I thought all the experts here said they need to give him a longer look 😂

Flyers poor development strikes again!
- anti-lame

Ronnie Attard has been poop since the first long look.

It is true. Who was he going to beat out on the right side ? Sanheim? Seeler? Risto?
- furio16

You spelt Drysdale wrong.

You say that, but there are some who are going to vote for Kamala anyway
- Glak18

Nice

Nice
- WhiskeyMan

Again, you're showing that you're uninformed. His turnover rate is good. Whether you want to believe the facts or not. So since you said a player better be useful elsewhere. Let's look at some other data. Last season among all Flyers forwards, filtered for 200 to take small sample players out of the picture. Frost was first on the team in assists/60 with 1.5. First in first assists per 60 with 1.12. 4th in total points per 60 with 2.19.


On the PP, among all Flyers forwards, filtered for 40 minutes, Frost was first on the team in assists per 60 at 2.57 (Next closest was Laughton at 2.17) In first assists, Frost was at 1.61 (Laughton next closest at 1.61) In total points per 60 on the PP, Frost was at 3.54 (Laughton was the next closest at 2.71)

Some other numbers. At 5 on 5. Frost was 6th in CF% at 51.35. At goals for %, Frost was first on the team at 56.25%. Defensively, at goals against per 60, Frost was 2nd on the team at 1.91.

So as you can see. Frost was the best Flyers forward on the PP and one of the best defensive forwards on the team. When he was on the ice, the Flyers scored 56% of the goals at 5 on 5.

If you want to look at a traditional number. Frost was tied for first with Konecny among all Flyers forwards in +/- at a +4.

I keep waiting for you to provide something, anything factual to support your opinion that Frost is dumb as a box of rocks.

You harping on his turnovers, which he does a low rate, is simply not valid.
- MJL

Yes the powerplay as bad as it was, he had 8 assists, but you are forgetting how many assists came from him winning the draw, center generally gather more points.

For the rest of the stats kinda pointless to read, he was 5th in scoring and only 3 points more then our 3rd line center.
Statistics can be very misleading sometimes, 8 get why you refer to them.

But ill rather use the eye test and say he has skill but tends to play cute and it's very costly.

He is soft on the puck and I understand lots of players are.

Definitely in my opinion he is mediocre 🤷


Could he become a lot better sure he does have the tools, but I dought it

Yes the powerplay as bad as it was, he had 8 assists, but you are forgetting how many assists came from him winning the draw, center generally gather more points.

For the rest of the stats kinda pointless to read, he was 5th in scoring and only 3 points more then our 3rd line center.
Statistics can be very misleading sometimes, 8 get why you refer to them.

But ill rather use the eye test and say he has skill but tends to play cute and it's very costly.

He is soft on the puck and I understand lots of players are.

Definitely in my opinion he is mediocre 🤷


Could he become a lot better sure he does have the tools, but I dought it
- SlNlSTER

You're bias has become exposed. You're opinion is not supported by the facts and your comments are to be blunt, unintelligent.

I'm forgetting how many assists have come from winning the draw? Really? LOL. How about you provide the factual information and provide that data?

The factual data shows that your eye test is faulty and that you don't know what you're looking at. You're now at the point where you're just making it up and sticking to you bias that is unsupported by the facts.

I'll reiterate that if you want to criticize Frost for not scoring enough points and that he needs to increase his scoring, I'm with you on that. He needs to put up points more consistently.

Other than that, the rest of your comments are just pure BS and not supported by the facts. If that insults you, so be it.

Speaking of doubting it. I seriously doubt that you can articulate why or how the stats are misleading.

You're bias has become exposed. You're opinion is not supported by the facts and your comments are to be blunt, unintelligent.

I'm forgetting how many assists have come from winning the draw? Really? LOL. How about you provide the factual information and provide that data?

The factual data shows that your eye test is faulty and that you don't know what you're looking at. You're now at the point where you're just making it up and sticking to you bias that is unsupported by the facts.

I'll reiterate that if you want to criticize Frost for not scoring enough points and that he needs to increase his scoring, I'm with you on that. He needs to put up points more consistently.

Other than that, the rest of your comments are just pure BS and not supported by the facts. If that insults you, so be it.

Speaking of doubting it. I seriously doubt that you can articulate why or how the stats are misleading.
- MJL

Ok no need to get mad.

First center do gather more points, obviously that's on any team, granted it's the harder position to play.

You maybe have a hard time understanding what you ate watching

Ok no need to get mad.

First center do gather more points, obviously that's on any team, granted it's the harder position to play.

You maybe have a hard time understanding what you ate watching
- SlNlSTER

What makes you think I'm mad. I think I proved who is actually dumber than a box of rocks. The factual data supports what I claim to have watched. The factual data shows that what you think you're watching, is simply not the case. There is no rhetoric that you can post that will change that fact.

What makes you think I'm mad. I think I proved who is actually dumber than a box of rocks. The factual data supports what I claim to have watched. The factual data shows that what you think you're watching, is simply not the case. There is no rhetoric that you can post that will change that fact.
- MJL

So you are going to name calling, lmfao you are trying to use statistics on a weak team with 2 players on the team who have played in over a year, how was he on the penalty kill??? he turnovers the puck at center ice, you clearly can't see that.

He is mediocre at best and like I said from the beginning I think Jett could outplay him.

Frost offense can be replaced 41 points

But you can keep trying to make yourself sound intelligent that's cool, but the end results there is 10 players on the Flyers roster I prefer over him.

[quote=MJL]What makes you think I'm mad. I think I proved who is actually dumber than a box of rocks.

What's funny is how you try breaking things down, hey Chuck fletcher had a app that told him the value oh his trade piece.

Now I get why ppl called you chuck

What's funny was I was enjoying having this conversation till you went to the name calling, which maybe I hit a soft spot saying you might not understand what you are watching.

It's ok to be a emotional lunchbox I still like you

[quote=MJL]What makes you think I'm mad. I think I proved who is actually dumber than a box of rocks.

What's funny is how you try breaking things down, hey Chuck fletcher had a app that told him the value oh his trade piece.

Now I get why ppl called you chuck

What's funny was I was enjoying having this conversation till you went to the name calling, which maybe I hit a soft spot saying you might not understand what you are watching.

It's ok to be a emotional lunchbox I still like you
- SlNlSTER

Ha ha, I think some call him Cliff from Cheers cause he is a know it all. He always resorts to name calling when his back is up against the wall. That should be a feather in your cap! And when he sees this comment he will tell me that I'm acting childish and making a fool of myself.

Ha ha, I think some call him Cliff from Cheers cause he is a know it all. He always resorts to name calling when his back is up against the wall. That should be a feather in your cap! And when he sees this comment he will tell me that I'm acting childish and making a fool of myself.
- Phillywhiteout

Lol but he doesn't know it all clearly

Ha ha, I think some call him Cliff from Cheers cause he is a know it all. He always resorts to name calling when his back is up against the wall. That should be a feather in your cap! And when he sees this comment he will tell me that I'm acting childish and making a fool of myself.
- Phillywhiteout

I did not call him a single name. My back up against the wall. That's pretty funny.

Lol but he doesn't know it all clearly
- SlNlSTER

Nobody knows it all but I clearly know more than you do. Now we're done with you.

Yes the powerplay as bad as it was, he had 8 assists, but you are forgetting how many assists came from him winning the draw, center generally gather more points.

For the rest of the stats kinda pointless to read, he was 5th in scoring and only 3 points more then our 3rd line center.
Statistics can be very misleading sometimes, 8 get why you refer to them.

But ill rather use the eye test and say he has skill but tends to play cute and it's very costly.

He is soft on the puck and I understand lots of players are.

Definitely in my opinion he is mediocre 🤷

Could he become a lot better sure he does have the tools, but I dought it
- SlNlSTER

I agree with you that stats are misleading. Torts just said this the other day in his presser, that one can turn stats around 10 different ways to suit their narrative, which is why its vital to watch the games. I will say thing about Frost. He WAS soft on the puck and he DID play cute. However I have seen a change in him. He is really trying to battle hard for pucks now and play a better 200 foot game. He still needs work on his faceoffs but I trust him a lot more defensively now than I did coming into last season. And Frost himself has stated he is working on shooting more, which I think is great since Frost has a sneaky good shot, and trying to be more consistent. As a fan, or even a coach, that is all I could ask for.

So you are going to name calling, lmfao you are trying to use statistics on a weak team with 2 players on the team who have played in over a year, how was he on the penalty kill??? he turnovers the puck at center ice, you clearly can't see that.

He is mediocre at best and like I said from the beginning I think Jett could outplay him.

Frost offense can be replaced 41 points

But you can keep trying to make yourself sound intelligent that's cool, but the end results there is 10 players on the Flyers roster I prefer over him.
- SlNlSTER

There is no doubt in my mind that Luchanko makes the team out of camp next season and has the potential to put up more than 41 points. This is a big year for Frost and I think he knows it. Frost will play big minutes I suspect and play with good wingers. My hope is Torts just keeps him at 2C and puts him on the 1st PP unit, and leaves him alone; let him sink or swim. I don't want to see Frost move up and down the lineup, and I certainly don't want to see Frost benched. And honestly I will be surprised if this happens. Torts said the other day, and to be honest he sounded a bit vexed when he said it, that he has not set the lines in these pre-season games, Briere did, so as Tort's said, "ask him!" This to me is a good sign, that Briere is starting to insist a bit more, which I hope means Frost plays.

I agree with you that stats are misleading. Torts just said this the other day in his presser, that one can turn stats around 10 different ways to suit their narrative, which is why its vital to watch the games. I will say thing about Frost. He WAS soft on the puck and he DID play cute. However I have seen a change in him. He is really trying to battle hard for pucks now and play a better 200 foot game. He still needs work on his faceoffs but I trust him a lot more defensively now than I did coming into last season. And Frost himself has stated he is working on shooting more, which I think is great since Frost has a sneaky good shot, and trying to be more consistent. As a fan, or even a coach, that is all I could ask for.
- jd250

Actually Torts added that most of the analytics are a “bunch of poop”. Lol. But rather simply “one of” the tools coach’s, GM’s and teams use in measuring a player.

I agree with you that stats are misleading. Torts just said this the other day in his presser, that one can turn stats around 10 different ways to suit their narrative, which is why its vital to watch the games. I will say thing about Frost. He WAS soft on the puck and he DID play cute. However I have seen a change in him. He is really trying to battle hard for pucks now and play a better 200 foot game. He still needs work on his faceoffs but I trust him a lot more defensively now than I did coming into last season. And Frost himself has stated he is working on shooting more, which I think is great since Frost has a sneaky good shot, and trying to be more consistent. As a fan, or even a coach, that is all I could ask for.
- jd250

Those that say that stats are misleading are those that can't grasp or refuse to look at simple data. Please explain how any of the stats I used in the conversation were misleading. Maybe if Tortorella wasn't such a Neanderthal and was willing to use analytical data. He would know and correct certain things sooner. Such as knowing that starting two defenseman in OT is not effective. Data would show how and where goals are scored from in the NHL and he wouldn't have had to contemplate during the Summer on how to adjust the Flyers offensive attack strategy.
As far as Frost is concerned. You have never been right about him. It's as if you're stuck in a time warp. Still harping on areas of his game that have long since been corrected. Slow to recognize. Another example of how you realize that the sun came up around dinner time.

There is no doubt in my mind that Luchanko makes the team out of camp next season and has the potential to put up more than 41 points. This is a big year for Frost and I think he knows it. Frost will play big minutes I suspect and play with good wingers. My hope is Torts just keeps him at 2C and puts him on the 1st PP unit, and leaves him alone; let him sink or swim. I don't want to see Frost move up and down the lineup, and I certainly don't want to see Frost benched. And honestly I will be surprised if this happens. Torts said the other day, and to be honest he sounded a bit vexed when he said it, that he has not set the lines in these pre-season games, Briere did, so as Tort's said, "ask him!" This to me is a good sign, that Briere is starting to insist a bit more, which I hope means Frost plays.
- jd250

You're fixated on everything Tortorella says. Shouldn't believe a word he says. He is unreliable and a manipulator.
My hope is that a conflict develops between Briere and Tortorella leading to an ouster of Tortorella. That would be a start.

Is it true that Michkov used a knee to control puck soccer player style? I read it on phily.com a few mins ago, and came here to see discussion about it but no one seems to have said anything ....
- PT21

Because that’s a positive and we only dwell on the negative here. 😂

Those that say that stats are misleading are those that can't grasp or refuse to look at simple data. Please explain how any of the stats I used in the conversation were misleading. Maybe if Tortorella wasn't such a Neanderthal and was willing to use analytical data. He would know and correct certain things sooner. Such as knowing that starting two defenseman in OT is not effective. Data would ahow how and where goals are scored from in the NHL and he wouldn't have had to contemplate during the Summer on how to adjust the Flyers offensive attack strategy.
As far as Frost is concerned. You have never been right about him. It's as if your stuck in a time warp. Still harping on areas of his game that have long since been corrected. Slow to recognize. Another example.if how you realize that the sun came up around dinner time.
- MJL

Ok so let's break this down, how much pk time is frost on? Since you think his stats say he is 1 of the better in his own end???

So a easily example for you 2 understand not something that's actually happens

If 1 player play in 1 power play and score a goal that means he has 100 % success rate. So technically he has the best stats on a team 🤔 so then a MJL comes alone and says see he looks awesome his stats say he number 1.

Now same thing if a player is never used in the pk or the coach hardly trust him in his own end for routine taking a face off and get the puck out.

That said player would appear to have better defensive stats because he wasn't put in difficult situations.

So stats can be misleading, the best way to judge a player is by the eye test, if stats was the best way then no scout would ever leave the house they just look at the numbers like you and make a argument for such player.

Ok so let's break this down, how much pk time is frost on? Since you think his stats say he is 1 of the better in his own end???

So a easily example for you 2 understand not something that's actually happens

If 1 player play in 1 power play and score a goal that means he has 100 % success rate. So technically he has the best stats on a team 🤔 so then a MJL comes alone and says see he looks awesome his stats say he number 1.

Now same thing if a player is never used in the pk or the coach hardly trust him in his own end for routine taking a face off and get the puck out.

That said player would appear to have better defensive stats because he wasn't put in difficult situations.

So stats can be misleading, the best way to judge a player is by the eye test, if stats was the best way then no scout would ever leave the house they just look at the numbers like you and make a argument for such player.
- SlNlSTER

I clearly in my posts to you and you can review this. Removed using filters, the low ice time players to remove small samples. Frost does not fall into that category. He has a high ice time sample.

I clearly in my posts to you and you can review this. Removed using filters, the low ice time players to remove small samples. Frost does not fall into that category. He has a high ice time sample.
- MJL

Yes you did, but did you account for his offensive starts and his defensive starts, you can easily hide players weaknesses.

I did not call him a single name. My back up against the wall. That's pretty funny.

- MJL

So when you said, “I think I proved who is actually dumber than a box of rocks” you were referring to yourself?

Yes you did, but did you account for his offensive starts and his defensive starts, you can easily hide players weaknesses.
- SlNlSTER

Go ahead, account for his offensive and defensive starts. Provide the data and we'll review it. I think it's your turn to provide some actual facts.

Analytics over time provide enough of a sample of data that it will expose any weaknesses in a player for players that have played a large enough amount of ice time As Frost has

https://hockey-graphs.com/tag/zone-starts/


"Zone starts are not that great of a metric. Although certain players do tend to be put out almost exclusively for offensive or defensive purposes, the reality is that for most players’ zone starts have a relatively small effect on a player’s performance."