been a bluff to call. Patience doesn’t even factor in (although I totally agree they never are patient) because as you yourself stated top prospects want to sign elc as soon as possible. There was no risk at all. None zero.

Once you come to the understanding (as you have) that no top prospects is going to wait 4 years when every top prospect wants to sign elc as soon as possible all the other excuses or scenarios go out the window. Simple as that.
Priority one for top prospect sign the elc and burn 1st year as soon as possible. No top prospect or agent is gonna let ANYTHING get in the way of that. Nothing.

I don’t see how they are markedly worse than last year by adding Michkov and subtracting Atkinson.
- psuhockey

They also lost Hart and Walker. Do you think Fedotov will be as good as Hart was?

Hart - 25 starts at .906

Ersson - 49 starts at .890

https://www.statmuse.com/...phia-flyers-16/stats/2024

Also, barring injuries, they have an entire year of Drysdale plus the younger guys have another year of experience. Goalie stats and PP were already worst in the league, the things that they were really bad at can't get much worse can they?
- Flyers_01

The PK SV% was 5th highest in the league.

https://www.naturalstattr...all&loc=B&gpf=410&fd=&td=

There would’ve never been a bluff to call. Patience doesn’t even factor in (although I totally agree they never are patient) because as you yourself stated top prospects want to sign elc as soon as possible. There was no risk at all. None zero.


- Stayin alive

That's wrong on a number of levels. There was a bluff and the Flyers were unwilling to call it or remain patient. There certainly was some risk

Once you come to the understanding (as you have) that no top prospects is going to wait 4 years when every top prospect wants to sign elc as soon as possible all the other excuses or scenarios go out the window. Simple as that.
Priority one for top prospect sign the elc and burn 1st year as soon as possible. No top prospect or agent is gonna let ANYTHING get in the way of that. Nothing.
- Stayin alive

I certainly lean towards agreeing with the idea that I don't think Gauthier would've been willing to sit out for all 4 years. He obviously was willing to go back for another year and put off his priority. He was willing to turn down a contract that the Flyers offered in May of 23 for the 23/24 season. So despite that priority, he did not sign the contract. That top prospect DID let something get in the way of that. That's a fact.

I agree with you on a lot of areas in this but you're getting yourself in a lot of trouble by continuing to tell others, who are right about what they're saying, that they have been duped, etc

They also lost Hart and Walker. Do you think Fedotov will be as good as Hart was?

Hart - 25 starts at .906

Ersson - 49 starts at .890
- Feanor

The real issue with the goaltending is that they got competent NHL level goaltending when Hart/Ersson were the tandem. They got drastically less than that after Hart left.

I didn’t conviently leave out anything. NO TOP PROSPECT IS SPENDING 4 years in college putting off elc and risking injury and lost wages. They all want the elc to atart as fast as possible to burn through elc and make big money
- Stayin alive

I think the last one to do it was

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/blake-wheeler

https://bleacherreport.co...heeler-says-no-to-gretzky

https://www.statmuse.com/...phia-flyers-16/stats/2024

Also, barring injuries, they have an entire year of Drysdale plus the younger guys have another year of experience. Goalie stats and PP were already worst in the league, the things that they were really bad at can't get much worse can they?

I don't know. It seems that expectations are artificially lowered so that no matter what happens leadership gets credit for getting more out of the team than expected.

This team is not a bottom 5-6 team as constructed. There are teams that are actually trying to rebuild who have torn their teams down to the studs to get that elite talent that will lose more games. The crazy thing is even those teams have better goaltending and PP than the Flyers.
- Flyers_01

Those teams you speak are likely just coming out of stage 1 or 2 of rebuild. Testing it down. Getting high end talent but still bad. Just tearing it down and getting players like bedard/celebrini is t the end of rebuild.

You're badly confusing things here. Briere all but admitted to not being truthful to the media on why they didn't state anything was wrong. He stated that he did so in order to protect the kid, in case he remained a Flyer. MB wasn't duped at all and he knows exactly what went on.
- MJL

What the (frank) you even talking about. I’m not nor ever said anything about BEFORE the trade was announced. I agree it would make no sense to say anything as they were figuring out what’s going on. That totally unbeatable and no gm would or should say anything at that stage.

I specifically said what they did when announcing the trade. Yes mb was duped. And you continue to try to defend your position which is also wrong.

I’m not confusing nor ever tried to evade the scenario that played out. They ripped the player the same damn day the trade came out. Pr damage control.


I also have admitted that even myself fell for it at first. I was pissed. But after calming done and over the next few days as story began to come out and reflecting I quickly realized what was happening. That’s what critical thinking people do. Question everything. But even we are prone to knee jerk reactions like I said and admitted I myself was guilty of. Had me hook line sinker for a few days. But after few days watching the poop played over and over and the boasting bravado of “he doesn’t want to be here we don’t want him” narrative something was clearly wrong.

But none of that happened until after they traded him. UP until that point they were protecting the kid in case he changed his mind. That is just good business. Again, agree to disagree.
- MBFlyerfan

Oh. Gotcha so they were only concerned about the kid until they traded him. Gotcha. Then (frank) him even though it was their decision to trade him solely. Gotcha. Hopefully we can all have people so concerned about us that would act that way