So he gets no credit for drafting Saad, TT or Shaw, or trading for Oduya, Zus, Vermette, Desjardins or Leddy, signing guys like Rozy, Richards, Emery or Scott Darling. No credit then for 2013 or 2015 either huh?

No offense Scott but yours is also a very popular opinion albeit a bit of a shortsighted one. You're a big trade guy. Just curious if you were one of the people screaming for Bowman's head on here along with JJ and others, demanding Bowman trade anyone not named Toews after first round exits from the playoffs in '11 and '12?
- HawkintheD

Also signed Bickell to a lot of money that clearly wasn't of appropriate value when you looked at his career and then had to use TT to give him away.

The two seconds for Timonen was a head scratcher. I think he gave away a second for Rundblad lol.

Obviously drafting Debrincat was good even though he was a lil guy who should have gone earlier.

The complete body of work is not great and while they won 3 cups it probably could have been 5 if some of the really bad misses were even halved.

He got too enthralled with the Keith Oduya type and not enough with the Seabrook type.
- rpeters01

That's not 100% accurate if you look at the actual draft history.

The first two cups are Tallons achievements the third cup I ll give to bowman.
- Scott1977

The first is definitely Tallon but give credit to Bowman too. Many times a GM comes in and makes a move to put his stamp on it. Bowman was smart enough and didn’t need to boost his ego and left the team as is.

The second was Bowman. He had to negotiate salary issues caused by Tallon’s (frank) up. He was able to make the right moves to win two more.

I know people don’t like Bowman for whatever reasons but I’m not sure the Hawks win three cups without him. I doubt Tallon would have been able to put the right the pieces together to negotiate the cap problems.

Had to pay them. If they had Danault to take over the 2 C \ Dungeon shifts to help out Toews that is a huge difference there.

Extending AA straight away was pretty dumb.

Losing two Saad trades was hilarious.

They weren't terrible at drafting forwards they just sucked at drafting D and their professional scouting was abhorrent. Had less to do with Smurfs and more of making bad decisions. Fournier, Dahlstrom, Knott, Dalhbeck, Paliotta, Holl, Johns, Olsen, Gilbert - were all 3rd round or sooner and over 6ft and projected at over 200 lbs. And none of them worked out.

Perhaps they had some turnover somewhere because they have done better with Vlasic, EDM, Kaiser and Philips.

Whoever thought that Weise and Fleishman would be helpful contributors was clearly a moron.

Bringing Ladd back was not smart.

The Seabrook deal a year before it was even due was also not smart business.

Certainly they missed on Boqvist and they missed on Dach which should have been a reload. Bouchard or Dobson should have been taken there as a Seabrook replacement and that is one that everyone except Bowman and co agreed on. Zegras, Cozens or Caulfield would have been better there. Oops.

And then they got desperate and went hard after Jones.

Either way it was a lot of trash where it seemed like they thought they were smarter than everyone else when that couldn't have been further from the truth. Having some early trades pay off like the Nick Leddy deal probably didn't help the egos in the room.

The Penguins paying Crosby and Malkin were still able to make a second run. The Lightning have been relevant for a long time with some big money on the books. Certainly Vegas has been relevant and they are a cap team every year. The Panthers are probably going to take a dip but I think they were smart to let some guys on the wrong side of 30 like Montour walk even though still a very effective player. Gotta be a little ruthless.

Point being - a good GM will ruthlessly manage the cap and not keep guys around just because they played well with the club through their prime and certainly won't constantly reach because they think theyre smarter then everyone else.
- fattybeef

It's apples to oranges though and it just seems to be what many here don't care to acknowledge. You pay for winning. The Pens had won one Cup and it was several years in the rearview before those subsequent deals were penned. TBL had won nothing and had the advantage of no state tax in FL.

Hindsight is a great lens to have but at the time who would you have cut after winning the Cup in 2013? 2015? At the time and not in hindsight.

Like I said before, most here wanted to trade everyone not named Toews after 1st round exits in 2011 and 2012. I bought into JJ's crap about trading Kane for Rick Nash cause Kane wasn't a guy built for the playoffs. You can all be glad me and pretty much all of you weren't GM at the time.

I agree that Stanbo needed to be more ruthless but how much of that was McDonough pulling the strings in the background saying "no way do you break up the band"? You don't know and neither do I so again apples to oranges comparisons but that seems to be what most of y'all want to make.

The first is definitely Tallon but give credit to Bowman too. Many times a GM comes in and makes a move to put his stamp on it. Bowman was smart enough and didn’t need to boost his ego and left the team as is.

The second was Bowman. He had to negotiate salary issues caused by Tallon’s (frank) up. He was able to make the right moves to win two more.

I know people don’t like Bowman for whatever reasons but I’m not sure the Hawks win three cups without him. I doubt Tallon would have been able to put the right the pieces together to negotiate the cap problems.
- paulr

How about how Stan kept Keith’s snd Hossa’s cap hit artificially low by signing them to 12 and 15 year deals. Ended up the new collective bargaining agreement in 13 koutlawed that contract, snd they introduced the cap recapture. What would Keith snd Hossa’s cap hit be if they only see allowed 7 or 8 year deals? How many more players would have had to be jettisoned?

Also signed Bickell to a lot of money that clearly wasn't of appropriate value when you looked at his career and then had to use TT to give him away.

The two seconds for Timonen was a head scratcher. I think he gave away a second for Rundblad lol.

Obviously drafting Debrincat was good even though he was a lil guy who should have gone earlier.

The complete body of work is not great and while they won 3 cups it probably could have been 5 if some of the really bad misses were even halved.
- fattybeef

In the Cap era? Take a breath Fatty and not out of your NO2 tank.

Bowman went to Russia to recruit Panarin in person. Was the only GM to do it.
- wizardofi

The way i remember it they went to scout someone else and little all Arty caught their eyes.

Pretty much it in a nutshell.

He gets credit for two more Cup wins that I guarantee you all the posters who tend to complain about his tenure are the same people who figured they were a one hit wonder and dead in the water after 2010.

He gets the blame for seemingly not having a real vision after 2015 and trying to squeeze blood from a turnip for a couple more seasons when they should've been retooling.

All that said, I still look at his tenure as a largely successful one. I mean FFS name a a more successful period in Hawk history. Was it all him? No, but he certainly deserves more credit than some will give.

When I see some of the mopey poop I read here, it makes me wonder how or if some of you were able to enjoy the lead up to any of the Cup wins; or was it the final 30 seconds of those seasons, the Cup presentation, the parade and the rest was just absolute anxiety.
- HawkintheD

Thank you for your perspective which I totally agree. Ok will just point out, how much did head scout Mark Kelly influence both Dach and Boqvist drafted? The idea was right both drafts but the end result was not the player they envisioned

They wanted an offensive dman who was good offensively because someone had to eventually replace Keith. They needed a center to replace Toews even if Dach was viewed more as a complimentary # 2 Line center. They saw size, defensive presence, moderate scorer. Dach must didn’t work out in Chicago but who knows if he remained here whether he stays healthy

Wiz knows how they were thinking

I’m confused(shocker), what GM trades away any of the core after five conference finals and three cups in seven years? I know I wouldn’t have. He paid them for their contributions to the best run in Hawks history, I’ll take that over paying big money to high scoring forwards that can’t win anything, see Leafs, Toronto. If I’m not mistaken, the Wings held on too long as well, now the Penguins are following suit, that’s just the nature of the beast.

I’m confused(shocker), what GM trades away any of the core after five conference finals and three cups in seven years? I know I wouldn’t have. He paid them for their contributions to the best run in Hawks history, I’ll take that over paying big money to high scoring forwards that can’t win anything, see Leafs, Toronto. If I’m not mistaken, the Wings held on too long as well, now the Penguins are following suit, that’s just the nature of the beast.
- Angotti

Agreed. You just don't pull a Krause and the Bulls.

Resigning Panarin likely meant you'd have had to trade Kane.
- HawkintheD

You may be right... But take away any single trade or signing and that's still a long list of talent going away with nothing to show for it.

I still don't understand how he got Tallon to take the fall for his goofing up on the QOs in 2010 and got a head GM job out of it to boot!

When Sharp was on the market, the story goes someone called Stan, offered up a trade and wanted a yes or no now. Stan didn't commit because he needed to consult Scotty and the trade didn't happen. I don't know if it was the long rumored 2 2nd round picks for Sharp.
- boilermaker100

I love a good Urban Myth

You may be right... But take away any single trade or signing and that's still a long list of talent going away with nothing to show for it.

I still don't understand how he got Tallon to take the fall for his goofing up on the QOs in 2010 and got a head GM job out of it to boot!
- busmaster

Ultimately doesn't that fall on the GM? Maybe we should be looking to shift blame for any perceived bad trades during Stan's Reign of Terror to Norm Maciver.

I love a good Urban Myth

- vabeachbear

But I read it here from a poster many years ago. It must be true

But I read it here from a poster many years ago. It must be true


- boilermaker100

Pretty sure that one was a homespun JJ rumor; and his batting average on trade "rumors" was maybe a thousandth percentage point above Ek's.

But hey...he heard things.

Pretty sure that one was a homespun JJ rumor; and his batting average on trade "rumors" was maybe a thousandth percentage point above Ek's.

But hey...he heard things.
- HawkintheD

Rumour has it JJ got lots of rumours from unnamed sources and “Bob”.

Rumour has it JJ got lots of rumours from unnamed sources and “Bob”.
- paulr

Bob had some good "rumors". The funny thing is, the Andrew Ladd one actually happened.

Bob had some good "rumors". The funny thing is, the Andrew Ladd one actually happened.
- HawkintheD

That belongs to the broken clock or blind squirrel, me thinks.

Pretty sure that one was a homespun JJ rumor; and his batting average on trade "rumors" was maybe a thousandth percentage point above Ek's.

But hey...he heard things.
- HawkintheD

I think it was from that Mexico Hawk guy.

So how many Cups did Tallon win with the Panthers? How about these doozies of contracts (Bobrovsky $10 mil. AAV). , Yandle, Demers, Stralman, Bolland, Collony.

Drafted Eric Gudbranson 3 rd overall in 2010.

Gave away basically Vinny Troczek, partially because the Panthers were in cap trouble, before having to give Barkov his money.

Took Zito to clean up Talllon’s mess. So if you think Tallon would of navigated the Hawks better than Bowman did, history tells a different story.

So how many Cups did Talkon win with the Panthers? How about these doozies of contracts (Bobrovsky $10 mil. AAV). , Yandle, Demers, Stralman, Bolland, Collony.

Drafted Eric Gudbranson 3 rd overall in 2010.

Gave away basically Vinny Troczek, partially because the Panthers were in cap trouble, before having to give Barkov his money.

Took Zito to clean up Talllon’s mess. So if you think Tallon would of navigated the Hawks better than Bowman did, history tells a different story.
- LAHawk

Come on LA. You know you aren't allowed to look at the entire picture. "I don't like this guy, so pretty much everything he did was wrong. If he had hindsight like I do, he should have made all the trades and signings that I wanted."

https://x.com/yyzsportsme...WyaoLNziT1ygSOlDXUpw&s=19

Marek out at sportsnet
Does that mean 32 thoughts is done as a podcast?

Come on LA. You know you aren't allowed to look at the entire picture. "I don't like this guy, so pretty much everything he did was wrong. If he had hindsight like I do, he should have made all the trades and signings that I wanted."
- Chunk

I made two lists for you. The first are all the GMs who never made a mistake. The second all the GMs who won three cups but didn’t have a clue what they were doing and were dumb as (frank) to boot.

GMs who never made a mistake.

1.
2.
3.


GMs who won three cups but didn’t have a clue what they were doing and were dumb as (frank) to boot.

1. Stan
2.
3.

I made two lists for you. The first are all the GMs who never made a mistake. The second all the GMs who won three cups but didn’t have a clue what they were doing and were dumb as (frank) to boot.

GMs who never made a mistake.

1.
2.
3.


GMs who won three cups but didn’t have a clue what they were doing and were dumb as (frank) to boot.

1. Stan
2.
3.
- paulr

How about the GM's people seem to love who haven't won a single cup as the actual GM:
1) Yzerman
2) Poile
3) Blake

It's almost as if different team situations (young vs veteran, cap vs internal cap, open window vs closed or closing) may require different strategies.

How about the GM's people seem to love who haven't won a single cup as the actual GM:
1) Yzerman
2) Poile
3) Blake

It's almost as if different team situations (young vs veteran, cap vs internal cap, open window vs closed or closing) may require different strategies.
- Chunk

Everyone has an opinion, unfortunately it’s not always based on fact but instead on bias, hate, hearsay and sometimes hope. Look at KFC, some have him pegged as the greatest GM ever to GM when he really hasn’t accomplished anything yet, then you have those who’ve written him off before he’s actually done anything. I don’t get the Yzerman love? And some posters will step in front of a bullet for Tallon who never won anything while he was the GM. And I get Bowman made some bad moves and made few good draft selections, but he was GM during the best decade in Blackhawk history and some fans can’t look past him trading Panarin, who was a cap casualty. I don’t get it?