You mean like Grier signed Toffoli to play with Celebrini?
- LAHawk

Yeah. That was actually more along the lines of the type of player I wanted them to sign (basically Hall is that guy if he keeps his health). Toffoli is a bit older than I'd like, but still like his overall game better than TT and Bert. If the result of this season is Frank and Dach start to prove their worth, I'm happy with that, but I really would love to see a more thoughtful approach to the roster for next season.

I think this gets blown out of proportion a lot. Without arbitration rights, I don't think he has a lot of leverage to push his way out from the Hawks. They basically own him. Ultimately, maybe, but I don't think that is something to worry about for a while.

For all the CBA guys out there, are they allowed to negotiate an extension with him yet, or do they have to wait until next year?
- Chunk

The Hawks can negotiate with him starting this summer on an extension.

I wonder if Yzerman be willing to trade Cat to us? Toronto's first and some other stuff, i think Bedard and Cat would make a very nice pairing
- BetweenTheDots

Toews has started skating and is at his playing weight. Maybe KD can sign him to teach Foligno how to be a captain.

The Hawks can negotiate with him starting this summer on an extension.
- Black Raven

I don't see Bedard being like Lebron James and being a baby about it. I think he'll stay here and trust the org to build around him

Toews has started skating and is at his playing weight. Maybe KD can sign him to teach Foligno how to be a captain.
- LAHawk

The rumour I read is Edmonton is negotiating with Toews about signing a PTO.

The rumour I read is Edmonton is negotiating with Toews about signing a PTO.
- paulr

Makes sense reunite with Bowman. I don't think he cares for Davidson very much.

Makes sense reunite with Bowman. I don't think he cares for Davidson very much.
- LAHawk

Hahaha i think it has a little more to do with the Oilers being a playoff team.

Hahaha i think it has a little more to do with the Oilers being a playoff team.
- BetweenTheDots

It would be that as a main motivator I think and there is speculation that several teams are interested. While I think it's mostly speculation, Frank Seravalli suggested that Toronto, Winnipeg and Colorado are in that group of teams. I've heard New Jersey out there as well.

I think the big question right now is even if he is feeling healthy, how long will it last and how much does he have left in the tank. I think he does check a lot of boxes for teams looking for a center that can win draws.

Any team that wants to add him has until the trade deadline to sign him.

Sorensen on Kurashev & Reichel:
“At the end of the day it’s performance based. To stay in the lineup, you have to perform…They’ve been pros about it. They’re not happy & we don’t expect them to be. So when we get an opportunity to get back in, what are you going to do with it?”

Sorensen on Kurashev & Reichel:
“At the end of the day it’s performance based. To stay in the lineup, you have to perform…They’ve been pros about it. They’re not happy & we don’t expect them to be. So when we get an opportunity to get back in, what are you going to do with it?”
- Chunk

Sticks with the message from the offseason. Young players have to earn their spots. The vets.....eh.....well...not as much.

I mean, technically he did. Hall coming back is not insignificant. Adding TT and Bertuzzi are solid adds (especially at the numbers they got). They just don't have a guy currently that can really jive with him. To expect him at 19 to carry his entire line while there is literally no other threatening line on the roster is the problem.

If you are asking if there is pressure for KD to get him more or "real" help, I think the temperature is at least building towards that.
- Chunk

I think Hall coming back is over valued. He isn't really a top 6 player anymore. He's had multiple injuries the last 5 years, culminating with the ACL in November of 2023. He is also 33.

Did the front office think he would come back off major knee surgery and produce like he did in 2021 for the Bruins? That was still only 20g and 60 pts in 81 games.


Bertuzzi essentially replaces Tyler Johnson production, including falling down skating multiple times a game.

That leaves TT and the return of Hall as the upgrades at forward. Not exactly a block buster offseason or massive talent upgrade.

Have to assume the front office thought Kurashev would produce similar numbers this year, even though last year was a career high shooting %. Kurashev regressed big time this year. Definitely a mistake by the front office.

In reality, TT's added production backfills in the void left by Kurashev's regression, as TT will end up with 50-60pts this season.

Leaves the Hawks with pretty much the same level of offensive production as last year, with the addition of Hall, who the front office clearly overvalued.

Sorensen on Kurashev & Reichel:
“At the end of the day it’s performance based. To stay in the lineup, you have to perform…They’ve been pros about it. They’re not happy & we don’t expect them to be. So when we get an opportunity to get back in, what are you going to do with it?”
- Chunk

It is Kurashev's 5th season. I don't view him as a young guy. When you are in your 5th seasons of NHL hockey you are much closer to be a vet than a young rookie. Average NHL career is 4.5 seasons (or so says Google AI).

I think Hall coming back is over valued. He isn't really a top 6 player anymore. He's had multiple injuries the last 5 years, culminating with the ACL in November of 2023. He is also 33.

Did the front office think he would come back off major knee surgery and produce like he did in 2021 for the Bruins? That was still only 20g and 60 pts in 81 games.


Bertuzzi essentially replaces Tyler Johnson production, including falling down skating multiple times a game.

That leaves TT and the return of Hall as the upgrades at forward. Not exactly a block buster offseason or massive talent upgrade.

Have to assume the front office thought Kurashev would produce similar numbers this year, even though last year was a career high shooting %. Kurashev regressed big time this year. Definitely a mistake by the front office.

In reality, TT's added production backfills in the void left by Kurashev's regression, as TT will end up with 50-60pts this season.

Leaves the Hawks with pretty much the same level of offensive production as last year, with the addition of Hall, who the front office clearly overvalued.
- bhawks2241

Also Richard"nson's 22 goals last year, which more than doubled his career high. Actully on pace for 15 goals this year which is a good season for him,

I think Hall coming back is over valued. He isn't really a top 6 player anymore. He's had multiple injuries the last 5 years, culminating with the ACL in November of 2023. He is also 33.

Did the front office think he would come back off major knee surgery and produce like he did in 2021 for the Bruins? That was still only 20g and 60 pts in 81 games.


Bertuzzi essentially replaces Tyler Johnson production, including falling down skating multiple times a game.

That leaves TT and the return of Hall as the upgrades at forward. Not exactly a block buster offseason or massive talent upgrade.

Have to assume the front office thought Kurashev would produce similar numbers this year, even though last year was a career high shooting %. Kurashev regressed big time this year. Definitely a mistake by the front office.

In reality, TT's added production backfills in the void left by Kurashev's regression, as TT will end up with 50-60pts this season.

Leaves the Hawks with pretty much the same level of offensive production as last year, with the addition of Hall, who the front office clearly overvalued.
- bhawks2241

I really hoped they would have traded Kurashev (and sold high) after last season.

Hall is on pace for about 45 points coming back from a major injury, playing for a team lacking offense, sometimes playing with less than stellar linemates and without prime powerplay minutes/role. He ain't doing that bad IMO. He will never be a superstar again and he was always a bit one-dimensional, even during his younger days.

I'll put it this way, he is tied with Bedard for the team lead in even strength points, while often playing about 15% less even strength minutes.

Since Sorensen took over he has 10 points in 12 games 9 of those at even strength. For reference, that's only a few points outside top 5 even strength scoring players in that same span. I'm not saying he will remain a top even strength scoring player, but he isn't doing too bad lately, let's see how it goes over the next month or so.

I think Hall coming back is over valued. He isn't really a top 6 player anymore. He's had multiple injuries the last 5 years, culminating with the ACL in November of 2023. He is also 33.

Did the front office think he would come back off major knee surgery and produce like he did in 2021 for the Bruins? That was still only 20g and 60 pts in 81 games.


Bertuzzi essentially replaces Tyler Johnson production, including falling down skating multiple times a game.

That leaves TT and the return of Hall as the upgrades at forward. Not exactly a block buster offseason or massive talent upgrade.

Have to assume the front office thought Kurashev would produce similar numbers this year, even though last year was a career high shooting %. Kurashev regressed big time this year. Definitely a mistake by the front office.

In reality, TT's added production backfills in the void left by Kurashev's regression, as TT will end up with 50-60pts this season.

Leaves the Hawks with pretty much the same level of offensive production as last year, with the addition of Hall, who the front office clearly overvalued.
- bhawks2241

He's been much better after the first 15 games of the year. He's on pace for 43 for the whole year, and I'd expect closer to 50. I don't think you can overvalue that.

Overall, yeah, they didn't really add much over last year which is the overriding issue. I like that they moved on from depending on guys like Raddysh, Katchouk, Entwistle, etc, but to replace that with "vet leadership" or as I like to call them "slow guys" is not ideal.

It's like KD didn't want to get too good too fast, which I think is a stupid way to go about things. Now, there is a lot of evidence that he went pretty hard after Guentzel which I think was a good attempt, but when he wasn't able to land that, I think they should have looked more at guys like Kakko, Pool Party, Rossi, etc as guys that would not cost a ton to get, but were young enough to possibly be something.

To back fill with retreads doesn't accomplish much of anything.

Sticks with the message from the offseason. Young players have to earn their spots. The vets.....eh.....well...not as much.
- breadbag

Honestly, I think all the vets just stay in until they get moved. You don't want to drop trade value just to prove a point.

I repeat myself but this is why it's pretty pointless to backfill the roster with vets (especially during a rebuild). At least pick up some guys who have a chance at developing into something.

I think Hall coming back is over valued. He isn't really a top 6 player anymore. He's had multiple injuries the last 5 years, culminating with the ACL in November of 2023. He is also 33.

Did the front office think he would come back off major knee surgery and produce like he did in 2021 for the Bruins? That was still only 20g and 60 pts in 81 games.


Bertuzzi essentially replaces Tyler Johnson production, including falling down skating multiple times a game.

That leaves TT and the return of Hall as the upgrades at forward. Not exactly a block buster offseason or massive talent upgrade.

Have to assume the front office thought Kurashev would produce similar numbers this year, even though last year was a career high shooting %. Kurashev regressed big time this year. Definitely a mistake by the front office.

In reality, TT's added production backfills in the void left by Kurashev's regression, as TT will end up with 50-60pts this season.

Leaves the Hawks with pretty much the same level of offensive production as last year, with the addition of Hall, who the front office clearly overvalued.
- bhawks2241

They don't get first dibs on free agents. Plus this team is likely on a good number of players' no trade lists. It's easier when everyone wants to come here. So this team is stuck picking up salary dumps in the hopes that they regain some of their luster while here, often getting a sweetener for their troubles.

Also keep in mind that they got an exclusive negotiation window for Foligno out of the deal for Hall, and they only gave up two prospects who were not going anywhere here. There's not a lot of glory in this deal, we all know that. But there is a salary floor in this league, and one of the ways to get there is to temporarily stock the roster with vets on the decline who might be able to impart some of their hockey wisdom to the yutes. And if they're lucky, they can add a pick or a prospect on expiring contracts at the deadline.

If Hall never injured his ACL, maybe he would have added something. That's a serious injury, with a bonus of psychological hurdles even after the full rehab/recovery. Nobody was expecting another Hart campaign from him, but this was probably the worst case scenario. Did they misgauge the probability of an event like this? Who knows?

In the meantime, we have to wait for the prospects to be NHL ready. Many are not going to make it. It's a numbers game. More picks, more NHLers. In a few years, we'll know more about how well the scouts performed. And this board, if it still exists then, should be fun if there are more busts than normal.

Damn. Hayes out 8-12 weeks with a shoulder sprain. He had a little more pep in his play in the last three games. He got knocked over by the boards (D-zone). I'm not sure if it was the hit or landing on the ice that did it.

AA's wrist recovered enough to practice again.

They don't get first dibs on free agents. Plus this team is likely on a good number of players' no trade lists. It's easier when everyone wants to come here. So this team is stuck picking up salary dumps in the hopes that they regain some of their luster while here, often getting a sweetener for their troubles.

Also keep in mind that they got an exclusive negotiation window for Foligno out of the deal for Hall, and they only gave up two prospects who were not going anywhere here. There's not a lot of glory in this deal, we all know that. But there is a salary floor in this league, and one of the ways to get there is to temporarily stock the roster with vets on the decline who might be able to impart some of their hockey wisdom to the yutes. And if they're lucky, they can add a pick or a prospect on expiring contracts at the deadline.

If Hall never injured his ACL, maybe he would have added something. That's a serious injury, with a bonus of psychological hurdles even after the full rehab/recovery. Nobody was expecting another Hart campaign from him, but this was probably the worst case scenario. Did they misgauge the probability of an event like this? Who knows?

In the meantime, we have to wait for the prospects to be NHL ready. Many are not going to make it. It's a numbers game. More picks, more NHLers. In a few years, we'll know more about how well the scouts performed. And this board, if it still exists then, should be fun if there are more busts than normal.
- 333inthe3rd

Considering the amount of picks KD has left, I wouldn't rule out an RFA offer like STL did. It may not be as effective with the cap going up but still could happen.

He's been much better after the first 15 games of the year. He's on pace for 43 for the whole year, and I'd expect closer to 50. I don't think you can overvalue that.

Overall, yeah, they didn't really add much over last year which is the overriding issue. I like that they moved on from depending on guys like Raddysh, Katchouk, Entwistle, etc, but to replace that with "vet leadership" or as I like to call them "slow guys" is not ideal.

It's like KD didn't want to get too good too fast, which I think is a stupid way to go about things. Now, there is a lot of evidence that he went pretty hard after Guentzel which I think was a good attempt, but when he wasn't able to land that, I think they should have looked more at guys like Kakko, Pool Party, Rossi, etc as guys that would not cost a ton to get, but were young enough to possibly be something.

To back fill with retreads doesn't accomplish much of anything.
- Chunk

Just playing devil's advocate a bit, but maybe they did. Do we need another underachieving young forward like Kakko? Was the asking price for a guy like Rossi too high? Do we need another tiny skilled guy up front when we have a lot of that in the system?

I don't know the answer really, but just throwing it out there. I think it's good debate.

I'll take a few retreads that we have right now over the "never was" guys we had last season. I mean, it's great to have younger guys with upside, but we already have a handful of those around/near the NHL roster and do we need more guys trying to find their way? Teams won't be lining up to trade us young guys who are on the right path already, those guys they keep or ask way too much for. We would be able to land the guys who need a change of scenery, so there is still some risk that they never find it.

Did maybe KD sign a couple more older vets than needed? Maybe, but we do need experienced guys too. We need guys like Maroon mentoring guys like Reichel. We need guys like Foligno helping Bedard become a pro. There is value to it. We've seen some crappy situations with teams where the don't have the vet presence and sometimes those teams get stuck.

This season we haven't had to resort to guys like Seney, Pitlick, Sanford, Megna, Tinordi, R Johnson, Entwistle, T Johnson, Katchouk, Raddysh, Zaitsev, Roos etc.. Most of those guys are really fringe NHL pedigree. We have some guys who are retreads but in general I'd say they have a better work ethic.

I don't think KD is trying to avoid being too good too fast, I think he is trying to build a team that is good for a decade rather than good for a couple seasons. They want to have the core pieces to build around before they swing for the fences. I guess for me, I just don't see the harm in being patient after ripping the team apart to restock the prospect pool. I say let him cook for a bit to see what we have.

They don't get first dibs on free agents. Plus this team is likely on a good number of players' no trade lists. It's easier when everyone wants to come here. So this team is stuck picking up salary dumps in the hopes that they regain some of their luster while here, often getting a sweetener for their troubles.

Also keep in mind that they got an exclusive negotiation window for Foligno out of the deal for Hall, and they only gave up two prospects who were not going anywhere here. There's not a lot of glory in this deal, we all know that. But there is a salary floor in this league, and one of the ways to get there is to temporarily stock the roster with vets on the decline who might be able to impart some of their hockey wisdom to the yutes. And if they're lucky, they can add a pick or a prospect on expiring contracts at the deadline.

If Hall never injured his ACL, maybe he would have added something. That's a serious injury, with a bonus of psychological hurdles even after the full rehab/recovery. Nobody was expecting another Hart campaign from him, but this was probably the worst case scenario. Did they misgauge the probability of an event like this? Who knows?

In the meantime, we have to wait for the prospects to be NHL ready. Many are not going to make it. It's a numbers game. More picks, more NHLers. In a few years, we'll know more about how well the scouts performed. And this board, if it still exists then, should be fun if there are more busts than normal.
- 333inthe3rd

Spot on. I think it's just tough on fans to wait on the rebuild, but the shortcuts often don't work out long term. I don't know if they drafted the right players, but it will be fun to find out.

Considering the amount of picks KD has left, I wouldn't rule out an RFA offer like STL did. It may not be as effective with the cap going up but still could happen.
- Chunk

That was quite a coup for the Blues. They only had to give up a 2nd and a 3rd, and the contracts were for 2 years apiece, after which they are still RFA. Even if KD and his crew see this possibility, would he have the stones to do this against his former boss?

Well if the Friedman comment is accurate about JT Miller, yes, KD is looking for help. Miller is a center though, so does Bedard move to wing?


- boilermaker100

Not really as Bedard didn't look like he actually had any idea how to play wing - and I am saying that from the perspective of seeing him still all over the ice, including and especially in the D-Zone - like what a center would do - with the upshot being he was consistently out of position, and it impacted the d-zone exits. Unless there is some magical way of tutoring 98 on what playing on the wing means - I doubt that adding another center can make that happen - 98 needs more than just that ---because you'd end up with him still mentally playing his version of center -it happened just that way earlier in the season.

Just playing devil's advocate a bit, but maybe they did. Do we need another underachieving young forward like Kakko? Was the asking price for a guy like Rossi too high? Do we need another tiny skilled guy up front when we have a lot of that in the system?

I don't know the answer really, but just throwing it out there. I think it's good debate.

I'll take a few retreads that we have right now over the "never was" guys we had last season. I mean, it's great to have younger guys with upside, but we already have a handful of those around/near the NHL roster and do we need more guys trying to find their way? Teams won't be lining up to trade us young guys who are on the right path already, those guys they keep or ask way too much for. We would be able to land the guys who need a change of scenery, so there is still some risk that they never find it.

Did maybe KD sign a couple more older vets than needed? Maybe, but we do need experienced guys too. We need guys like Maroon mentoring guys like Reichel. We need guys like Foligno helping Bedard become a pro. There is value to it. We've seen some crappy situations with teams where the don't have the vet presence and sometimes those teams get stuck.

This season we haven't had to resort to guys like Seney, Pitlick, Sanford, Megna, Tinordi, R Johnson, Entwistle, T Johnson, Katchouk, Raddysh, Zaitsev, Roos etc.. Most of those guys are really fringe NHL pedigree. We have some guys who are retreads but in general I'd say they have a better work ethic.

I don't think KD is trying to avoid being too good too fast, I think he is trying to build a team that is good for a decade rather than good for a couple seasons. They want to have the core pieces to build around before they swing for the fences. I guess for me, I just don't see the harm in being patient after ripping the team apart to restock the prospect pool. I say let him cook for a bit to see what we have.
- breadbag

I get it, and you aren't wrong. My thought was just that aside from Pool Party (I admit, I just like messing up his name), Rossi and Kakko at least produce and play a 200' game. Kakko has done most of his damage 5v5, and was only sparingly used on the PP. Rossi plays the way everyone thinks Reichel eventually can.

My problem was they already had Foligno, Hall, Donato, D!ckinson, Murphy and Jones. Adding guys like Maroon, Smith and Brodie is just putting guys in the way.

I get it, and you aren't wrong. My thought was just that aside from Pool Party (I admit, I just like messing up his name), Rossi and Kakko at least produce and play a 200' game. Kakko has done most of his damage 5v5, and was only sparingly used on the PP. Rossi plays the way everyone thinks Reichel eventually can.

My problem was they already had Foligno, Hall, Donato, D!ckinson, Murphy and Jones. Adding guys like Maroon, Smith and Brodie is just putting guys in the way.
- Chunk

I get it too and I don't think it's right or wrong, just opinion. I really value the discussion, even if I'm an argumentative pain in the butt.

I think that in some ways guys like Maroon, Smith, Brodie are meant to be obstacles and part of their job is to be in the way. Guys like Reichel, Nazar, Dach, Slaggart, Korchinski, Allan, Kaiser etc... they need guys in their way who they have to beat for the playing time. I think the coaches need to sit those guys when the young guys do beat them out. Maybe they haven't done that enough. I think it's good we've seen guys like AA and Anderson go down to the AHL.

Did KD maybe sign too many? Maybe, but he also had like half the team on the shelf part of last season, so I think he was trying to avoid having to scrape the bottom of the barrel in that possibility too. Could they upgrade on younger guys like Kurashev and Reichel as "not prospects" who are fighting for NHL jobs, probably, but I don't know if that moves the needle much.

They situation would get better if another young forward who isn't Bedard showed they were ready to be a top 6 NHL player. Nazar hasn't seized the opportunity. Kurashev has been really inconsistent. Reichel only had success so far in a limited role. The team could use a win with a young player stepping up right now on the front end. It would go a long way to help the depth.