Thanks Wiz. Can I ask your overall perception of Nesbit? I see you have him falling out of the 1st and he's having a strong season as a PPG player on Windsor with size. He's all over the draft rankings ranging from #16-#58 and curious what you see when he plays?
- Assman22

I am not sure if his game fits the Blackhawk drafting template. A long strider who benefited by his size in junior, he isn't a strong stop/start guy, and although he understands and competes on the entire sheet, _________ ... I was trying to describe this but I was lacking the words, but let me use a couple current Blackhawks:
I think I see MORE compete in #73 (who clearly is on the thin string as a pro), and I haven't seen any indication he is can "dive into the attack and defensive zones and quickly cover or continue on to make an impact.

Sure, with more time Jack nesbit has enough game to play soem pro games but he is a ways away from that.

I think this year is not necessarily a weak draft (as there is a strong top half dozen or so, but after that, it is like the rest of the first is pretty equal the second in terms of raffle tickets that may hit.)
Teams drafting outside the half dozen will do their work and select kids they like, but I don't think the later drafting tams are going to be go out of their way to say, "We got our guy."
I am going to say they will start looking across the pound for prospects with upside, as they have probably scouted and over-scouted the CHL here.
I think Nesbit is one of those developmental guys who takes time but you are gonna wait for it all to jell as a centre.

Well you know my theory, and everyone thinks I'm full of sh!t, but it's really hard to get a one timer off when you are playing with a noodle of a stick.

Even when he had a give and go and it came back to him point blank, as he flexed his stick for a wrister it looked to me like the blade of the stick actually popped off the ice and ended up on top of the puck.

Any time i see him try a one timer he's like a golfer and hits it fat, speaking of golf there is a reason you need to know your swing speed and get the correct flex in the shaft, he looks like some kid using grandpas golf clubs who can generate a club head speed of 110mph
- BetweenTheDots

Isn't that the technique of a slap or snap shot, hitting the ice behind the puck to get more flex in the stick?

And golfers don't care about accuracy anymore, they just hit it as far as they can, go find it and wedge it on to the green.

You could very well be onto something, but I think that's the least of his worries. How often does he even take that shot? It's kind of the problem that I'm highlighting here. Very few of his shots are with the goalie moving.

I'm praying that Lardis is able to adapt his game to the NHL because so many of his shots are quick and direct instead of complicated.

Ultimately, I don't think it will be that big of a problem. Bedard will eventually grow into a point monster. He needs help and to adapt more to NHL level opponents.
- Chunk

Lardis is a sniper and not much more. To make the NHL he has to score, no other part of his game is NHL ready and he may not be able to bring other parts of his game to that level. Obviously along with sniping he’ll need to be responsible defensively but it’s unlikely he’ll ever be a Selke candidate. Unlike many pure snipers Lardis’ skating ability is off the charts and he’s a very good play maker. But if he can’t score at the NHL level and doesn’t improve other aspects of his game he won’t make it. I think Vanacker is more NHL ready because he’s good in many more ways defensively, physically, he’s a better forechecker, backchecker and he can score.

So the question is, do the Hawks overlook Lardis’ weaknesses to gain that potential scoring ability?

I guess what I'm trying to say is the reason he doesn't take that shot is because he doesn't have the confidence to do so. I was going to bring up Lardis and glad you did, you watch his shots especially the one timers I'm sure there's some flex but not like 98s and he really does a good job of rifling those off
- BetweenTheDots

Could be, but Bedard never seems like one lacking in confidence to shoot anything.

I listened to the CHGO guys after the VAN game and they had a really good point. The Hawks aren't good enough to make "nice" plays. Put the damn puck on net. They pass up so many opportunities to make the goalie make a save it's maddening. The guys that are effective at scoring goals are doing that right now. Donato, Mikheyev, Nazar (to an extent).

Lardis is a sniper and not much more. To make the NHL he has to score, no other part of his game is NHL ready and he may not be able to bring other parts of his game to that level. Obviously along with sniping he’ll need to be responsible defensively but it’s unlikely he’ll ever be a Selke candidate. Unlike many pure snipers Lardis’ skating ability is off the charts and he’s a very good play maker. But if he can’t score at the NHL level and doesn’t improve other aspects of his game he won’t make it. I think Vanacker is more NHL ready because he’s good in many more ways defensively, physically, he’s a better forechecker, backchecker and he can score.

So the question is, do the Hawks overlook Lardis’ weaknesses to gain that potential scoring ability?
- paulr

They don't really have to. They have so many prospects they can simply say, we're taking the best ones and everyone else is going to have to beat someone out to make it on the team.

I singled out Lardis because of the main point I was trying to make about putting the GD puck on net and he is incredibly good at it.

They don't really have to. They have so many prospects they can simply say, we're taking the best ones and everyone else is going to have to beat someone out to make it on the team.

I singled out Lardis because of the main point I was trying to make about putting the GD puck on net and he is incredibly good at it.
- Chunk

But Chunk it’s not so simple. Lardis’ production is the best the CHL has seen in 15 years. Do you throw that away because he can’t check? I’m not a fan at all of one dimensional, one way players but I’m not so sure I want to see the Hawks give up on that potential because the guy isn’t strong in other aspects of the game.

Another thing is Lardis may be one of those guys who won’t be able to produce in the AHL because he doesn’t have the team to get him pucks when he’s in position to score. He may be one of those guys who can have NHL success without having success in the AHL.

Unless Lardis can improve other parts of his game I think he will be the most difficult decision KD will wind up making.

I singled out Lardis because of the main point I was trying to make about putting the GD puck on net and he is incredibly good at it.
- Chunk

Lardis is incredibly good at finding open spots to weasel into and hope the puck finds his stick before a defender finds it or him. Glad to see paulie coming around on how overrated Lardis is currently as his game just isn't going to transition to the pros unless he makes some adaptations. Remember the list of all those other former OHLers that had huge scoring years? Half were busts in the pros. I get some fanboys are tryna find something/anything positive within the organization to get excited about but please pump the brakes on Lardis til we see him in Rockford.

But Chunk it’s not so simple. Lardis’ production is the best the CHL has seen in 15 years. Do you throw that away because he can’t check? I’m not a fan at all of one dimensional, one way players but I’m not so sure I want to see the Hawks give up on that potential because the guy isn’t strong in other aspects of the game.

Another thing is Lardis may be one of those guys who won’t be able to produce in the AHL because he doesn’t have the team to get him pucks when he’s in position to score. He may be one of those guys who can have NHL success without having success in the AHL.

Unless Lardis can improve other parts of his game I think he will be the most difficult decision KD will wind up making.
- paulr

"Hold my beer"


I'm not saying give up on him. I'm saying he'll have to earn his spot. That likely means: First, establishing that he can produce at the higher levels (AHL/NHL). Second, be more of a net benefit than detriment. Finally, continually add new aspects to his game.

Goal scoring is always wanted/needed/pursued. The fact that is his most prominent skill is great for him and will give him a lot of rope with the club. At the end of the day, if you score one goal but are responsible for two or three against, then you'll have a tough time making the team. Part of that is the rest of the talent on the team. Patrick Kane is +3 for his career. I don't think anyone (except maybe JJ) wouldn't want Kane during the cup years. He's never been "good" defensively but produced enough to overcome his shortcomings.

For the record, I'm with you on Vanacker and think that was a great get for KD. His work on the backcheck is something to behold.

Lardis is a sniper and not much more. To make the NHL he has to score, no other part of his game is NHL ready and he may not be able to bring other parts of his game to that level. Obviously along with sniping he’ll need to be responsible defensively but it’s unlikely he’ll ever be a Selke candidate. Unlike many pure snipers Lardis’ skating ability is off the charts and he’s a very good play maker. But if he can’t score at the NHL level and doesn’t improve other aspects of his game he won’t make it. I think Vanacker is more NHL ready because he’s good in many more ways defensively, physically, he’s a better forechecker, backchecker and he can score.

So the question is, do the Hawks overlook Lardis’ weaknesses to gain that potential scoring ability?
- paulr

I've seen that guy before somebody called him "Hossa light" Dominik Kubalik no thanks.

I like this better than D!ckinson up there.

Blackhawks lines at practice, via
@GregBoysen


Donato-Nazar-Bedard
Teravainen-Richardinson-Mikheyev
Slaggert-Foligno-Dach
Maroon-Reichel-Bertuzzi

Vlasic-Levshunov
Del Mastro-Murphy
Kaiser-Martinez

I've seen that guy before somebody called him "Hossa light" Dominik Kubalik no thanks.
- rpeters01

What are you talking about? Who called who Hossa light? Vanacker yes potentially but Lardis no and no one has said that.

What are you talking about? Who called who Hossa light? Vanacker yes potentially but Lardis no and no one has said that.
- paulr

Guessing he is referring to Lardis being described as all offense and no defense. As I complain about ad nauseum, can we please let these kids actually develop before labeling them as anything (L1, bust, great, crap, whatever).

What are you talking about? Who called who Hossa light? Vanacker yes potentially but Lardis no and no one has said that.
- paulr

Somebody here called Kubalik Hossa light back in 2019... Settle down Francis.

Somebody here called Kubalik Hossa light back in 2019... Settle down Francis.
- rpeters01

As I said “what are you talking about “. No one was talking about Kubalik, we’ve been discussing Lardis and Vanacker. Get with the program.

"Hold my beer"


I'm not saying give up on him. I'm saying he'll have to earn his spot. That likely means: First, establishing that he can produce at the higher levels (AHL/NHL). Second, be more of a net benefit than detriment. Finally, continually add new aspects to his game.

Goal scoring is always wanted/needed/pursued. The fact that is his most prominent skill is great for him and will give him a lot of rope with the club. At the end of the day, if you score one goal but are responsible for two or three against, then you'll have a tough time making the team. Part of that is the rest of the talent on the team. Patrick Kane is +3 for his career. I don't think anyone (except maybe JJ) wouldn't want Kane during the cup years. He's never been "good" defensively but produced enough to overcome his shortcomings.

For the record, I'm with you on Vanacker and think that was a great get for KD. His work on the backcheck is something to behold.
- Chunk

Definitely Laris will get his chance to make the team and potentially become a Hawk. This story isn't written and while he "may" have shortcomings in his game, those things aren't well understood until he actually plays some pro hockey. Until the NHL coaches work with him more.

People can watch him play in the OHL and get a sense for where his game projects, but those things are not 100%. Where he develops his game is not set in stone. He is still learning, he seems to be pretty damn athletic and a lot of what he needs can be taught. Some things might not fall into place until year 2 or 3 in the NHL either. We simply won't know at this point. We might have a general idea of probability, but it's never a given and even then, does the good outweigh the bad?

Kane is a great example, he has been for his entire career a slightly below average defensive player, mostly because he cheats to the offensive side of the puck and often doesn't have the commitment to the defensive side. That is of course minimized by his offensive production and the fact he is a winger, and carries a lighter defensive assignment.

Somebody here called Kubalik Hossa light back in 2019... Settle down Francis.
- rpeters01

Kubalik was a bit of a tale of two players. Sometimes he had some qualities that made him a bit of a Hossa lite, but he couldn't maintain it. Streaky guy who lacked consistency. He never had the talent of Hossa or the work ethic to put it all together, but the guy did have some moments where he filled a role in the Hawks lineup that let him partially fill the gap left by Hossa, but obviously not to the same level or effectiveness/completeness. I think calling anyone "Hossa Lite" is a simplification. People used to call Saad that, and it was never exactly true, but there were some boxes he checked that fit into the Hossa mold, but unlikely we'll see another Hossa for the Hawks in our lifetime, he was unique.

I like this better than D!ckinson up there.

Blackhawks lines at practice, via
@GregBoysen


Donato-Nazar-Bedard
Teravainen-Richardinson-Mikheyev
Slaggert-Foligno-Dach
Maroon-Reichel-Bertuzzi

Vlasic-Levshunov
Del Mastro-Murphy
Kaiser-Martinez
- Chunk

So why split up the one line that has scored consistently lately (Donato-TT- Mikhayev)

Why not leave Bedard - Nazar- Dach together for more than a game to see if they can develop some chemistry that could possibly carry over until next year?

So why split up the one line that has scored consistently lately (Donato-TT- Mikhayev)

Why not leave Bedard - Nazar- Dach together for more than a game to see if they can develop some chemistry that could possibly carry over until next year?
- LAHawk

Exactly. There aren’t many other objectives left this season. Let’s see if Bedard, Dach and Nazar can develop some chemistry. I think whoever plays with Bedard will need lots of time to understand and adapt to how Bedard plays. I think Nazar has the hockey sense to figure it out.

Exactly. There aren’t many other objectives left this season. Let’s see if Bedard, Dach and Nazar can develop some chemistry. I think whoever plays with Bedard will need lots of time to understand and adapt to how Bedard plays. I think Nazar has the hockey sense to figure it out.
- paulr

The only argument that I have against keeping the kid line together is that they can ingrain poor habits that aren't really going to work at the NHL level. I'd prefer to have at least one guy on the line who has more experience in the league to get the whole line playing as a unit and properly positioning and covering for each other.

Aside from that, yeah, try and get some continuity. Anders changes things up after a win though, so it's not really surprising. Interesting that Veleno came out. Maybe giving him a chance to watch for a game or two, but what is Maroon going to provide for the last few games here?

Hopefully we hear about a Dom James signing in the next few days.

The only argument that I have against keeping the kid line together is that they can ingrain poor habits that aren't really going to work at the NHL level. I'd prefer to have at least one guy on the line who has more experience in the league to get the whole line playing as a unit and properly positioning and covering for each other.

Aside from that, yeah, try and get some continuity. Anders changes things up after a win though, so it's not really surprising. Interesting that Veleno came out. Maybe giving him a chance to watch for a game or two, but what is Maroon going to provide for the last few games here?

Hopefully we hear about a Dom James signing in the next few days.
- Chunk

I think too, Anders Sorensen might not only be thinking about long term development, but trying to earn the HC job going into next season. I'm not judging if he is making the right or wrong choice but he will probably do whatever he can to try to scrape together wins.

It wouldn't surprise me if KD has a number in his head, like if Sorensen gets "this many points or wins" out of the group, he deserves to keep going at Head Coach. There is probably an expectation in terms of results that is known between the GM and the Coach, at least in general terms if not explicitly stated.

But Chunk it’s not so simple. Lardis’ production is the best the CHL has seen in 15 years. Do you throw that away because he can’t check? I’m not a fan at all of one dimensional, one way players but I’m not so sure I want to see the Hawks give up on that potential because the guy isn’t strong in other aspects of the game.

Another thing is Lardis may be one of those guys who won’t be able to produce in the AHL because he doesn’t have the team to get him pucks when he’s in position to score. He may be one of those guys who can have NHL success without having success in the AHL.

Unless Lardis can improve other parts of his game I think he will be the most difficult decision KD will wind up making.
- paulr

No matter what era of play, the NHL has ALWAYS allowed scorers a ton of leeway for their defensive deciciencies. We could start with Bobby Hull, but since he was an Arty-type bull out there, it doesn't fit Lardis build or possible impact IF said player decides to "help out" with their body check, poke check, wall work, etc.

Not really falling too far from that tree, the last couplke games I saw Connor bedard manhandled a lot with no class on the perps...but the the smaller builded guys have the option of the weight room adding strength as "defensive zone involvement" is going to be asked of even the Bedards, and of course Lardis.
It's difficult to separate the allure and strengt of his shot, but unless he walsk in scoring a goal a game, no coach is handing him top line minutes, so he falls into that same pit that #73 hasn't been able to remove himself. AS an eventual new pro, he plays bottom 6 and IF he can survive that is his high water point.
The thing is the shot is really something, so there is plenty more to work with.
Vanaker will get back pucks where ever he slots.
But the guys in the lower half of the lines NEED to show their abilty to score well too.
So, it really becomes a debate as to what helps you win, right?


.

The only argument that I have against keeping the kid line together is that they can ingrain poor habits that aren't really going to work at the NHL level. I'd prefer to have at least one guy on the line who has more experience in the league to get the whole line playing as a unit and properly positioning and covering for each other.

Aside from that, yeah, try and get some continuity. Anders changes things up after a win though, so it's not really surprising. Interesting that Veleno came out. Maybe giving him a chance to watch for a game or two, but what is Maroon going to provide for the last few games here?
Hopefully we hear about a Dom James signing in the next few days.
- Chunk

Maroon is a waste at this point. I'd like to see Teuvo up with Bedard and Nazar, Teuvo is not the biggest guy, however he is responsible defensively and so is Nazar. By the way, besides Bedard, they're also the most offensively gifted forwards on the team.

The only argument that I have against keeping the kid line together is that they can ingrain poor habits that aren't really going to work at the NHL level. .
- Chunk

I am certain the Hawk staff breaks down the shifts on video.

I will say this. on Dach.
I was the one advocating StanBo to draft him in the second.
I figured he was filled with incentive to continue working hard to improve (including the hitch in his skating.) In Rockford, the skating issues showed.
In the call up, Dach's skating issues showed.
He was unimpressive, unable to grasp HOW he could play.

I am sure the coaching staff did a great job of defining his role to him. (He no longer was an AHL top line contributer, and was making no impact in the NHL.

He really has adapted w/o losing focus as to what he is, and even his upside.

Maybe it just me but with loss after loss, I look at the lines, coaching decisions as if their based on a balance of wanting to win, but in the games we see all different guys in what seems peculiar lien combso, but I just wonder if they are trying to get strong competitive matchs for their kids to see them against guys that are better.

Anyway I think Dach is a keeper now.


I have not felt that way about Reichel, who skates and handles at with a
higher requirements than Dacher but he just hasn't filled the expectations they havce for him.

did that make sense?

I think too, Anders Sorensen might not only be thinking about long term development, but trying to earn the HC job going into next season. I'm not judging if he is making the right or wrong choice but he will probably do whatever he can to try to scrape together wins.

It wouldn't surprise me if KD has a number in his head, like if Sorensen gets "this many points or wins" out of the group, he deserves to keep going at Head Coach. There is probably an expectation in terms of results that is known between the GM and the Coach, at least in general terms if not explicitly stated.
- breadbag

Unless he somehow wins out, I would be absolutely amazed if Anders has a shot at being the HC next year. Nothing against him really, but he's just not able to connect with these players and get them to remotely follow a structure. Couldn't do it with vets, and can't do it with largely kids in the lineup.

I am certain the Hawk staff breaks down the shifts on video.

I will say this. on Dach.
I was the one advocating StanBo to draft him in the second.
I figured he was filled with incentive to continue working hard to improve (including the hitch in his skating.) In Rockford, the skating issues showed.
In the call up, Dach's skating issues showed.
He was unimpressive, unable to grasp HOW he could play.

I am sure the coaching staff did a great job of defining his role to him. (He no longer was an AHL top line contributer, and was making no impact in the NHL.

He really has adapted w/o losing focus as to what he is, and even his upside.

Maybe it just me but with loss after loss, I look at the lines, coaching decisions as if their based on a balance of wanting to win, but in the games we see all different guys in what seems peculiar lien combso, but I just wonder if they are trying to get strong competitive matchs for their kids to see them against guys that are better.

Anyway I think Dach is a keeper now.


I have not felt that way about Reichel, who skates and handles at with a
higher requirements than Dacher but he just hasn't filled the expectations they havce for him.

did that make sense?
- wiz1901

Thanks for the info Wiz. I'm not sure what to make of Dach. Is there a real deficiency, or is he simply just another kid that will take time to make it in the NHL?

From what I see, Reichel is done on this team. He's given plenty of teases, but he simply never puts together the consistency to do it in the NHL. You can only yell at the kid to do what you want so many times. Lukas can't figure it out playing for the same coach he seemed to thrive under in Rockford. If he's not going to be able to perform the way he's asked, then he's gone. They've asked him to play inside and shoot more often among other things and he keeps doing the same thing.