But the Leafs never play down to their opponents. Unpossible.

Kind of crazy how the Leafs go years in a row without being shutout but this year, the Habs and the Sens are shutting them out.
- Rare_Jewel

Who says this? They always play down to their opponents.

As much as I would love Soto on the Jays, I can't possibly imagine (hope for?) this scenario happening.

He's going to one of the big clubs down south: Yanks, Mets, or Dodgers. If not those 3, I'm thinking Red Sox, Cubbies, or Giants.

Having said that, the Jays org has long been very Dominican-friendly with some all-time greats playing for the club in the past. So maybe he continues that trend?

One can only hope. 🤞
- mjones242

I dont think he ends up with the Jays, I think they are being used (again) to drive up the price.

But its silly to say he wouldnt make much difference

I just hope its not the Yanks or Dodgers. Mets would be fine, and funny
f the red sux. Cubs and Giants I dont care

Who says this? They always play down to their opponents.
- Kinger34

I think its both ways, Sens playing in Toronto get amped up and play hard.
The leafs just sitting back and thinking they are the better team is a poop strategy

I think its both ways, Sens playing in Toronto get amped up and play hard.
The leafs just sitting back and thinking they are the better team is a poop strategy
- senstroll

Ottawa's forwards were allowed to enter the zone and slot with speed and almost unopposed. Then they just fired at will. No taking the body, just some lazy stick swipes.

With the exception of a few brief sequences, the Sens were able to clear their own zone quickly. Leafs struggled to get any sustained o-zone time, and when they did they mostly wasted it on one and done outside shots. Ullmark wasn't called upon much at all.

A pretty lopsided game where the Leafs got what they earned - nothing.

Now regroup, get Matthews back, and go on a heater.

I'm starting to think Kyle Dubas might be a fraud
- AdamFrench

I throw this out there - for consideration . . . when Dubas came to the Leafs, the league was spouting out and patting itself on the back for how it's crackdown on interference and obstruction had allowed small players to come back into the league and flourish. In 2016 there were 35 players 5'9 or smaller in the league and most weren't excelling, but you had outliers like Marchand, Zuccarello and Atkinson who were just plain talented. If you compare that to the present NHL there are 29, and again most aren't excelling but you have newer faces like Caufield and Hutson in that area while guys like Marchand and Atkinson are aging and not where they used to be. There are no players smaller than 5'8 at present.

That preamble was to note that I think - I don't know the guy and know nothing about what happened behind closed doors - in the beginning Dubas believed in the league and believed in what they were saying but he soon found out that it was all horsecrap that they were shovelling out - like the NHL always does. It's easy to gaslight the fans because they are all so angry about other fanbases that they can't get together and agree that the league is being run very, very poorly with hockey ops being run by some pretty dumb guys.

By 2021 you had Dubas adding guys like Bogosian and Simmonds because he was recognizing the need for size and muscle. Unfortunately his previous contractual overages coupled with the stagnant cap had basically crippled his ability to get talent better than guys like that. His last trade deadline in Toronto recognized a number of deficiencies and I thought addressed most of all them - Schenn, O'Rielly, Acciari, Lafferty, McCabe . . . it was a pretty good job.

Which rounds me to this: I can't think of a GM in NHL history who could have saved the Penguins in the state they were in when Dubas arrived. Everyone was basically 35, sitting with an NMC and the cupboards were bare.

They could embarked on a full-on rebuild right there - which was the advisable course - or they could have tried for at least one last shot at glory, even if it only had a 1% chance of success. Let's face it - Erik Karlsson cost them Konsta Helenius, which isn't, I don't think, that much. It has, predictably, failed miserably - but at least they tried something. Now they know.

Is he a fraud? He's not as good as we wanted him to be, and he wasn't as good at first in particular, leading to a lot of problems down the road for us. In Pittsburgh he has a chance to correct some of those mistakes he's made in the past but whether he's actually a capable NHL GM or a product of hype who inherited a great situation will probably be determined in the next 2-3 years.

he sold Eller for a good price, so good for him?

The pens have a really easy 3 games so we’ll see. I hope they crap the bed.

I really want to see a fire sale.
- Santo_44

There's nothing to sell.

correction, The Jays signing Soto would make a huge difference. you cant say it wouldnt. hes an alltime great...already.

but, there are other options. Santandar, Adames, alonso..but all lesser options



this thread on Soto

https://x.com/DownToBlack...tatus/1856320650824007814
- senstroll

If the jays dont make the necessary moves on top of soto to improve the team, then he alone wont move the team forward and deeper into the playoffs. Thats all i meant.
Of course he helps the team and is a great player.
But they need much more than just him and are they willing to spend $300 million or more on payroll?

Atkins better have other irons in fire while also "persuing" soto, we cant have a repeat of last off season.

There's nothing to sell.
- AdamFrench

If you could get Malkin to agree to a trade, things would get very interesting.

Would Crosby want to stay as the team walks through the desert for the next five years?

Well the Jays can pay him.

They have the separate budget like they did for Ohtani.

Ohtani was down to the Jays and Dodgers. Don’t see why the Jays couldn’t get him.

I have no idea what Soto wants but in terms of money the Jays can be with the top offers for sure, if they want to be.
- Santo_44

The reason they had a separate budget for Ohtani was because he wasnt just a competitive decision (improving the team) he was also huge get from a business/marketing side globally and they felt alot of that money could be recouped. The question is, would Soto provide similar off field benefits?
If they think than I'm sure the Jays will go hard for him, the question than becomes how much more do the Jays have to overpay for him? Because they most certainly will have to overpay. Its believe at a minimum, Soto wants $50m x 10. So the Jays would have to do either $60m x 10 or $50m x 12.
We'll see.

The reason they had a separate budget for Ohtani was because he wasnt just a competitive decision (improving the team) he was also huge get from a business/marketing side globally and they felt alot of that money could be recouped. The question is, would Soto provide similar off field benefits?
If they think than I'm sure the Jays will go hard for him, the question than becomes how much more do the Jays have to overpay for him? Because they most certainly will have to overpay. Its believe at a minimum, Soto wants $50m x 10. So the Jays would have to do either $60m x 10 or $50m x 12.
We'll see.
- Fakepartofme

From what I read is they do have another separate budget for Soto.

They can do it, and they should. Match whatever the Mets want to give him. Give him more.

If the jays dont make the necessary moves on top of soto to improve the team, then he alone wont move the team forward and deeper into the playoffs. Thats all i meant.
Of course he helps the team and is a great player.
But they need much more than just him and are they willing to spend $300 million or more on payroll?

Atkins better have other irons in fire while also "persuing" soto, we cant have a repeat of last off season.
- Fakepartofme

The Jays finished 12 games behind the final wildcard.

I don't think one guy makes that much of a difference.

There's nothing to sell.
- AdamFrench

Petterson is solid


Malkin if he agreed to a trade

Rust is good

The Jays finished 12 games behind the final wildcard.

I don't think one guy makes that much of a difference.
- Atomic Wedgie

pretty irrelevant in baseball for teams that can spend

From what I read is they do have another separate budget for Soto.

They can do it, and they should. Match whatever the Mets want to give him. Give him more.
- Santo_44

That's what Ive heard as well.....but I really just think Soto's agent is just using the Jays as leverage.

That's what Ive heard as well.....but I really just think Soto's agent is just using the Jays as leverage.
- Fakepartofme

Yeah I don’t really agree with all that bs. Didn’t with Ohtani either.

The Jays finished 12 games behind the final wildcard.

I don't think one guy makes that much of a difference.
- Atomic Wedgie

Which is what I was trying to say. The Jays have so many holes, they need more than just a Soto and any agent will know that and asking the Jays what the heck they plan to do beyond Soto

Yeah I don’t really agree with all that bs. Didn’t with Ohtani either.
- Santo_44

Whether you agree with it or not....its what occurs and has occurred.
Not to say Ohtani may not have had interest in the Jays.....but they were definitely leveraged and good on his agent for doing so.

Whether you agree with it or not....its what occurs and has occurred.
Not to say Ohtani may not have had interest in the Jays.....but they were definitely leveraged and good on his agent for doing so.
- Fakepartofme

You are just speculating with a pessimist fan perspective.

No one of significance has said this, in fact they have said the opposite. Ohtani was legitimately interested in Toronto.

pretty irrelevant in baseball for teams that can spend
- Santo_44

It is when you are up against teams that can outspend you.....specially one in the division. Mets are already spending $100m more than the Jays, Yankees $90m more.

But we'll see.

You are just speculating with a pessimist persepctive.

No one of significance has said this, in fact they have said the opposite. Ohtani was legitimately interested in Toronto.
- Santo_44

Its not pessimistic. Lots of baseball analyst have said this, also if you read, I did say Ohtani had some interest in the Jays.
Ohtani's #1 spot was LA, but he wanted to do his due diligence with the Jays as he had some interest. Which help increased his contract.
Several things can be true: He wanted to be in LA, but also showed a general interest in the Jays, using their interest to get the best he could from LA.

Anywho, hope the jays get soto, but its a long shot and they also need much more than just him. Fingers crossed.

The Jays finished 12 games behind the final wildcard.

I don't think one guy makes that much of a difference.
- Atomic Wedgie

that really doesnt mean anything. for every example like that you have it the other way

The Royals finished 33 games back in 2023 and made the playoffs in 2024 . yes a very extreme example

Which is what I was trying to say. The Jays have so many holes, they need more than just a Soto and any agent will know that and asking the Jays what the heck they plan to do beyond Soto
- Fakepartofme

they cant and wont fix every issue all at once in the off season, but they can vastly improve, and fill holes through the season.

buy wins, not players. but 1 player gets you 6-8. thats good

Well the Jays can pay him.

They have the separate budget like they did for Ohtani.

Ohtani was down to the Jays and Dodgers. Don’t see why the Jays couldn’t get him.

I have no idea what Soto wants but in terms of money the Jays can be with the top offers for sure, if they want to be.
- Santo_44

I'm not arguing that they don't have the $$$ to pay him, I just don't see Soto wanting to play here over other big market teams. 🤷🏻

I also question whether the Jays were really ever in the Ohtani sweepstakes. I think it was always going to be LAD.

If you could get Malkin to agree to a trade, things would get very interesting.

Would Crosby want to stay as the team walks through the desert for the next five years?
- Atomic Wedgie

It all comes down to whether Crosby wants to retire with the same club that drafted him or if winning another Cup, elsewhere, is motivating to him.

Frankly, I think it would be cool if he stayed with the Pens until he retires.

I'm not arguing that they don't have the $$$ to pay him, I just don't see Soto wanting to play here over other big market teams. 🤷🏻

I also question whether the Jays were really ever in the Ohtani sweepstakes. I think it was always going to be LAD.
- mjones242

i think the same. was always the LAD