I haven't watched any clips of Moore, but i have watched probably 5 MN games.

There are many very good players on that team.

He's had more assists than goals. His speed jumps off the screen, and again, he is on the ice with what 4 or 5 future NHL'ers at any time.

Does he have top end finishing skills, maybe not at this point, but i don't think he's Viktor Stahlberg either.

Speed to burn, never stops, strong on the boards, hard to play against guy seems like the kind you need when building a team for the future.

Many thought Sam Savoie would be the next Andrew Shaw, maybe in the end Moore's floor in Andrew Shaw.

Shaw was a very important guy on those guy cup teams.
- vabeachbear

I could see a Saad type player. Not the same size but a speed/power game. Chip in offensively. Good in all 3 zones. 20g 50pt ish guy. Moore, like Saad, not the best shot out there. Goals will come 10ft and in around the net.

He's got hands. I agree with you on not liking the Stahlberg comparison or AA.

Ryan Greene looked pretty good for BU last night. Didn't get on the score sheet but I'd like to see him get some NHL games in next season. A guy that could fit the Bolland mold at center.

Right now, at forward, the Hawks have the following 9 signed for next year:

Foligno
D!ckinson
Bertuzzi
TT
Mikheyev
Reichel
Bedard
Nazar
Slaggert

That leaves four spots open to fill. Assuming KD reels in one big FA that leaves 3 spots. I wouldn't be upset with resigning Donato and leaving the final two open for kids to battle it out.

I know they didn't want to get into the issue of having to sign guys off the scrap heap if there were injuries, but they'll have so many kids that are knocking on the door, that I think it would make sense for them to just let the kids take those spots.
- Chunk

After the TDL this list could be smaller.

That's the weird thing about college. There seem to be more "I have unfinished business" guys that want to go back for another year. Greene is one of those guys.

Your last sentence is spot on. If I only could pick one to jump to the pros between Moore and Rinzel, it would be Rinzel right now. When I look at prospects development, I look at improvement year to year. The jump Rinzel has made this year is notable, where Moore is practically the same guy. That's not to say that Moore is playing poorly or disappointing at all, but you are looking for that growth.
- Chunk

I am more than curious as to how the Hawks would like their post college season conversation goes.

Do the hawks listen to the two kid's thoughts and if they want to stay, they let them, or if the kids want to turn pro, if they think (Rinzel and/or Ollie Moore NEED more college seasoning and the hawks advocate for that.

To me, it is really a situation where signing means you keep, them, and not signing means they may decide they want to be free agents, and for two first rounders your compensation is a second rounder in the slot they were atken in the first.

Maybe, all these kids want to Bedsy's buds, and that is not in their thinking b/c they like the youth movement they see in the amount of early selected prospects.

Whatya think?


I do think Sam Rinzel has added mass, muscle and moves, and he will play pro in a 2nd pair role.

I also think Ollie Moore WILL be a good pro, but his destiny lies in how well he lights the lamp after given time to percolate. He clearly can play in the bigs, but time really decides where he helps the Indianhead.

After the TDL this list could be smaller.
- rpeters01

Reichel?

After the TDL this list could be smaller.
- rpeters01

Who from that list do you think would be moved?

I am more than curious as to how the Hawks would like their post college season conversation goes.

Do the hawks listen to the two kid's thoughts and if they want to stay, they let them, or if the kids want to turn pro, if they think (Rinzel and/or Ollie Moore NEED more college seasoning and the hawks advocate for that.

To me, it is really a situation where signing means you keep, them, and not signing means they may decide they want to be free agents, and for two first rounders your compensation is a second rounder in the slot they were atken in the first.

Maybe, all these kids want to Bedsy's buds, and that is not in their thinking b/c they like the youth movement they see in the amount of early selected prospects.

Whatya think?


I do think Sam Rinzel has added mass, muscle and moves, and he will play pro in a 2nd pair role.

I also think Ollie Moore WILL be a good pro, but his destiny lies in how well he lights the lamp after given time to percolate. He clearly can play in the bigs, but time really decides where he helps the Indianhead.
- wiz1901

I always think this gets overblown. How often do guys actually get to FA status? Everyone was concerned about Slaggert and he couldn't be happier to sign after his senior year ended.

Sure one or two guys could think about it, but how many situations around the league are going to provide a better opportunity to make the team than the Hawks?

Who from that list do you think would be moved?
- Chunk

Richardinson, Mik, I hope not Reichel. I wouldn't mind Foligno going captain or not captain. We still have one retention spot if a defenseman is not moved and used there.

Richardinson, Mik, I hope not Reichel. I wouldn't mind Foligno going captain or not captain. We still have one retention spot if a defenseman is not moved and used there.
- rpeters01

If I had to bet, I'd think that Reichel has played his way into staying for at least next year.

It's weird, I've not even considered any of the guys who aren't on expiring contracts to get traded. I don't think anyone is going to be sniffing around Foligno. D!ckinson maybe. Mikheyev is an interesting one. If Murphy was healthy and didn't have the condition, I think teams would be all over him.

Richardinson, Mik, I hope not Reichel. I wouldn't mind Foligno going captain or not captain. We still have one retention spot if a defenseman is not moved and used there.
- rpeters01

I’ve been pleasantly surprised by Mikheyev, much like Donato, his motor never stops. He’s on pace for 15 goals without power play time and he’s relentless on the PK. I’m not saying he should be part of the core, however he sets a good example for the kids with his hustle and has speed to burn. He’s probably overpaid by a couple of million dollars, however that’s not an issue at this time for the Hawks. TBH, I’d rather have him and Donato than captain asst. GM.

Richardinson, Mik, I hope not Reichel. I wouldn't mind Foligno going captain or not captain. We still have one retention spot if a defenseman is not moved and used there.
- rpeters01

I asked Reichel because I don't think the others are easy to move. The $4 mill forwards are for next year's deadline. I'm guessing Martinez gets the last retention slot this year. They will have all their retention slots after this season, unless something unexpected happens this deadline.

If Reichel gets moved, it will be for a similar situation player, or he will be part of a bigger deal, would be my guess.

Unrelated, Donato's TDL price tag should be considerably higher than it was a month ago, and they should be working to extend him. Guessing we'd all lose our minds if the return is a third.

Right now, at forward, the Hawks have the following 9 signed for next year:

Foligno
D!ckinson
Bertuzzi
TT
Mikheyev
Reichel
Bedard
Nazar
Slaggert

That leaves four spots open to fill. Assuming KD reels in one big FA that leaves 3 spots. I wouldn't be upset with resigning Donato and leaving the final two open for kids to battle it out.

I know they didn't want to get into the issue of having to sign guys off the scrap heap if there were injuries, but they'll have so many kids that are knocking on the door, that I think it would make sense for them to just let the kids take those spots.
- Chunk

Interesting....

The listed forwards are about $22m and defense and goalies are about $31m which is about $53m coming back. Fill in the defense with young guys and it is about $55m. Donato at $4m and two kids at $2m is $61m. I assume the floor is around $75m.

So $14m for free agents. Marner or Rantinen would cover that but you would still be right at the floor. I think they will have to use another spot to sign a free agent to get them safely over the cap floor - or do some real shaking things up that is hard to foresee.

Right now, at forward, the Hawks have the following 9 signed for next year:

Foligno
D!ckinson
Bertuzzi
TT
Mikheyev
Reichel
Bedard
Nazar
Slaggert

That leaves four spots open to fill. Assuming KD reels in one big FA that leaves 3 spots. I wouldn't be upset with resigning Donato and leaving the final two open for kids to battle it out.

I know they didn't want to get into the issue of having to sign guys off the scrap heap if there were injuries, but they'll have so many kids that are knocking on the door, that I think it would make sense for them to just let the kids take those spots.
- Chunk

How about 2 big FA, Donato, and Dachtor? No one else besides Dach will be NHL ready nor anyone they pick from the draft.

If I had to bet, I'd think that Reichel has played his way into staying for at least next year.

It's weird, I've not even considered any of the guys who aren't on expiring contracts to get traded. I don't think anyone is going to be sniffing around Foligno. D!ckinson maybe. Mikheyev is an interesting one. If Murphy was healthy and didn't have the condition, I think teams would be all over him.
- Chunk

Groin conditions suck. You could see a young guy packaged in a trade for a quality forward, have to give something to get something. More likely over the summer.

Right now, at forward, the Hawks have the following 9 signed for next year:

Foligno
D!ckinson
Bertuzzi
TT
Mikheyev
Reichel
Bedard
Nazar
Slaggert

That leaves four spots open to fill. Assuming KD reels in one big FA that leaves 3 spots. I wouldn't be upset with resigning Donato and leaving the final two open for kids to battle it out.

I know they didn't want to get into the issue of having to sign guys off the scrap heap if there were injuries, but they'll have so many kids that are knocking on the door, that I think it would make sense for them to just let the kids take those spots.
- Chunk

A veritable juggernaut.

A veritable juggernaut.
- rpeters01

Well, look at it this way. Ideally, you replace Kurashev with a big fish free agent (or trade), and replace Smith and Maroon with at minimum equal, but faster younger kids, and I'd say that's a notable win.

I've been harping on the method of the rebuild for the past 4 months or so, but if they are content to slow roll the return to relevance, I'm at least going to look for the wins however small they may be.

Well, look at it this way. Ideally, you replace Kurashev with a big fish free agent (or trade), and replace Smith and Maroon with at minimum equal, but faster younger kids, and I'd say that's a notable win.

I've been harping on the method of the rebuild for the past 4 months or so, but if they are content to slow roll the return to relevance, I'm at least going to look for the wins however small they may be.
- Chunk

What's your take on Nashville's approach? They had a busy summer, and they don't have anything to show for it this season. Their prospect pool is decent or mediocre, depending on who we ask. They had to pay a premium for those players, whether in money or term or both. Otherwise, the only selling point they have presently is no state income tax.

How about 2 big FA, Donato, and Dachtor? No one else besides Dach will be NHL ready nor anyone they pick from the draft.
- Assman22

Personally, I expect more changes to the vets on the team.

I think Donato is gone. Similar to Hall, I think he will welcome a chance to play for a team in contention and seems like this year he stepped up playing for his next contract and a chance to be moved to a contender.

I think if the plan was to resign him, he'd be resigned right now and there wouldn't be teams scouting and talking to the Hawks about him like it's being reported. Of course nothing is concrete, but last year when the Hawks resigned vets it was all done mid January and finished before TDL time for Mrazek, Foligno, Richardinson.

I wouldn't be paying 4 million to keep him, when his career is 20-30 point production. That's great if he is a 4th line guy making his 1.5-2 mil, but don't pay him 3rd line money. Never pay a guy for a career year IMO.

I think between now (this TDL) and next year start, we could see Mrazek, Murphy Richardinson possibly gone. One of the 3 goalies will need to be dealt probably before next season. Murphy, there has been reported interest, the injuries may be a roadblock but I don't know if it's impossible (if the Hawks retain on him for next year). Richardinson has recently been reported talking about low moral he is feeling/experiencing. I think there are some teams that wouldn't mind a good bottom 6 C that can win draws and play defensively responsible hockey.

All in all, I just think there could be less players returning next season on the vet front. I mean, let's be realistic, most vets who signed/resigned didn't stay because they want to be part of a lengthy rebuild. I think most are here because

a) They are paid well
b) They get opportunity for ice time they might not get elsewhere
c) A chance to increase their value with said opportunity and end up playing for a contender

This is all just my speculation but I think we could see a fairly different team to start next season. I could be wrong on all of it but I just think more will change than stay the same.

What's your take on Nashville's approach? They had a busy summer, and they don't have anything to show for it this season. Their prospect pool is decent or mediocre, depending on who we ask. They had to pay a premium for those players, whether in money or term or both. Otherwise, the only selling point they have presently is no state income tax.
- 333inthe3rd

Nashville is kind of a unique case. They got the first wild card spot last year. They went out and signed what was thought to be a great FA class and it just fell apart. I don't know if that is coaching, or just the pieces not fitting together well. They've historically been pretty good defensively, and their goal differential is not notably better than the Hawks. They aren't scoring at all.

The big difference is that they were a PO team and they regressed. I've been complaining since they signed Smith that they should have targeted actual NHL players that aren't just placeholders. I don't think that move the needle at all. Rossi, Kakko, and Frost are all guys that were rumored to be available at various point of the year (Rossi still may be). Those are the kinds of moves I wanted the Hawks to make. Bertuzzi and TT were good gets. I'd like KD to target one really good offensive player to get Bedard someone to really skyrocket his growth, and then add maybe another lower level "DeBrusk" type player. Otherwise, just filter in as many kids as possible, because they'll need to see what these guys bring to the table sooner rather than later.

Anyone they bring in should be playing the exact type of hockey they want to when they are good. I still think it's a major misstep that they want to ultimately play fast, relentless, forechecking hockey, and they signed a bunch of guys (Maroon, Smith, Brodie, Martinez) that take an hour to get to top speed. What was the end goal there?

Personally, I expect more changes to the vets on the team.

I think Donato is gone. Similar to Hall, I think he will welcome a chance to play for a team in contention and seems like this year he stepped up playing for his next contract and a chance to be moved to a contender.

I think if the plan was to resign him, he'd be resigned right now and there wouldn't be teams scouting and talking to the Hawks about him like it's being reported. Of course nothing is concrete, but last year when the Hawks resigned vets it was all done mid January and finished before TDL time for Mrazek, Foligno, Richardinson.

I wouldn't be paying 4 million to keep him, when his career is 20-30 point production. That's great if he is a 4th line guy making his 1.5-2 mil, but don't pay him 3rd line money. Never pay a guy for a career year IMO.

I think between now (this TDL) and next year start, we could see Mrazek, Murphy Richardinson possibly gone. One of the 3 goalies will need to be dealt probably before next season. Murphy, there has been reported interest, the injuries may be a roadblock but I don't know if it's impossible (if the Hawks retain on him for next year). Richardinson has recently been reported talking about low moral he is feeling/experiencing. I think there are some teams that wouldn't mind a good bottom 6 C that can win draws and play defensively responsible hockey.

All in all, I just think there could be less players returning next season on the vet front. I mean, let's be realistic, most vets who signed/resigned didn't stay because they want to be part of a lengthy rebuild. I think most are here because

a) They are paid well
b) They get opportunity for ice time they might not get elsewhere
c) A chance to increase their value with said opportunity and end up playing for a contender

This is all just my speculation but I think we could see a fairly different team to start next season. I could be wrong on all of it but I just think more will change than stay the same.
- breadbag

Interesting thoughts. Thanks Bread. I think what you laid out is quite a longshot, but I'd be really interested to see how it would happen. The mechanics alone would be cool.

I asked Reichel because I don't think the others are easy to move. The $4 mill forwards are for next year's deadline. I'm guessing Martinez gets the last retention slot this year. They will have all their retention slots after this season, unless something unexpected happens this deadline.

If Reichel gets moved, it will be for a similar situation player, or he will be part of a bigger deal, would be my guess.

Unrelated, Donato's TDL price tag should be considerably higher than it was a month ago, and they should be working to extend him. Guessing we'd all lose our minds if the return is a third.
- 333inthe3rd

We don't have to trade Donato and if traded, it will be to a contending low drafting team. I want a first at this point. A second is as good as a high third in this situation.

Personally, I expect more changes to the vets on the team.

I think Donato is gone. Similar to Hall, I think he will welcome a chance to play for a team in contention and seems like this year he stepped up playing for his next contract and a chance to be moved to a contender.

I think if the plan was to resign him, he'd be resigned right now and there wouldn't be teams scouting and talking to the Hawks about him like it's being reported. Of course nothing is concrete, but last year when the Hawks resigned vets it was all done mid January and finished before TDL time for Mrazek, Foligno, Richardinson.

I wouldn't be paying 4 million to keep him, when his career is 20-30 point production. That's great if he is a 4th line guy making his 1.5-2 mil, but don't pay him 3rd line money. Never pay a guy for a career year IMO.

I think between now (this TDL) and next year start, we could see Mrazek, Murphy Richardinson possibly gone. One of the 3 goalies will need to be dealt probably before next season. Murphy, there has been reported interest, the injuries may be a roadblock but I don't know if it's impossible (if the Hawks retain on him for next year). Richardinson has recently been reported talking about low moral he is feeling/experiencing. I think there are some teams that wouldn't mind a good bottom 6 C that can win draws and play defensively responsible hockey.

All in all, I just think there could be less players returning next season on the vet front. I mean, let's be realistic, most vets who signed/resigned didn't stay because they want to be part of a lengthy rebuild. I think most are here because

a) They are paid well
b) They get opportunity for ice time they might not get elsewhere
c) A chance to increase their value with said opportunity and end up playing for a contender

This is all just my speculation but I think we could see a fairly different team to start next season. I could be wrong on all of it but I just think more will change than stay the same.
- breadbag

I agree or else the tea leaves and my eight ball are wrong.

What's your take on Nashville's approach? They had a busy summer, and they don't have anything to show for it this season. Their prospect pool is decent or mediocre, depending on who we ask. They had to pay a premium for those players, whether in money or term or both. Otherwise, the only selling point they have presently is no state income tax.
- 333inthe3rd

Nashville is where we were when KD took over. Screwed. It's going to cost a lot of money and take some time to unwind their mess.

Interesting thoughts. Thanks Bread. I think what you laid out is quite a longshot, but I'd be really interested to see how it would happen. The mechanics alone would be cool.
- Chunk

It may be a long shot that all those guys are gone, but I think there is a real chance one or two would be. I'm just saying, I don't know if we pencil in everyone who is a vet as definitely still being here. I think there will be some change we didn't see coming.

We don't have to trade Donato and if traded, it will be to a contending low drafting team. I want a first at this point. A second is as good as a high third in this situation.

- rpeters01

Exactly, this is why I’d package a young Dman with him and get a decent young forward back, otherwise you might as well resign him.