Wish I had one so I could wear it while learning the bass line for Making It Work by Doug and the Slugs
- Dozzer

You don't know it already?!

Welp, at Marner's age, Pat Kane was still considered Jonathan Toews' sidekick.
- prock

That he was.

Pretty much all of hockey knew that.

I clearly made the mistake of thinking Prock listed the team he cheers for in his profile info.

For whom does Prock cheer for?
For whom does the bell toll?
- Cush29

Each man’s death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.

I wonder Sid said. I mean he would've been asked, too.

Probably said something like, "He's good. It's been fun."

Connor McDavid works out with Matthews. You think they haven't been asked about each other? The answers are bland enough that you never hear them.

Ryan O'Rielly went out of his way to talk about how he tried to encourage his GM to trade for Marner.

There's enough there that you can't dismiss it as idle chatter or media training.
- Monkeypunk

Agree to disagree I guess eh. I just don’t think a classy player like Nate or basically any other player around the league would chirp or give an underwhelming: ‘I dunno he’s ok I guess’ when asked about a teammate or someone they train with and frankly even an opponent. You just don’t do that….like my Reaves example. 34, Willy, mitchy, JT, Mo they all went out their way to praise his presence in the ice in the room and the impact he makes when on the ice from a space and accountability point of view. So sign Reaves to an extension?

Wish I had one so I could wear it while learning the bass line for Making It Work by Doug and the Slugs
- Dozzer

Have you seen this?

https://www.cbc.ca/docume...doug-and-the-slugs-and-me



Sad and wonderful.

Actually wait, have you checked for your missing track suit in the basement beer fridge behind the lasagna?

Go Leafs Go
- Zezel

I'm breaking up with you.

Agree to disagree I guess eh. I just don’t think a classy player like Nate or basically any other player around the league would chirp or give an underwhelming: ‘I dunno he’s ok I guess’ when asked about a teammate or someone they train with and frankly even an opponent. You just don’t do that….like my Reaves example. 34, Willy, mitchy, JT, Mo they all went out their way to praise his presence in the ice in the room and the impact he makes when on the ice from a space and accountability point of view. So sign Reaves to an extension?
- Big23Questions

Ok - but I mean we hear that stuff all the time, "He's a good player." They don't need to effuse about it. As I said, you hear about what McDavid or Matthews say about each other - there's mutual respect but it's not particularly effusive.

When it comes to people who give media friendly playbook answers, it's what people say that they don't need to say. Most of these guys have no need to pump Mitch's tires. But a lot of them do.

Cush, if it was one player it's easy to dismiss. When it's a collection of highly competitive, highly respected leaders who all want a player like Marner on their team? There's a pattern that's foolish to ignore.

And it's not just this year when suddenly the Leaf "faithful" have decided Marner is the whipping boy. Guys have been propping up Marner for years because he is that good.

Look I've said this before and I don't know why I'm repeating it because you feel the way you do and I feel the way I do, but when you want to shut down Toronto, who do you need to focus on? Who is the guy getting worked, getting double-teamed when he has the puck? It's not Matthews - who is our best player - it's Marner because he is the stick that stirs the drink. I do think last year he wasn't as mobile and it showed. And to be fair he seemed slower all year, so it is a concern to me -but . . .

Keefe did an abysmal job of finding ways to make room for him - and I've said before and whether you believe it or not, I'll say it again - Chicago made room for Patrick Kane. Kane didn't magically overpower other guys being 5'10 and 180 - he had guys running picks and creating lanes for him - something Keefe has not done a good job of in Toronto at all. I am sincerely hoping that Craig Berube finds some guys to help give Marner some space to operate. 'Cos it's not Matthews being parked in a soft spot waiting for a pass and it hasn't been Bertuzzi or Bunting - who were both busy falling down behind the net. Who is helping the puck carrier to move with the puck and find an opening? I hope this year we see a guy like Knies doing it. And if he can then I think Marner gets the chance to show us all who he is.
- Monkeypunk

Is it shocking to hear any star player say they would 'love' to play with a guy like Marner? No it's not - players say this stuff all the time about other star players from other teams, it certainly doesn't mean fans of the Leafs should just shut up and not criticize Marner's lack of ability to be the player he is most of the regular season come playoffs. I'm not dismissing it, I'm putting it into the pile of 'poop players say that is just cliche and the same poop they always say that doesn't mean much and/or is painfully obvious". I would bet MacKinnon was asked about it and thought "poop i didn't want to say anything" and then went into auto mode - load typical every NHL player response, hit play and his mouth opened and out it came.

Sure teams zero in on Marner, it's proven to be an effective method to shut him down year after year. To say the lack of success is because the Leafs haven't insulated him or surrounded him with the right players is a bit naïve in my opinion.

Comparing Kane to Marner is also not what I'd call a fair comparison - Kane is MUCH MUCH more of a scoring threat than Marner has been yet in his career and may ever be.

Marner is a pretty pure set up man, Kane was an excellent set up man AND scorer - he was a threat to shoot and score and as such created room because of that. Sure I don't disagree the surrounding cast Kane had vs Marner may have been better suited to give him more space but he also created alot of it himself and never seemed to do anything but elevate his game come playoffs.

Chicago also had a much better balanced team - cap distribution wise. Having Duncan Keith, Seabrook, Monster Buff and good to very good goaltending as a result of that. This is my main point - the Leafs need this vs a Matthews, Marner, Willy, JT cash dump, even removing JT's $'s now doesn't solve the issue as Willy is due to make way more than he should, Marner is going to want more etc.

I don't know if Marner just has so much pressure (media, fans and self imposed) that the task at hand seems to get more and more impossible come playoffs but something is going on between his ears - he's far too different a player regular season vs playoffs for it all to be put on the opposition changing how they play him.

I don't think Matthews needs Marner to the degree some folks seem to believe.
Matthews is a pure goal scoring machine with a very very good and continuing trend towards being in the conversation of league leading defensive games (from a forward). I think he definitely benefits from Marner's playmaking as does any player playing with someone who has that skill set but I really do think Matthews sans Marner doesn't result in a huge drop off from Matthews game.

I hear you blaming the coach and saying those who criticize Marner are wrong or possibly wrong because other star players say Marner is great but (and FWIW I'm not trying to be an a-hole here) how much of the blame for Marner's playoff performances ( is the fault of Mitch Marner?

And please don't quote me his playoff point totals - we all know that's not what the issue here is it's game 7 no shows, puck over the glass, soft plays and those things that occur every year.

I don't for one minute believe his failures are due to a lack of wanting success or caring enough, but something is broken there IMO and to hope Berube can find people to fix Marner seems a bit odd considering he's being paid nearly 11M and is going to want what 13 on his next deal? He needs to fix what is broken, he is the 11M dollar man now at 27, time to earn that money if you want that +++ IMO.

Like I said earlier to Prock it won't matter in all likelihood, they will re-up all these guys and keep trying to get them to click and have some unexpected young / cheap guys get them to the next level.

Here is to hoping they do it.

I'm breaking up with you.
- Atomic Wedgie

Oh Wedgie, oh, don't, don't

Unless you're a malcontent, nobody says anything about players these days. People gripe about contracts and all this other poop. The players and agents are all in it to win it for themselves. The more players get the more other players get. You set the market. How many players say "Oh (frank), this guy we invited to our camp was like, maybe 5th best?" I dunno, he should eat more kale pasta."

As I've tried to explain, yes, you are. You're wrong because the idea that a big change will somehow push this team over the top is flawed. The vast majority of times, it makes the team worse. You make major changes when you're giving up and rebuilding. You tweak when you have a collection of elite players.

As I said, most cup winners have had their core together for many years, and build on that. Colorado didn't trade Mackinnon or Landeskog when they were near the bottom, they built on that, and added.

Elite players are hard to acquire. you don't throw them away, you add to them.
- prock

Agree to disagree.

You listed 2 core player from the Avs - I'm looking at at team with what 4 that are forwards? I never said to blow it up and go scorched earth, a big move woudl have been to move out one of the huge salaries - AM, MM, WN (I'd say JT but he was essentially not moveable and now it's irrelevant) and when I say make a big move I still mean move AM (but don't because he should never be moved), MM or WN.

This core HAS been together for many years, they have one playoff series win. I was one of the most patient people on here for years, my patience is nearly gone it's time to try something new IMO.

It's not a flawed move IMO it's the right move but i understand you feel it's flawed - may I ask you how long you think they should wait until they make a major move?

Elite players are insanely hard to get, that's why when you have a bunch of them who are all forwards but you need some defensive ones you may have to swap elite for elite or elite for space, money and a chance to go get a new elite player in an area of need.

I never said to 'throw them away' in reference to Elite players, not once have I ever said that nor do I believe it however you also shouldn't just bend over and pay them whatever they want when they haven't delivered - that's just piss poor management.

Are you of the opinion that teams should always draft the best / most skilled player and not draft for what the organization sees as an area they need to be better, have more depth at? I believe this was the Kyle Dubas approach and it simply didn't work. I agreed with it at the time, rallied behind it and even pseudo defended it but I just can't anymore. NEW GM, NEW COACH should = NEW APPROACH - at least to me.

You don't know it already?!
- Zezel

lol it didn’t take long to learn the song, pretty sure I had it down before it finished playing once lol

Hakanpaa signed

https://x.com/MapleLeafs/...MBEPG4h59p_CRFCVvNbA&s=19

1 x 1.47m

Hakanpaa signed

https://x.com/MapleLeafs/...MBEPG4h59p_CRFCVvNbA&s=19

1 x 1.47m
- Fakepartofme

For 1.47M that's a gamble worth taking IMO.

Sadly for him timing is everything and I imagine he will be referred to here and many other places as Hawk-Tuah. lol

lol it didn’t take long to learn the song, pretty sure I had it down before it finished playing once lol
- Dozzer

Lol

Hakanpaa signed

https://x.com/MapleLeafs/...MBEPG4h59p_CRFCVvNbA&s=19

1 x 1.47m
- Fakepartofme

Love it. Low risk signing, and hopefully will pair nicely with one of our more offensive D-men.

Love it. Low risk signing, and hopefully will pair nicely with one of our more offensive D-men.
- Whipper

Im assuming hes a depth 5-7 dman

Hakanpaa signed

https://x.com/MapleLeafs/...MBEPG4h59p_CRFCVvNbA&s=19

1 x 1.47m
- Fakepartofme

So was it injury as the hold up or Robertson's deal for the cap space as the hold up, I wonder???

Im assuming hes a depth 5-7 dman
- Fakepartofme

Depending on his partner he could be a decent 4 but he will probably 5-6 on the Leafs.

Personally I see him with OEL on the bottom pairing.

Berube won't like Lily too much, not enough offense for a defenseman that isn't good defensively, I think he might be traded to help the 2LW/3C hole.

So was it injury as the hold up or Robertson's deal for the cap space as the hold up, I wonder???
- underhill14

Not sure, but i believe they have to move out some cap.

Of course bowden gets his no hitter ruined with a game tying homerun in the 9th.

So close.

Im assuming hes a depth 5-7 dman
- Fakepartofme

Tanev played 19:13/game and he played 18:39. Does he or Lilli play with OEL?

Hakanpaa signed

https://x.com/MapleLeafs/...MBEPG4h59p_CRFCVvNbA&s=19

1 x 1.47m
- Fakepartofme

Well, I guess the leafs trust his health, but not enough to give him two years, fair enough. I wonder who gets dropped to make room for him, they’ll need a million

Patches is one hard check away from a motorized wheelchair.

Pass.
- GalacticStone

You are completely forgetting Max "Wolverine" Paccioretty's incredible powers of recovery.

Depending on his partner he could be a decent 4 but he will probably 5-6 on the Leafs.

Personally I see him with OEL on the bottom pairing.

Berube won't like Lily too much, not enough offense for a defenseman that isn't good defensively, I think he might be traded to help the 2LW/3C hole.
- underhill14

This is now my guess

Rielly Tanev
OEL McCabe
Benoit/Liljegren/Hakanpaa