Knies played with a 100+ point setup man and arguably the most talented goal scorer in the NHL (at least this generation) and barely cracked the top 100 for scoring. He is a fine player, but seems to be way more of a complimentary piece than a star. Does he top out as a 50-60 point guy?

Yea pretty high

A raise you a question

Is Knies a core player on the Leafs
- BetweenTheDots

Yes, and would be on the Hawks, maybe their top 2 or 3 guys.

Would you say similar to what people hope Martone will be or does Martone have more skill but isn’t as physical?
- HawkintheD

Not sure have only read stuff on Martone. Liked Knies when he was a gopher.

Knies played with a 100+ point setup man and arguably the most talented goal scorer in the NHL (at least this generation) and barely cracked the top 100 for scoring. He is a fine player, but seems to be way more of a complimentary piece than a star. Does he top out as a 50-60 point guy?
- breadbag

He is 22 and potted 29 in 78 games in his 2nd season. Along with 180 plus hits. That’s Tkachuk like production. 24 at even strength.

If we got Frondell. Think most would be really happy if he was a 60-70pt guy.

Yes, and would be on the Hawks, maybe their top 2 or 3 guys.
- vabeachbear

Right now? He would be the Hawks best player.

Knies played with a 100+ point setup man and arguably the most talented goal scorer in the NHL (at least this generation) and barely cracked the top 100 for scoring. He is a fine player, but seems to be way more of a complimentary piece than a star. Does he top out as a 50-60 point guy?
- breadbag

This is my big concern with Knies. Granted, you could put him with Bedard and Nazar, and he might have a similar year. Of course, that would mean we really load up our top line, and then have 3 third/fourth lines for a couple years.

Right now? He would be the Hawks best player.
- bhawks2241

He would make Bedard better also.

As Paul said, Leafs would never do it.

Would you do #3 and #25 for him?

Would you say similar to what people hope Martone will be or does Martone have more skill but isn’t as physical?
- HawkintheD

Knies is a much better skater and is more of a true power forward. I think Martone's skating is fine and can be improved with some work. Martone may grow into more of power forward but he brings a different set of skills than Knies.

Coming up on 500 pages

Yo Chunk, why aren't you making this post? You know the NHL rosters a helluva lot better than me these days.

First thought about moving the #3 to PIT was as I short term memory loss remember PIT having the most barren system in hockey, but I had to have a look see at the system expecting nuttin.

But no, Rutger McGroarty!! 21 yrs old and my first thought is this guy plays like Kniess (knock the bastard down with skill to do something about pucks won). Same sizeish, is a blue blood outa The Program and went 14th overall... He'll be a big leaguer next yr and is the crown jewel of their system. https://www.eliteprospect...r/526095/rutger-mcgroarty

Of course that ain't enough but PIT has the 11th this yr to add . I'm very partial to a few guys that might/will be had there (my mock/rankings looks closer to Wiz' than it ever has).

In no particular order guys I like a lot around there are Mrtka, Aitchens, Lakovic, Carter Bear and might absolutely love the Carbonneau kid. Mrtka would be a grand slam ........ And like the world I like Spence at #25.

What if KD has a valued scout beating the table for an Aitchesen, Carbonneau or Lakovic?.... How'd you like to come outa the 1st rd with what looks to be an impactful top 6 rugged with good size winger in McGroarty at 21 yrs old to skate with Bedard this yr, a pretty rugged and skilled centerman in Carbonneau (lotta intangibles AND production) and Spence for Martone/Hagens?Desnoyers/Frondell?

And/or use the 11th and 25th to move to 8 for McQueen or Martin????? Come outa the 1st with McGroarty and Martin or McQueen for Hagens?

This is interesting understanding I have both feet in the McGroarty camp and what's in it for PIT? What they may see as a more important position top 6er in Hagens, Frondell or Desnoyers!!

Or the 3rd this yr for PIT's 11th and PIT's 1st rd pick next yr giving the hawks 2 lottery tickets for the McKenna sweepstakes!!!

This proposal is at the very least very very interesting.

He would make Bedard better also.

As Paul said, Leafs would never do it.

Would you do #3 and #25 for him?
- vabeachbear

Ah that is making it a bit tougher. I think the Hawks need a few more lotto tickets for forwards. Especially since we really have no idea what Bedard's ceiling will be. If he comes into next more explosive and dynamic that might change my answer lol.

Right now? He would be the Hawks best player.
- bhawks2241

But we aren't talking right now, we are talking core player, and i am on the fence.

I bring up Saad because many thought he was going to take off,, and he basically stayed the same, if Knies was Blackhawk property no brainer you sign him to a RFA contract, but he's not and i think he's a player who needs playmakers to succeed.

I

What's crazy to me is with all that star power in Toronto Knies scores 58 points and everyone is over the hill on this kid, yes i know he big physical man that all the old school hockey fans love, then there's lonely scrawny Bedard who scored 61 and 67 points as a fricking teenager and had to go up against the best defensive pairings night in and night out, refs looking the other way most nights. I can't believe how good this kid is. Now he's working on being a better skater.

I like Knies as a hockey player and I'm sure Verbeek does as well but i can't give up the third 3rd OA if I'm on the fence if he's a core player or not.

I believe Frondell will be better than him and as physical

What's crazy to me is with all that star power in Toronto Knies scores 58 points and everyone is over the hill on this kid, yes i know he big physical man that all the old school hockey fans love, then there's lonely scrawny Bedard who scored 61 and 67 points as a fricking teenager and had to go up against the best defensive pairings night in and night out, refs looking the other way most nights. I can't believe how good this kid is. Now he's working on being a better skater.

I like Knies as a hockey player and I'm sure Verbeek does as well but i can't give up the third 3rd OA if I'm on the fence if he's a core player or not.

I believe Frondell will be better than him and as physical
- BetweenTheDots

All legit points. If Knies is a 30 30 consistent power forward with 180 hits a season that’s a core piece. He is only 22 so there is risk there giving up 3rd OA and he played with elite talent. I do like 24 even strength goals though.

Yes, and would be on the Hawks, maybe their top 2 or 3 guys.
- vabeachbear

3rd overall to to Toronto for knies and 2027 or 2028 1st. Knies is proven and is exactly what Hawks and could pay him. Toronto cup aspirations is closed in my opinion they lose marner lose Taveres far apart on negotiations with knies camp now would be the Time to strike. Big question would Toronto be open to it.

Marner’s deal is on him. He’s one of the highest paid players in hockey, he wants to be paid higher and in 12 playoff rounds in nine years he wasn’t once the best leaf player in any of those 12 rounds. If Chicago sign Marner and make the playoffs and he bombs, Leaf fans will be rubbing our noses in it.
- paulr

Seems like Leaf players do pretty well when they get out of Toronto.

Would you say similar to what people hope Martone will be or does Martone have more skill but isn’t as physical?
- HawkintheD

From what I have read seems that the knock on Martone is the skating speed/skill....and in todays game skating speed is a must. Even depth guys who can motor are gems on cup contenders. I like Martone a LOT and would be a nice fit for Bedard to go retrieve and take up space in front/around the net.

I hope they get Misa, but would be OK with Frondell....I don't want Hagens.

I would love to pry Knies away from the Leafs and in their messed up cap world maybe having a cost controlled high end young player (3rd overall)+ more draft capital would be at least worthy of them NOT hanging up on KD...draft capital in addition of the 3rd could help them come deadline time to add.....but with Marner leaving, I don't see it happening. Especially if they push Reilly out the door as well.

If there are picks to be had in the top 10, why not take Toronto's 1st+Hawks or Florida's 1st+some combo of 2nds or 3rds and go for quality over quantity. Imagine getting Misa or Frondell + Martone. you get 2 projected top 3 Fs on top of Bedard of Nazar and You still likely have at least 1st next year.

If you can't pry away top 3 or top 6 young Fs like the kid who went to Buffalo because teams want NHL ready fs (which you can't trade) why not go after high end draft picks and consolidate things? This is also assuming you trust your hockey ops/scouts enough to make a bold move.....at some point hording draft picks here has to start coming to an end as seems you have your goalie (Knight+ commesso) you have a LOT of young D men coming and/or ready....you have some young Fs in Dach, Bedard, Nazar, Moore, Lardis about to be NHL ready plus others still coming.....You add Misa or Frondell + Martone or another top F, and now you have a lot more margin for error AND cost controlled young kids.....

If Kd was willing to trade back into the top 10 last year to get that kid Montreal landed as a steal, why not see if Utah would be willing to move #4......look at how well that worked for the Texans in football when they landed 2 franchise players by shocking the league making trades for 2, top 5 picks......

This strategy to me makes a TON of sense or you go offer sheet some young kid as you have draft capital that way as well.....I just feel the latter won't work as even if they did slap Toronto and got Knies to sign the offer sheet, unless you went nuclear, Toronto will match.....so to me its a moot point. Would have been something if they would have signed Tavares and/or Marner already and you could force them to dump Reilly to sign Knies but don't see that being the case.........

He would make Bedard better also.

As Paul said, Leafs would never do it.

Would you do #3 and #25 for him?
- vabeachbear

I dont' see the Leafs letting him walk...everyone has a price but to trade Knies they would need more.....and to offer sheet him, they have the cap space to sign him and not be forced to pivot quickly and dump a Reilly and get bent over in the return with zero leverage.

To Pittsburgh 3rd overall pick and reichel to Chicago 11th and 12th and McGroarty
Then Hawks use 11th and 25 th to move up to 7 8 or 9 and still have 12 but need to find a dance partner to.make it happen.

Seems like Leaf players do pretty well when they get out of Toronto.
- Dieselhead

Marner gets a ton of flack but they lose as a team...not because of Mitch not because of Nylander and not because of Matthews.

They lose because their defensive depth sucks, they don't have multiple legit top 4 D men, they dont' have a battle tested goalie, and if they couldn't beat Florida this year with arguably their best chance......they sure as hell aren't beating tampa or Florida or even Carolina next year without Marner or Tavares unless they break out the late 90s Devils trap......

The leafs are the Oilers....the difference is the Oilers don't have as many challengers as by the time they get to the conference final they don't have to go through the Jets or Stars or Avs....they get the kings and then maybe Vegas....so to me the Oilers have the easier path but still get exposed the EXACT same way as again.....they also don't have multiple top 4 d men or a legit goalie....exactly why McJesus isn't happy and likely wont' sign LT there and instead pivot to a 3-4 yr deal tops and make Bowman prove to him he can retool and build him a Florida type team so he can win his cups.....exactly why Bowman got on his pony this week and went to go see his agent.....and a panicked Bowman....well...gods speed Oilers fans. Already dumped Kane.....so you can see the transformation just starting in oil town.

Marner gets a ton of flack but they lose as a team...not because of Mitch not because of Nylander and not because of Matthews.

They lose because their defensive depth sucks, they don't have multiple legit top 4 D men, they dont' have a battle tested goalie, and if they couldn't beat Florida this year with arguably their best chance......they sure as hell aren't beating tampa or Florida or even Carolina next year without Marner or Tavares unless they break out the late 90s Devils trap......

The leafs are the Oilers....the difference is the Oilers don't have as many challengers as by the time they get to the conference final they don't have to go through the Jets or Stars or Avs....they get the kings and then maybe Vegas....so to me the Oilers have the easier path but still get exposed the EXACT same way as again.....they also don't have multiple top 4 d men or a legit goalie....exactly why McJesus isn't happy and likely wont' sign LT there and instead pivot to a 3-4 yr deal tops and make Bowman prove to him he can retool and build him a Florida type team so he can win his cups.....exactly why Bowman got on his pony this week and went to go see his agent.....and a panicked Bowman....well...gods speed Oilers fans. Already dumped Kane.....so you can see the transformation just starting in oil town.
- SteveRain

Yes the Leafs defense is pretty bad but a Marner and Matthews are responsible too. In twelve playoff rounds in nine years neither of the Regular season superstars were the best Leaf player in an any one of those 12 rounds. Yes they had a good game here and there but neither was the best leaf player during the course of a single round.

What's crazy to me is with all that star power in Toronto Knies scores 58 points and everyone is over the hill on this kid, yes i know he big physical man that all the old school hockey fans love, then there's lonely scrawny Bedard who scored 61 and 67 points as a fricking teenager and had to go up against the best defensive pairings night in and night out, refs looking the other way most nights. I can't believe how good this kid is. Now he's working on being a better skater.

I like Knies as a hockey player and I'm sure Verbeek does as well but i can't give up the third 3rd OA if I'm on the fence if he's a core player or not.

I believe Frondell will be better than him and as physical
- BetweenTheDots

Toews maxed out at 35 goals and 81 points, I’m guessing you weren’t “over the hill” about Toews?

How can you possibly predict Frondell will be better than Knies?

Toews maxed out at 35 goals and 81 points, I’m guessing you weren’t “over the hill” about Toews?

How can you possibly predict Frondell will be better than Knies?
- paulr

Mopeville Steve reporting from LA where this should be called the Hidden NHL Draft. There is not 1 sign up anywhere except in front of Peacock Theatre which is inside LA live surrounded by Restaurants. Nobody I know here even knew the Draft was coming to LA. No Awards show. This can't go on.

Ran into Doug Maclean who told me he rarely even thinks about the Hawks because they are so far from contending. He repeated the rumor that Bedard's parents were very unhappy with Richardson and had something to do with the firing. He also said the Gerard Gallant called him after the Blashill signing and asked him how a .400 career coach could get hired without Gallant even getting an interview. Before you attack me for my anti-KD history. I am just reporting, no commentary.

Ran into McQueen's dad who said they think his son will go between 6 and 16. The dad is 6'2" and solid. Played in the W. He told me his wife was at one time the 2nd rated figure skater in Canada. Said his son is a 2 handicap, a championship badminton player, and has been great at every sport he has ever tried. I love my son but he ain't that.

Ran into 25 of the 50 Hagens here at the Courtyard pool. I found the dad and told him I loved the Spittin Chicklits he just did. All of the Hagens crew was not holding back on beers and Jack. They were having a great time.

There was a Hockey Inclusion event going on and I ran into Glenview's Al Montoya and PK Subban amongst others. I caught Subban and told him that I enjoyed his energy on TV and he looked me right in the eye and said, "Thanks. That means a lot."

I talked to the son of an OHL GM who watched over 40 games last season. He thinks the Hawks should draft Martone. Thinks Misa is not the strongest guy and is more like Bedard and needs someone to get him the puck. He said Lardis is incredibly skilled and will score but that he is not NHL strong at this point. Unprovoked he said that he thought Parekh is going to struggle in Calgary and the Canadian WJC team didn't sign him or Misa because their D is too suspect at this point.

Looking forward to the next couple of days.

Marner’s deal is on him. He’s one of the highest paid players in hockey, he wants to be paid higher and in 12 playoff rounds in nine years he wasn’t once the best leaf player in any of those 12 rounds. If Chicago sign Marner and make the playoffs and he bombs, Leaf fans will be rubbing our noses in it.
- paulr

Leafs fans assume they’ll make the playoffs the same way we did in 2017.

I don't know about that.

Question;

If Knies, as currently developed, size and experience, was in the draft tomorrow night, where do you think he'd be drafted?
- vabeachbear

#3