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Forums :: Blog World :: Ben Shelley: Shorthanded Islanders fall 5-2 to Rangers
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batteryjackson
New York Islanders
Location: MEDICINE HAT MEDICINE PUSHERS, AB
Joined: 09.30.2014

Nov 24 @ 12:01 AM ET
good poop boys
ses111
New York Islanders
Joined: 06.07.2008

Nov 24 @ 7:52 AM ET
The Islanders built their dynasty team at a time (the 1970s) when players could only be drafted when they were 20. That changed in 1980, and a lot of GMs have said over the years that drafting 18-year-olds is much more of a crapshoot.

Look at two draft picks who were considered solid when they were made: Wahlstrom picked 11th overall; and Dobson picked 12th overall. Wally is close to a complete bust; and Dobson's game, at least on D, has declined precipitously.

That doesn't mean it's impossible to do a rebuild your way, just that the odds of success have dropped.

- JohnScammo


No question drafting 18 years is not ideal. Other teams manage to do a better job than the Islanders though. The Islanders do not seem to have strong scouting which does not help. Even drafting 20-year-olds, the Islanders had great scouting back in the day. How many teams passed on Bossy when the Islanders were smart enough to draft him? What is the alternate for the Islanders than building through the draft if they have trouble signing quality UFA's? They had a hall of fame GM and coach and still had trouble signing top FA's.
JohnScammo
New York Islanders
Location: Coming to a jail near you
Joined: 10.14.2014

Nov 24 @ 10:14 AM ET
No question drafting 18 years is not ideal. Other teams manage to do a better job than the Islanders though. The Islanders do not seem to have strong scouting which does not help. Even drafting 20-year-olds, the Islanders had great scouting back in the day. How many teams passed on Bossy when the Islanders were smart enough to draft him? What is the alternate for the Islanders than building through the draft if they have trouble signing quality UFA's? They had a hall of fame GM and coach and still had trouble signing top FA's.
- ses111

I understood you to say that the Isles should build the team the way they did back in the day. My point was simply that it's not so easy to do it that way, because drafting has become more of a crapshoot than it was in the 1970s.

Smart drafting is still important to building a good team. Blowing up the team to get draft picks may or may not yield the long term results you're looking for. Like you said, smart trades are vital to a rebuild. And just to be completely clear, if the Isles are still playing "NHL .500 hockey" at the trade deadline, I have no problem trading guys on expiring contracts like Palmieri and Nelson for draft picks and/or prospects.
ses111
New York Islanders
Joined: 06.07.2008

Nov 24 @ 10:32 AM ET
I understood you to say that the Isles should build the team the way they did back in the day. My point was simply that it's not so easy to do it that way, because drafting has become more of a crapshoot than it was in the 1970s.

Smart drafting is still important to building a good team. Blowing up the team to get draft picks may or may not yield the long term results you're looking for. Like you said, smart trades are vital to a rebuild. And just to be completely clear, if the Isles are still playing "NHL .500 hockey" at the trade deadline, I have no problem trading guys on expiring contracts like Palmieri and Nelson for draft picks and/or prospects.

- JohnScammo


It's all good John. No guarantees with the Draft like everything else, but in a Cap world, you better be able to rely on cheaper internal options. Even with the difficulty of the draft today, the Islanders can help themselves with better scouting and development. Signing quality UFA's may always be a challenge for the Islanders. Bridge is an example of the Islanders issues. You need better people than Kenny Morrow and Eric Cairns involved in scouting and development.
nyisles7
New York Islanders
Location: Wrong timing, NY
Joined: 01.20.2009

Nov 24 @ 11:04 AM ET
I understood you to say that the Isles should build the team the way they did back in the day. My point was simply that it's not so easy to do it that way, because drafting has become more of a crapshoot than it was in the 1970s.

Smart drafting is still important to building a good team. Blowing up the team to get draft picks may or may not yield the long term results you're looking for. Like you said, smart trades are vital to a rebuild. And just to be completely clear, if the Isles are still playing "NHL .500 hockey" at the trade deadline, I have no problem trading guys on expiring contracts like Palmieri and Nelson for draft picks and/or prospects.

- JohnScammo


Shat Management
Shat Scouting
Shat Drafting
Shat Player development
Shat Coaching
+ Shat Talent
————————————————
💩MASSIVE PILE OF SHAT💩

Just can’t understand why the Islanders can’t get it right? It’s so easy on the internet!
Nfdbulldawg
New York Islanders
Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: 06.29.2007

Nov 24 @ 11:25 AM ET
The Islanders built their dynasty team at a time (the 1970s) when players could only be drafted when they were 20. That changed in 1980, and a lot of GMs have said over the years that drafting 18-year-olds is much more of a crapshoot.

Look at two draft picks who were considered solid when they were made: Wahlstrom picked 11th overall; and Dobson picked 12th overall. Wally is close to a complete bust; and Dobson's game, at least on D, has declined precipitously.

That doesn't mean it's impossible to do a rebuild your way, just that the odds of success have dropped.

- JohnScammo


That is why most college coaches do not take players until they are minimum 20 years. It is very rare that you 18 and 19 year players on college teams.
Nfdbulldawg
New York Islanders
Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: 06.29.2007

Nov 24 @ 11:33 AM ET
Shop his ass. Old and Slow!
- nyisles7


His value is pretty high right now. Given the fact that he is a UFA, at 33 is he really part of the future? If the Isles do not move him. Do you risk losing him for nothing? Personally, I think he is playing his way off this team.
Nfdbulldawg
New York Islanders
Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: 06.29.2007

Nov 24 @ 11:37 AM ET
Lol. My daughters play soccer, and are currently 17 and 16. The best players on their teams when they were 12/13 are no longer very good. Some players peak early. I had higher hopes for Wally. Just didn’t work out for him I guess.
- streaks


Crazy how the playing field pyramid works. Happened with my son in hockey. Everyone grew and he did not. Tough to play college hockey defense at 5'6".
Nfdbulldawg
New York Islanders
Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: 06.29.2007

Nov 24 @ 11:48 AM ET
Shat Management
Shat Scouting
Shat Drafting
Shat Player development
Shat Coaching
+ Shat Talent
————————————————
💩MASSIVE PILE OF SHAT💩

Just can’t understand why the Islanders can’t get it right? It’s so easy on the internet!

- nyisles7

Shat Management Lou appears to have brought this group of players as far as they are going to go. He has brought dignity back to an organization that was rutter less for years. It is time to take the next step.

Shat Scouting What real gems has this Scouting Staff provided this team. It is evident with the current prospect pool. Yes people will claim we traded away first round picks, however there are a lot of teams that remain strong due to their ability to draft well in the late rounds. It is time to revamp the scouting staff.

Shat Player development Again look at Bridgeport. That speaks volumes.

Shat Coaching Do not have issue with Coaching.

Shat Talent Team has too much of the same B, C, and D, level talent. The blue collar theme will only get you so far.

ses111
New York Islanders
Joined: 06.07.2008

Nov 24 @ 12:08 PM ET
Shat Management Lou appears to have brought this group of players as far as they are going to go. He has brought dignity back to an organization that was rutter less for years. It is time to take the next step.

Shat Scouting What real gems has this Scouting Staff provided this team. It is evident with the current prospect pool. Yes people will claim we traded away first round picks, however there are a lot of teams that remain strong due to their ability to draft well in the late rounds. It is time to revamp the scouting staff.

Shat Player development Again look at Bridgeport. That speaks volumes.

Shat Coaching Do not have issue with Coaching.

Shat Talent Team has too much of the same B, C, and D, level talent. The blue collar theme will only get you so far.

- Nfdbulldawg


You must be a fan that wants more from the team than just struggling to just make the playoffs and lose in the 1st round. This is a vet type team on top of everything that is not rebuilding where you need to have more patience as a fan.
ses111
New York Islanders
Joined: 06.07.2008

Nov 24 @ 12:13 PM ET
His value is pretty high right now. Given the fact that he is a UFA, at 33 is he really part of the future? If the Isles do not move him. Do you risk losing him for nothing? Personally, I think he is playing his way off this team.
- Nfdbulldawg


How dare you wanting to a trade 33 year old UFA when the Islanders do not seem to be a legit Cup contender.
nyisles7
New York Islanders
Location: Wrong timing, NY
Joined: 01.20.2009

Nov 24 @ 12:33 PM ET
Shat Management Lou appears to have brought this group of players as far as they are going to go. He has brought dignity back to an organization that was rutter less for years. It is time to take the next step.

Shat Scouting What real gems has this Scouting Staff provided this team. It is evident with the current prospect pool. Yes people will claim we traded away first round picks, however there are a lot of teams that remain strong due to their ability to draft well in the late rounds. It is time to revamp the scouting staff.

Holmstrom and George look legit. Isles have picked in the middle to lower half of the draft in Lou’s tenure. Draft picks at that level aren’t guaranteed. Even higher ones aren’t. As JS said once the league started drafting 18 YO it has been tougher.
The Snow regime was a decade plus of a shatshow.


Shat Player development Again look at Bridgeport. That speaks volumes.

AHL success means nothing for me. Most winning teams are depleted in their AHL squads.

Shat Coaching Do not have issue with Coaching.

Roy is a good coach. Team comes out and plays hard every night. The D has definitely improved under him which is good. The team could have folded with all the injuries and threw in the towels but they haven’t. They believe in his message and system.

Shat Talent Team has too much of the same B, C, and D, level talent. The blue collar theme will only get you so far.

- Nfdbulldawg


The team is talented. Most NHL teams are talented. Imho coaching is the most important element to get to the next step in the Cap NHL years. Look at the recent winners. Bringing in the right coach has made the big difference in mho.


I’m hoping they can stay in the PO hunt and when they get their full team back and are healthy make a run.
nyisles7
New York Islanders
Location: Wrong timing, NY
Joined: 01.20.2009

Nov 24 @ 12:42 PM ET
That is why most college coaches do not take players until they are minimum 20 years. It is very rare that you 18 and 19 year players on college teams.
- Nfdbulldawg



Most higher talented players also go to Jrs. first and play. If they aren’t cutting it or don’t see getting drafted that route they wind up going to college and play. This way if they make it in hockey great. If not they have an education and future other than hockey. That’s why a lot of college players are 20+ as rookies. Not many true freshman in college hockey but there are some.
nyisles7
New York Islanders
Location: Wrong timing, NY
Joined: 01.20.2009

Nov 24 @ 12:47 PM ET
His value is pretty high right now. Given the fact that he is a UFA, at 33 is he really part of the future? If the Isles do not move him. Do you risk losing him for nothing? Personally, I think he is playing his way off this team.
- Nfdbulldawg


I don’t think Lou will lose anyone for nothing. He was born at night but not last night. Let’s give him more credit than that.
He’s been the best and most consistent forward imo this year. The line of Nelly, Palms and Tsypy has been their best line. This is with other teams keying on them nightly.
When Barzy and Duke come back hopefully they will regain the chemistry with Bo we started seeing in the beginning of the season. This will bring more scoring and give the opposition more to defend against.
Of course just my opinion, but why be positive much easier pissing and moaning about the team we route for.
Nfdbulldawg
New York Islanders
Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: 06.29.2007

Nov 24 @ 1:21 PM ET
Most higher talented players also go to Jrs. first and play. If they aren’t cutting it or don’t see getting drafted that route they wind up going to college and play. This way if they make it in hockey great. If not they have an education and future other than hockey. That’s why a lot of college players are 20+ as rookies. Not many true freshman in college hockey but there are some.
- nyisles7


If you speak to college coaches, they want the player to go to Jr's to develop both as a player and physically. There are some exceptions but a bulk including the one's drafted face this path. It is rare that an 18 year can just jump in.
Nfdbulldawg
New York Islanders
Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: 06.29.2007

Nov 24 @ 1:28 PM ET
I don’t think Lou will lose anyone for nothing. He was born at night but not last night. Let’s give him more credit than that.
He’s been the best and most consistent forward imo this year. The line of Nelly, Palms and Tsypy has been their best line. This is with other teams keying on them nightly.
When Barzy and Duke come back hopefully they will regain the chemistry with Bo we started seeing in the beginning of the season. This will bring more scoring and give the opposition more to defend against.
Of course just my opinion, but why be positive much easier pissing and moaning about the team we route for.

- nyisles7


Just because a person has a critical opinion from time to time about the team does not mean a person does not root for the team. Is it better that we all a DEI point of view. You can take the best team in any sport and be critical of its actions. The New York sports market is king of that. If everyone was slapping each other on the azz being positive about our teams there would be no sports talk radio. Heck this blog would not exist. It is healthy to discuss things.
ses111
New York Islanders
Joined: 06.07.2008

Nov 24 @ 2:05 PM ET
Just because a person has a critical opinion from time to time about the team does not mean a person does not root for the team. Is it better that we all a DEI point of view. You can take the best team in any sport and be critical of its actions. The New York sports market is king of that. If everyone was slapping each other on the azz being positive about our teams there would be no sports talk radio. Heck this blog would not exist. It is healthy to discuss things.
- Nfdbulldawg


Maybe this blog needs to be a safe space?
nyisles7
New York Islanders
Location: Wrong timing, NY
Joined: 01.20.2009

Nov 24 @ 2:07 PM ET
Just because a person has a critical opinion from time to time about the team does not mean a person does not root for the team. Is it better that we all a DEI point of view. You can take the best team in any sport and be critical of its actions. The New York sports market is king of that. If everyone was slapping each other on the azz being positive about our teams there would be no sports talk radio. Heck this blog would not exist. It is healthy to discuss things.
- Nfdbulldawg



No problem with healthy discussion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However there’s a a few on here who have female doged since Lou was hired. Made his first trades and shat signings and we were gonna suck ass. It’s been the same old shat ever since. Gets old. It’s kind of like the few highly educated that are preaching DEI to the rest of us.
Since Lou has come the team has made the POs every year but 1 with a couple ECF appearances. Unfortunately we faced the bolts both times.
It’s amazing how many brilliant hockey minds are on the internet female doging and moaning and pointing out mistakes after the fact. It comical.
But as you said I guess that’s what this site is all about. In the same vain I guess I can call BS when I smell it.

Cptmjl
New York Islanders
Joined: 11.05.2011

Nov 24 @ 3:02 PM ET
His value is pretty high right now. Given the fact that he is a UFA, at 33 is he really part of the future? If the Isles do not move him. Do you risk losing him for nothing? Personally, I think he is playing his way off this team.
- Nfdbulldawg

Or even worse sign him to his last long term contract when he’ll be on his decline.
Cptmjl
New York Islanders
Joined: 11.05.2011

Nov 24 @ 3:08 PM ET
How dare you wanting to a trade 33 year old UFA when the Islanders do not seem to be a legit Cup contender.

- ses111

Resigning either Palmieri or Nelson would be stupid. Does anyone think this team is a competitor besides the usual person who is hoping just to make the playoffs. You never know 🤞.

Signing two players who will be on their decline to long term contracts is exactly the problem with this team. Its would be doubling down on the same old mistake. I fully expect Lou to do exactly this.
nyisles7
New York Islanders
Location: Wrong timing, NY
Joined: 01.20.2009

Nov 24 @ 3:12 PM ET
If you speak to college coaches, they want the player to go to Jr's to develop both as a player and physically. There are some exceptions but a bulk including the one's drafted face this path. It is rare that an 18 year can just jump in.
- Nfdbulldawg


Agreed. There a a few but true freshman’s are hard to find especially in division 1.
Best players are typically going to Jrs for a couple years and then hopefully get signed.
ses111
New York Islanders
Joined: 06.07.2008

Nov 24 @ 3:26 PM ET
Resigning either Palmieri or Nelson would be stupid. Does anyone think this team is a competitor besides the usual person who is hoping just to make the playoffs. You never know 🤞.

Signing two players who will be on their decline to long term contracts is exactly the problem with this team. Its would be doubling down on the same old mistake. I fully expect Lou to do exactly this.

- Cptmjl


If someone wants to live off the 4 cups or the recent 2 ECF, God Bless You! I want more for my team. Just make one Cup since 1983 and win or lose, I'll tone down the negative comments. Forget the Cup, just start a rebuild and I'll be thrilled. Lou had his run and then some. He needs to do the right thing and retire, or he needs to be fired. Bill did not get to say when he was done and neither should Lou. Lou owes it to the team and fanbase to move Nelson and Palms and to put this team on a good path to the future. If for some reason ownership does not want any sort of rebuild, Lou should quit.
Nfdbulldawg
New York Islanders
Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: 06.29.2007

Nov 24 @ 3:37 PM ET
Maybe this blog needs to be a safe space?
- ses111


Cptmjl
New York Islanders
Joined: 11.05.2011

Nov 24 @ 3:40 PM ET
If someone wants to live off the 4 cups or the recent 2 ECF, God Bless You! I want more for my team. Just make one Cup since 1983 and win or lose, I'll tone down the negative comments. Forget the Cup, just start a rebuild and I'll be thrilled. Lou had his run and then some. He needs to do the right thing and retire, or he needs to be fired. Bill did not get to say when he was done and neither should Lou. Lou owes it to the team and fanbase to move Nelson and Palms and to put this team on a good path to the future. If for some reason ownership does not want any sort of rebuild, Lou should quit.
- ses111

It’s not even dwelling in past success. It’s being able to acknowledge the obvious at this point.
Cptmjl
New York Islanders
Joined: 11.05.2011

Nov 24 @ 3:43 PM ET
Maybe this blog needs to be a safe space?
- ses111

Anyone who lets this thread ruin their day has serious problems.
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