It's great that many people are passionate about hockey like me, so much love and passion is expressed anytime, anywhere. Speaking of enthusiasm and passion, does anyone like playing retro bowl online games like me? It brings excitement like playing real sports. This game is very addictive because it's so good. Do you dare to try to play it?

Letting Connor Brown sign in WSH after 2021-2022 was acceptable. He was -15. Nick Paul is an entire different story, I agree. I will touch on this below. Sanford brought some toughness but was not a big loss. The problem (I agree) is Sens didn't replace or rebuild their bottom 6. I agree with that. The chemistry and lack of defensive structure, and INJURIES, off ice issues all created the perfect storm of problems. Formenton off ice, Pinto gambling was a stupid and BIG mistake.

Trading Nick Paul - Perfect 3rd line two-way center - was a big error in judgement. Also we brought a player in who I like (Joseph) but horrible move. Paul just scored 24 goals & 46 points this year, has scored huge goals in the playoffs, and what we should've done is signed 6 years @3.5-3.75M

Drafting Logan Brown, Colin White was bad enough but taking Lassi Thomson at 19th overall, Tyler Boucher at 10th overall, and then not turning Erik Brannstrom into anything is just poor asset management and failed prospects that were desperately needed for depth in this organization.

Then trading a 7th overall pick for Alex DeBrincat. I was wrong - he isn't a 40 goal scorer. But just like with Chychrun, you traded away a 12th overall pick, you were again 2 years after from UFA so you couldn't sign him. Trading those high picks is just HORRIBLE. What should've happened: Make the picks (D Kevin Korchinski & LW Zachary Benson)

Dorion never solved the goaltending problem. Trading a young Filip Gustavsson was a stupid mistake.

Letting Connor Brown sign in WSH after 2021-2022 was acceptable. He was -15. Nick Paul is an entire different story, I agree. I will touch on this below. Sanford brought some toughness but was not a big loss. The problem (I agree) is Sens didn't replace or rebuild their bottom 6. I agree with that. The chemistry and lack of defensive structure, and INJURIES, off ice issues all created the perfect storm of problems. Formenton off ice, Pinto gambling was a stupid and BIG mistake.

Trading Nick Paul - Perfect 3rd line two-way center - was a big error in judgement. Also we brought a player in who I like (Joseph) but horrible move. Paul just scored 24 goals & 46 points this year, has scored huge goals in the playoffs, and what we should've done is signed 6 years @3.5-3.75M

Drafting Logan Brown, Colin White was bad enough but taking Lassi Thomson at 19th overall, Tyler Boucher at 10th overall, and then not turning Erik Brannstrom into anything is just poor asset management and failed prospects that were desperately needed for depth in this organization.

Then trading a 7th overall pick for Alex DeBrincat. I was wrong - he isn't a 40 goal scorer. But just like with Chychrun, you traded away a 12th overall pick, you were again 2 years after from UFA so you couldn't sign him. Trading those high picks is just HORRIBLE. What should've happened: Make the picks (D Kevin Korchinski & LW Zachary Benson)

Dorion never solved the goaltending problem. Trading a young Filip Gustavsson was a stupid mistake.
- AlfieisKing

Time will tell on Gus. His numbers fell off a cliff last season.

Hindsight is a wonderful place to throw shade from.

I agree with most of the moves/analysis above. But at the time....we kinda raved about a lot of them.

I think the best GM's (and kinda like those people you work with) who can see what's coming around the corner.....AND plan for it. Those people are invaluable. Dorion's failure was his inability to see and plan for the future well enough. None of us can completely tell the future. But some things are just obvious. ie Matt Murray....dad passing, mentally not all there, some concussion concerns....and why WHY would the Penguins so eagerly dump a two time cup winner. (head scratcher.....nope lets get him!)

JBD and a 2nd for Kakko?

JBD and a 2nd for McGortay?

JBD and a 2nd for Askarov?

SOMETHING??? Dog days are here, lol.

Letting Connor Brown sign in WSH after 2021-2022 was acceptable. He was -15. Nick Paul is an entire different story, I agree. I will touch on this below. Sanford brought some toughness but was not a big loss. The problem (I agree) is Sens didn't replace or rebuild their bottom 6. I agree with that. The chemistry and lack of defensive structure, and INJURIES, off ice issues all created the perfect storm of problems. Formenton off ice, Pinto gambling was a stupid and BIG mistake.

Trading Nick Paul - Perfect 3rd line two-way center - was a big error in judgement. Also we brought a player in who I like (Joseph) but horrible move. Paul just scored 24 goals & 46 points this year, has scored huge goals in the playoffs, and what we should've done is signed 6 years @3.5-3.75M

Drafting Logan Brown, Colin White was bad enough but taking Lassi Thomson at 19th overall, Tyler Boucher at 10th overall, and then not turning Erik Brannstrom into anything is just poor asset management and failed prospects that were desperately needed for depth in this organization.

Then trading a 7th overall pick for Alex DeBrincat. I was wrong - he isn't a 40 goal scorer. But just like with Chychrun, you traded away a 12th overall pick, you were again 2 years after from UFA so you couldn't sign him. Trading those high picks is just HORRIBLE. What should've happened: Make the picks (D Kevin Korchinski & LW Zachary Benson)

Dorion never solved the goaltending problem. Trading a young Filip Gustavsson was a stupid mistake.
- AlfieisKing

That Nick Paul trade still chafes my butt. There were less than a half million apart on a 3 or 4 yr deal. Dorion trades him out of spite? Principal?

That Nick Paul trade still chafes my butt. There were less than a half million apart on a 3 or 4 yr deal. Dorion trades him out of spite? Principal?
- GrimmdaGoalie

I may be off in my memory but I thought both the Paul and Connor Brown decisions were about Melnyk making grandstand objections and pronouncements. I believe the loss of Nick Paul was especially damaging. Nobody should ever give up a big body that can play an elite defensive game and fill in with some offensive upside as well.

IMO, the whole issue with Dorion was that he was essentially out there alone on his little island (with Melnyk). Making decisions basically on his own without voices around him questioning his moves. With Staois .... he has Poulin and Bowness and others (scouts) that he listens to before making decisions. I think that this can help lessen the degree of errors or bad trades. Back in Dorion's days, Dorion was too insecure to take other's advice. He basically/seemingly blocked out and fired any dissenting voices.
I realize that you can have a good GM who never really played the game beyond a certain level, but in the case of Dorion, I believe it was because of this lack of playing any sort of high end hockey that he failed to grasp the concept of a team that plays like a team. Yes, he can judge good talent, but could not put it all together into a cohesive team. As a minor league scout .. he has excellent credentials, but I think as a GM he was over his head. As he got further and further away from the Murray era, the team declined as he failed to grasp the intracacies of proper team building.
I believe that Staois has the proper qualities of a GM and seemingly (so far) can play well with others. I feel more confident with his and his management team's decisions. While we may not be playoff bound this year, I believe we can be close if the coaching staff can get this team playing a proper defensive structure. The drafting record of Dorion is at best sort of sketchy with some abject failures (Boucher, Brown, and trading away 2 first round picks) .... it will take time to fill those holes and develop more talent. But I think the group is largely in place to do this.

Apparently Pinto confirmed he was suspended for Proxy betting, and having friend place bets for him on his account in the US when he was in Canada.

That Nick Paul trade still chafes my butt. There were less than a half million apart on a 3 or 4 yr deal. Dorion trades him out of spite? Principal?
- GrimmdaGoalie

I dunno. For all this vaunted talk about his defensive acumen, Paul was weak in his own end last year in addition to underperforming the first year of his contract. Let's see him repeat numbers from last year before lighting torches. Tampa's system is also quite well known for taking middling, cost controlled players and maxing out their talent,.which Ottawa certainly is not. It'd be a wash if Staios hadn't felt compelled to pay a third to offload Joseph, IMO completely unnecessary given we added a perplexingly old player in Perron on a multi year deal for 1M more in his place. Because Staios paid that third the deal looks infinitely worse, and that's on him, not Joseph. Also lest we forget - we did draft Blake Montgomery with Tampa's 4th from the Joseph trade. All to say, that move pales in comparison in terms of badness to Staios' return on Chychrun.

Hindsight is a wonderful place to throw shade from.

I agree with most of the moves/analysis above. But at the time....we kinda raved about a lot of them.

I think the best GM's (and kinda like those people you work with) who can see what's coming around the corner.....AND plan for it. Those people are invaluable. Dorion's failure was his inability to see and plan for the future well enough. None of us can completely tell the future. But some things are just obvious. ie Matt Murray....dad passing, mentally not all there, some concussion concerns....and why WHY would the Penguins so eagerly dump a two time cup winner. (head scratcher.....nope lets get him!)
- Octavarium

Hindsight is always easier, but at the same time I think it's important to differentiate criticism around a specific transaction vs. not having an overall vision for the team. People get quite upset about the Paul trade, but the details may have been more complicated than it appears. I didn't even mind Joseph as a return, but at the end of the day they also lost Brown/Formenton in that off-season and did virtually nothing to mitigate that combined roster loss. Even more ridiculous was putting Joseph into a position to score 12pts/11GP and then overpay him on a long-term contract instead of just giving him a 1yr deal to prove his full-season value. Had they just let him play a 3rd line role for those 11GP, they probably could have saved themselves at least $1M AAV, and he's probably still on the roster now.

So the solution didn't have to be Brown/Paul on long-term deals, but it should have been more of a clear team priority to replace the qualities those players brought to the roster vs. adding a one-dimensional offensive player like DeBrincat at the worst possible time in his RFA contract status. This is where I give Staios credit - he's certainly been 100% on target to upgrade the Senators' team defence, and he's now got a #1G, a defensive Top-4 RHD, and at least 3 new Bottom-6 forwards to help the team be more competitive and successful when their young stars aren't on the ice.

I may be off in my memory but I thought both the Paul and Connor Brown decisions were about Melnyk making grandstand objections and pronouncements. I believe the loss of Nick Paul was especially damaging. Nobody should ever give up a big body that can play an elite defensive game and fill in with some offensive upside as well.
- spatso

100% agree.

How much Dorion was affected by Melynk, we may never know

So.

Yes. Kuznetzov appears to be going home.

What does undconditional waivers mean for the rest of the league.

Could the Sens put in a claim on the player?

So.

Yes. Kuznetzov appears to be going home.

What does undconditional waivers mean for the rest of the league.

Could the Sens put in a claim on the player?
- Octavarium

Josh Norris and Thomas Chabot make about 20M next season.......

Getting them to 2021-22 level is make or break for this team

^ My point above is that I like you putting the idea out there, but having chabot and norris at 16M of cap space, these 2 got to put up or shut up

^ My point above is that I like you putting the idea out there, but having chabot and norris at 16M of cap space, these 2 got to put up or shut up
- AlfieisKing

I'm less worried about Chabot... he's settled into a ~50Pts scoring pace over the past 4 seasons, but that still puts him in the top-25 in the NHL. Even if he should be scoring more, playing 23min/GP also provides a lot of value. He's also an established leader on the team, which they'll need in the coming year. Hopefully getting a bit more PP time and giving him a quality defensive-minded partner will allow him to open his game up a bit more.

It's Norris they need to focus on, especially since they've elapsed the timeframe for a 1/3 buyout. Move him permanently to the #2LW spot, and let Pinto handle the #2C role - including the vast majority of the faceoff work. The last major Norris injury may not have been specifically faceoff-related, but taking >500 faceoffs/year with that shoulder is just a recipe for long-term disaster. Just keep him lined up with Batherson, let him be the primary shooter on his ES line, and give him the one-timer spot on a PP line.

I'm less worried about Chabot... he's settled into a ~50Pts scoring pace over the past 4 seasons, but that still puts him in the top-25 in the NHL. Even if he should be scoring more, playing 23min/GP also provides a lot of value. He's also an established leader on the team, which they'll need in the coming year. Hopefully getting a bit more PP time and giving him a quality defensive-minded partner will allow him to open his game up a bit more.

It's Norris they need to focus on, especially since they've elapsed the timeframe for a 1/3 buyout. Move him permanently to the #2LW spot, and let Pinto handle the #2C role - including the vast majority of the faceoff work. The last major Norris injury may not have been specifically faceoff-related, but taking >500 faceoffs/year with that shoulder is just a recipe for long-term disaster. Just keep him lined up with Batherson, let him be the primary shooter on his ES line, and give him the one-timer spot on a PP line.
- khawk

I am not really concerned about Norris this season. He has had 2 years of arrested development. I would contemplate sending him to Belleville for a 10 game conditioning stint to start the season. However, I am not sure that is a possibility. But otherwise, I would start Norris out on the 3rd line wing with Greig. Let Norris build and earn his place on the top 2 lines.

As for not being eligible now for the 1/3 buyout ...... I doubt that the Sens even remotely thought about this avenue. You don't just give up on a player like this and trade him at the point of lowest worth. You want to see what you have and how to further develop the player.

I am not really concerned about Norris this season. He has had 2 years of arrested development. I would contemplate sending him to Belleville for a 10 game conditioning stint to start the season. However, I am not sure that is a possibility. But otherwise, I would start Norris out on the 3rd line wing with Greig. Let Norris build and earn his place on the top 2 lines.

As for not being eligible now for the 1/3 buyout ...... I doubt that the Sens even remotely thought about this avenue. You don't just give up on a player like this and trade him at the point of lowest worth. You want to see what you have and how to further develop the player.
- OttawaB

Had they bought him out, it's not like they'd have been giving up on him at the first sign of trouble... there have been three major shoulder injuries in less than 2 years, which have kept him out of the lineup for 106/164 games. He also went through a span of 20GP last year where he scored just 1 goal, which is more than a bit concerning given that he only played 50GP in total. You shouldn't have to "see what you have" or "develop the player" when you're on a $7.95M x 8yrs contract. Norris is what he is, and right now the most that can be reasonably expected is to play maybe 60GP and score in the 20G/20A range as a 2nd/3rd line winger. And even that would be dependent on him being healthier than he has been in over 2 years, and being 100% ready for the start of the season.

Had they bought him out, it's not like they'd have been giving up on him at the first sign of trouble... there have been three major shoulder injuries in less than 2 years, which have kept him out of the lineup for 106/164 games. He also went through a span of 20GP last year where he scored just 1 goal, which is more than a bit concerning given that he only played 50GP in total. You shouldn't have to "see what you have" or "develop the player" when you're on a $7.95M x 8yrs contract. Norris is what he is, and right now the most that can be reasonably expected is to play maybe 60GP and score in the 20G/20A range as a 2nd/3rd line winger. And even that would be dependent on him being healthier than he has been in over 2 years, and being 100% ready for the start of the season.
- khawk

You are probably right.

But, Norris has a great release and sets up well on the power play. He can score and does get streaky and could go on a run.

I wonder, are there players who started their career with multiple season ending injuries but they finally cam back and finish off with a successful career?

You are probably right.

But, Norris has a great release and sets up well on the power play. He can score and does get streaky and could go on a run.

I wonder, are there players who started their career with multiple season ending injuries but they finally cam back and finish off with a successful career?
- spatso

Mike Fisher suffered a season ending knee injury in Dec. of his rookie year. There are others as well.

But asking an owner to pay to buyout a player is asking a lot .... hey, let's just throw a few million away and pay someone not to play for us for another 12 years , paying him until 2036. The owner doesn't become a billionaire by throwing around his money on a whim. You keep the player, rehab him, let him get back to playing condition and then you can think of trading and getting a return while dumping the salary. And if the player can't return and gets reinjured, you throw him to Robidas Island/LTIR and let insurance pay the player and the team gets cap relief. Buying out players on long term contracts is a horrible way of asset management.

That would be like you owning a house you paid $1 million for. But for some reason the house is only worth $800,000. So we recommend you sell the house for $800 and carry the extra $200 in a loan for the next 15 years. None of us would do this, so why would we expect an owner to do this?

Mike Fisher suffered a season ending knee injury in Dec. of his rookie year. There are others as well.

But asking an owner to pay to buyout a player is asking a lot .... hey, let's just throw a few million away and pay someone not to play for us for another 12 years , paying him until 2036. The owner doesn't become a billionaire by throwing around his money on a whim. You keep the player, rehab him, let him get back to playing condition and then you can think of trading and getting a return while dumping the salary. And if the player can't return and gets reinjured, you throw him to Robidas Island/LTIR and let insurance pay the player and the team gets cap relief. Buying out players on long term contracts is a horrible way of asset management.

That would be like you owning a house you paid $1 million for. But for some reason the house is only worth $800,000. So we recommend you sell the house for $800 and carry the extra $200 in a loan for the next 15 years. None of us would do this, so why would we expect an owner to do this?
- OttawaB

A player having one major injury "at some point early in their career" is in no way the same as a player suffering 3 major injuries to same part of their body within 2 years. Downplaying the severity of these injuries is a serious misread of the situation. Not to mention that a billionaire would know better than most that sometimes you have to cut your losses. And spending $17M over 12 years to buy a player out is hardly a whim, when the alternative is spending $52M over 6 years for very inconsistent value. Now, I've made it clear before that I thought the team would try to make the best of the situation... but it's quite possible that a buyout was never even possible given that Norris was on LTIR to end the season. As such, Norris' contract may be the one Dorion-era mistake that Staios will never be able to effectively move on from.

I'm less worried about Chabot... he's settled into a ~50Pts scoring pace over the past 4 seasons, but that still puts him in the top-25 in the NHL. Even if he should be scoring more, playing 23min/GP also provides a lot of value. He's also an established leader on the team, which they'll need in the coming year. Hopefully getting a bit more PP time and giving him a quality defensive-minded partner will allow him to open his game up a bit more.

It's Norris they need to focus on, especially since they've elapsed the timeframe for a 1/3 buyout. Move him permanently to the #2LW spot, and let Pinto handle the #2C role - including the vast majority of the faceoff work. The last major Norris injury may not have been specifically faceoff-related, but taking >500 faceoffs/year with that shoulder is just a recipe for long-term disaster. Just keep him lined up with Batherson, let him be the primary shooter on his ES line, and give him the one-timer spot on a PP line.
- khawk

I agree with you but I think Chabot is considered a leader. The problem is when you have leaders that are not actually the best on your team (or at least have the respect level of one). I like Chabby but he is a Luigi not a Mario - he is a Robin not a Batman. He should not have a "A" on his chest. It should be Tkachuk (C) Giroux (A) Perron (A). That's it. Those 3 players deserve the respect and will be the best leaders in the room and I think everyone would agree with this.

With Norris - I agree 100% and I hate to say it but these injuries are quite significant. The good news is that he played 50 games last year but he still missed 32! I don't see him playing 70+ games a season and I hope I'm wrong about.

Question for fans, which season you prefer for Josh Norris?

A) 52 games played, 28 goals, 53 points (injury but over PPG)
B) 70 games played, 26 goals, 55 points
C) 80 games played, 25 goals, 50 points

Damn, I feel so safe on this board with all the doctors chiming in on the significance of the Norris injury. Of course, they are forgetting that they have no significant updates on the injury or the rehab. I'm sure that Andlauer and Staios et al know exactly what is going on with Norris ... and none of you have a clue what is going on. You're just playing a doctor on the daily Senator hockey thread. I have no clue where things stand as well. But I also realize that you can't buy-out a player on LTIR. So it is all a moot point anyways. I also believe that Ottawa has no players in arbitration so they will also not get another buyout window. But I do think that they had absolutely no intention or thought of buying out Norris. He simply has too much potential to simply buyout and release to the market.

Most games played in the NHL without playoffs:

1. Jeff Skinner - 1006
2. Rasmus Ristolainen - 713
3. Zemgus Girgensons, - 688
4. Brady Tkachuk - 440 (franchise record)
5. Rasmus Dahlin - 436
6. Thomas Chabot - 432

---------------
Other Sens

Artem Zub - 250
Josh Norris - 183

*These guys need to see the playoffs or be out of it at the very end only

Most games played in the NHL without playoffs:

1. Jeff Skinner - 1006
2. Rasmus Ristolainen - 713
3. Zemgus Girgensons, - 688
4. Brady Tkachuk - 440 (franchise record)
5. Rasmus Dahlin - 436
6. Thomas Chabot - 432

---------------
Other Sens

Artem Zub - 250
Josh Norris - 183

*These guys need to see the playoffs or be out of it at the very end only

- AlfieisKing

Bit strange to have overlooked Batherson (309) and Stutzle (285)... but it certainly illustrates how many games Norris has lost to injury. In fact, despite just coming off their ELC this year, Sanderson (156) and Pinto (140) have nearly caught up in terms of career GP. Notably, pretty much everyone else on the list (in the top-10) plays or played for Buffalo. Basically, the Atlantic Division has been dominated for a long time by 3 teams, who have either won or appeared in the Stanley Cup Finals in each of the last 6 years. They've also each won a President's Trophy in the same timeframe. Then you also have the Maple Leafs winning a lot of regular season games as well. So it's been an unusually hard division, in fairness to both BUF/OTT.