But doesn't this also show an anticipation of what the Hawks are building, i believe Knight, Arty were with the team, youth movement actually exciting fans
- BetweenTheDots

You mean like how exciting the outdoor game was?

Didn't JC go like 1-13 to start the season, who you crapping

The 4 years before they started the rebuild didn't help either because they were being the Red Wings stuck in not making the playoffs and not getting a top 5 pick.

And if you look at the Ducks it took them 6 years to get to 80 points, so KD only gets 3, got it.

I had to look it up JC to start that season 1-11
- BetweenTheDots

2 GM's start at the same time, one is at it 6 years, the other 3, got it.

Looks like Tocchet is going to Philly, I’d rather have Woodcroft for the Hawks.

But doesn't this also show an anticipation of what the Hawks are building, i believe Knight, Arty were with the team, youth movement actually exciting fans
- BetweenTheDots

People were excited about Bedard... for a year. Then they realized the team still sucked and the numbers went down. You can't just highlight the fact that they topped 20K a few times at the end of the year and ignore that they were below 17K more times than that, and dropped from the previous year.

Novelty wears off. Results keep people coming. You can't simply count on people believing in your plan, if it doesn't result in winning.

Hawks had Dach, Hagel, DeBrinkat, but KD decided to trade them away.
- LAHawk

Glad he did. The rebuild was needed and building around them wasn't going to result in a team setup for long term success. The hope is that KD is building a team that will go deep often and avoid the mediocre first round exits that plague the pretenders of the league.

2 GM's start at the same time, one is at it 6 years, the other 3, got it.
- LAHawk

Hmmmm let me try something
Blackhawks in that prior 3 year span
Picked 3, 17, 32, 43, 46, 62
Ducks, 3, 6, 9, 27, 29 and 34
Gee I'm shocked the Ducks are better

Hmmmm let me try something
Blackhawks in that prior 3 year span
Picked 3, 17, 32, 43, 46, 62
Ducks, 3, 6, 9, 27, 29 and 34
Gee I'm shocked the Ducks are better
- BetweenTheDots

According to Steve from Mopeville the Hawks can do nothing right. According to you the Hawks can do no wrong. Don’t you think the real scenario is somewhere in the middle?

Hawks had Dach, Hagel, DeBrinkat, but KD decided to trade them away.
- LAHawk

So, do you think the roster would be better a in a year or two had he kept with that path, or the current path.

My assumption, this is where the two sides of this chat space are in disagreement.

I say current path was a much better decision, than the one keeping those guys you mention.

People were excited about Bedard... for a year. Then they realized the team still sucked and the numbers went down. You can't just highlight the fact that they topped 20K a few times at the end of the year and ignore that they were below 17K more times than that, and dropped from the previous year.

Novelty wears off. Results keep people coming. You can't simply count on people believing in your plan, if it doesn't result in winning.
- Chunk

The TV deal was handled poorly but otherwise this is pretty much the norm with a rebuild like this. The Hawks brass (unless they are completely brain dead) would expect dips and would have understood that this is going to happen. They would understand the team isn't going to go from tank to win in a heartbeat. The Hawks weather it pretty well compared to some markets, so I doubt they are too worried, as they know once the team is back to competitive, they will have fans coming in droves to watch. The average attendance was around 19K and still better than many teams.

They do need to continue to make progress and yes those will have to start showing more in the standings.

So, do you think the roster would be better a in a year or two had he kept with that path, or the current path.

My assumption, this is where the two sides of this chat space are in disagreement.

I say current path was a much better decision, than the one keeping those guys you mention.
- vabeachbear

Not assuming anything. But the comment was that the Ducks had young players already on the roster. But so did the Hawks. Verbeek kept his, KD did not, they chose different paths.

Hmmmm let me try something
Blackhawks in that prior 3 year span
Picked 3, 17, 32, 43, 46, 62
Ducks, 3, 6, 9, 27, 29 and 34
Gee I'm shocked the Ducks are better
- BetweenTheDots

Uh, who were picked with those choices...?
Ducks:
3: McTavish
6: Drysdale (Traded for Gauthier)
9: Zegras (meh)
27: J. Perrault (AHL/ECHL)
29: B. Tracey (drafted in 2020 now overseas)

Hawks:
3: Dach (Traded for two draft picks)
17: Reichel (although, don't get me started on who was still on the board)
32: Allan (ok)
43: Vlasic (Better than anything ANA has drafted outside of maybe Lacombe)
46: Commesso (goalies take time)
62: Other Dach (meh)

Each team has one high end player (McTavish and Vlasic), and a few mediocre or inconsequential players at this point in time. Do these selections (that you specifically pointed out) put ANA that much further ahead of the Hawks? If Dach were traded for a useful young player (like Drysdale for Gauthier) would that put the Hawks further ahead?

According to Steve from Mopeville the Hawks can do nothing right. According to you the Hawks can do no wrong. Don’t you think the real scenario is somewhere in the middle?
- paulr

I won't argue signing TJ Brodie was the right thing, sure he's made mistakes but the way he's going about the rebuild is excellent.

He's also not putting himself in a corner with any of the mistakes he's making. They are short contracts. I'm not a big fan of Bertuzzi but he's a serviceable forward and hopefully he ends to fighting for ice time.

The TV deal was handled poorly but otherwise this is pretty much the norm with a rebuild like this. The Hawks brass (unless they are completely brain dead) would expect dips and would have understood that this is going to happen. They would understand the team isn't going to go from tank to win in a heartbeat. The Hawks weather it pretty well compared to some markets, so I doubt they are too worried, as they know once the team is back to competitive, they will have fans coming in droves to watch. The average attendance was around 19K and still better than many teams.

They do need to continue to make progress and yes those will have to start showing more in the standings.
- breadbag

This is literally the only point I am making. Dots said the only way KD is in trouble is if they drop below the 61 pts they scored this year. I don't think that is remotely realistic. If they can't get ten more points over last year, I think KD's in a world of hurt.

Uh, who were picked with those choices...?
Ducks:
3: McTavish
6: Drysdale (Traded for Gauthier)
9: Zegras (meh)
27: J. Perrault (AHL/ECHL)
29: B. Tracey (drafted in 2020 now overseas)

Hawks:
3: Dach (Traded for two draft picks)
17: Reichel (although, don't get me started on who was still on the board)
32: Allan (ok)
43: Vlasic (Better than anything ANA has drafted outside of maybe Lacombe)
46: Commesso (goalies take time)
62: Other Dach (meh)

Each team has one high end player (McTavish and Vlasic), and a few mediocre or inconsequential players at this point in time. Do these selections (that you specifically pointed out) put ANA that much further ahead of the Hawks? If Dach were traded for a useful young player (like Drysdale for Gauthier) would that put the Hawks further ahead?
- Chunk

But they had Drysdale to trade for Cutter, it was a great deal for them.

D take longer to develop and the other thing is we had no 1st round picks in the 22 draft because of the Jones trade so he traded away young assets to get them. In 22 the Ducks didn't have to make that kind of move and drafted 10 and 22nd OA

I guess I'm just spinning my wheels here.

Bowman was let go in October of that year because of the Beach fiasco, and KD came in and decided he was going to tank it immediately, by bringing in King as an interim and telling him not to change anything Colliton had put in place, and starting to rip it down by trading Hagel at the deadline.

So when management doesn't care to try and win games, guess what you get?

EDIT: Anaheim improves by 21 points last year, and they bring in Q. Verbeek was hired as GM the same time Davidson was hired asthe permanent GM by the Hawks.
- LAHawk

Wasn't Hagel traded the next season?

So, do you think the roster would be better a in a year or two had he kept with that path, or the current path.

My assumption, this is where the two sides of this chat space are in disagreement.

I say current path was a much better decision, than the one keeping those guys you mention.
- vabeachbear

Dinky for all his scoring, I'm still waiting for his 50 goal potential, has never made the playoffs anywhere.

But they had Drysdale to trade for Cutter, it was a great deal for them.

D take longer to develop and the other thing is we had no 1st round picks in the 22 draft because of the Jones trade so he traded away young assets to get them. In 22 the Ducks didn't have to make that kind of move and drafted 10 and 22nd OA

I guess I'm just spinning my wheels here.
- BetweenTheDots

The Hawks had Dach and Debrincat and traded them strictly for draft picks. No young roster players came back.

How do you continue to miss (or willfully ignore) the point? You brought up that the higher draft picks the Ducks had in the three years prior set them up better than the Hawks to put them in the position they currently are in. When you look at who was taken with those picks, does it really look like any advantage?

The TV deal was handled poorly but otherwise this is pretty much the norm with a rebuild like this. The Hawks brass (unless they are completely brain dead) would expect dips and would have understood that this is going to happen. They would understand the team isn't going to go from tank to win in a heartbeat. The Hawks weather it pretty well compared to some markets, so I doubt they are too worried, as they know once the team is back to competitive, they will have fans coming in droves to watch. The average attendance was around 19K and still better than many teams.

They do need to continue to make progress and yes those will have to start showing more in the standings.
- breadbag

They're stuck where progress is losing by a lesser margin, but doesn't move the needle in the standings.

Wasn't Hagel traded the next season?
- rpeters01

The Brandon Hagel trade from the Chicago Blackhawks to the Tampa Bay Lightning occurred on March 18, 2022, trade deadline of that season.

Vancouver hiring Adam Foote for their HC? Tocchet likely to Philly, leaves SEA, PIT, BOS and CHI looking.

The Hawks had Dach and Debrincat and traded them strictly for draft picks. No young roster players came back.

How do you continue to miss (or willfully ignore) the point? You brought up that the higher draft picks the Ducks had in the three years prior set them up better than the Hawks to put them in the position they currently are in. When you look at who was taken with those picks, does it really look like any advantage?
- Chunk

Those players and I'm including Cutter had a 150 points

Blackhawks 67 points even if you throw Frankie in there another 26, 93 points that's a big difference

Blackhawks were a minus 70 this year, Ducks minus 42

PER EK Today:

One thing I can say right now is that we are in for one hell of a summer.

There is a major rumor afloat. I just got off the phone with a source very familiar with the situation at hand. He told me there are at least two major players, playing right now still in the playoffs, who are almost certainly% going to be traded before the draft in a blockbuster deal that will be the news of the year.

He went on to say that the players are even aware of the situation, and not unhappy about it, but of course, right now they are focused on winning the Stanley Cup for their teams.

Some of my most important sources, and relationships in the hockey world. are with the players themselves. They know they can trust me and they talk to me freely because I am fair… They know I have a job to do, but they also know that I’m not gonna just throw their names out there, even if a team is floating it to try to find interest. I don’t write players are being shopped, but rather write about teams that are interested in a player…. that’s a big difference to them.

I also don’t discuss trades while players are still playing in the playoffs. I won’t put details out right now as to who is involved, but trust me it’s not who you’d expect and it’s completely going to be game changing for several teams should it come to fruition.

Those players and I'm including Cutter had a 150 points

Blackhawks 67 points even if you throw Frankie in there another 26, 93 points that's a big difference

Blackhawks were a minus 70 this year, Ducks minus 42
- BetweenTheDots

KD made three trades before/during that first draft.

Dach - for picks
Mrazek - for picks
ADB - for picks.

If he adds a single notable player (or hell, just doesn't trade ADB) instead of trading just for picks, he adds/keeps a useful piece that notably shrinks that difference, and he still has tons of picks.

Again: YOUR argument was that ANA's picks in the three previous years set them up better than the Hawks. I'm saying that those picks did very little to set the two teams apart. I don't necessarily mind the tear completely down and rebuild, but KD certainly could have done some things differently to provide a better structure for young kids to build upon.

Edit: Sorry, that is a bad argument on my part. Your argument was about what actually happened, and I threw a theoretical in.

I still don't think those differences add up to a 19 point difference, but I made a bad argument in this instance.

KD made three trades before/during that first draft.

Dach - for picks
Mrazek - for picks
ADB - for picks.

If he adds a single notable player (or hell, just doesn't trade ADB) instead of trading just for picks, he adds/keeps a useful piece that notably shrinks that difference, and he still has tons of picks.

Again: YOUR argument was that ANA's picks in the three previous years set them up better than the Hawks. I'm saying that those picks did very little to set the two teams apart. I don't necessarily mind the tear completely down and rebuild, but KD certainly could have done some things differently to provide a better structure for young kids to build upon.

Edit: Sorry, that is a bad argument on my part. Your argument was about what actually happened, and I threw a theoretical in.

I still don't think those differences add up to a 19 point difference, but I made a bad argument in this instance.
- Chunk

Plus didn't the Hawks win the Grand Prize game by getting the generational talent ? Doesn't that trump all (small t not Capital T)

This is literally the only point I am making. Dots said the only way KD is in trouble is if they drop below the 61 pts they scored this year. I don't think that is remotely realistic. If they can't get ten more points over last year, I think KD's in a world of hurt.
- Chunk

Fair enough. I do think they should be expected to be in that 70+ points range. 80+ points would be great, but I do think 70 points is the absolutely floor for next year.

I think something like his is reasonable.
Less than 70 points, KD job very much at risk.
More than 70 points, KD job probably okay, depends on how things go personnel.
80+ points, KD has nothing to worry about for now.