Anyone else find it funny that Rinzel was considered the long term project, and he now seems at least a year, if not two ahead of KK?

Not trying to knock Korchinski, he's got some amazing traits, but Rinzel was considered to be this project that would take years to be even close to ready for the NHL, and now he's considered one of the top two options for the Hawks blue line while KK is still trying to get strong enough and figure things out.
- Chunk

KK should have gone to college...

But you only look at the big picture through your filters. The main one being, not trading any prospects.

You don't seem to take into consideration:
The development of the players already in the NHL - i.e. learning how to win.
The skillsets of prospects already in the system and their hierarchy.
The cap increases reducing the number of FA's available and players that need to be traded.

Was the McGroarty for Yager trade bad for either side?

My only real point of contention with your viewpoint is that you seem to have this nebulous point in time for when it would be acceptable for the Hawks to make a move to improve the team.

I see it as the Hawks had a completely brutal prospect pool. They've now got one of if not the best one in the league. They've got an abundance of prospects and remaining picks. They've got 4ish of the kids on the big club, and tons more pushing for a spot. Right now is the time when you start putting other pieces in place around these kids so that they can improve on NHL ice. Otherwise, you are just starting to get into contract hell because you have to not only pay for the kids new contracts, you have to pay higher prices for any FA or trade that is available. There is no rule that the kids HAVE to bottom feed the first few years in their careers.
- Chunk

1 prospect for another is fine with me

If you have to pay higher prices for your prospects that's a great thing they will bring way more value back in trade then. We all saw what happened to the Blackhawks fabulous team when they missed the dead line to do offer sheets to their RFAs they were so bloated with contracts they had to dump half the team.

As of this upcoming season other than Bedard who is going to get paid? Maybe Nazar, Korchinski is developing slower so his deal will be very reasonable but i can't trade KK because i think he can be similar player to Roman Josi.

Oh yea another player who gonna get a raise will be Knight, Bedard, and maybe Nazar

For sure. Small sample size and only a first impression, but I think we can all admit that Rinzel looked more comfortable and responsible on the ice that KK did. Rinzel had one really egregious error in the OTT game when he let Cousins get behind him, but other than that he looked great at both blue lines and was able to flip the ice pretty consistently.

KK has gotten better. I watched him a ton in Rockford. He plays much more confident there than he did during his call up. He got rubbed out in the corners a bit too easy and was more tentative. All to be expected - like I said, I'm not really knocking him. it's just funny that KK was considered a much better and closer prospect during their draft year, and in three short years the perception has flipped.
- Chunk

I get what you mean and it's great we have many great young D coming in. I just think this year will tell if one if significantly ahead of the other or how much, depending on opportunity. Rinzel may be ahead, he certainly looked good for the most part in the 9 games, but it was just 9 games as a 21 year old. He might struggle in a full season, time will tell. The perception of him might have been similar if he had been a 19 year old playing top 4 minutes while partnered with Megna.

I'm scared Reichel becomes Teravainen but yeah I'd do it.
- rpeters01

So the only difference is that we know that Reichel has struggled thus far and we don't know if Boisvert will or not. Reichel was drafted higher than Boisvert.

Is the reluctance just based on the fact you don't want to give up a guy that you don't know anything about yet?

KK should have gone to college...
- rpeters01

If that was an option for him, sure.

So the only difference is that we know that Reichel has struggled thus far and we don't know if Boisvert will or not. Reichel was drafted higher than Boisvert.

Is the reluctance just based on the fact you don't want to give up a guy that you don't know anything about yet?
- Chunk

Yup. And appears Reichel will never be more than MacTavish. Boisvert can be an NHL Center which don't grow on trees.

Scott's more of a troll than a poster. Constantly putting together thoughtless trade scenarios that never make any sense.
- Assman22

You are entitled to your opinion

I'm scared Reichel becomes Teravainen but yeah I'd do it.
- rpeters01

I mean, TT was important for the Hawks winning a cup in 2015, basically putting the 3rd line over the top. Just saying...You gotta have the skill guys who can pass too. He isn't physical, but he was always decent 2 way.

1 prospect for another is fine with me

If you have to pay higher prices for your prospects that's a great thing they will bring way more value back in trade then. We all saw what happened to the Blackhawks fabulous team when they missed the dead line to do offer sheets to their RFAs they were so bloated with contracts they had to dump half the team.

As of this upcoming season other than Bedard who is going to get paid? Maybe Nazar, Korchinski is developing slower so his deal will be very reasonable but i can't trade KK because i think he can be similar player to Roman Josi.

Oh yea another player who gonna get a raise will be Knight, Bedard, and maybe Nazar
- BetweenTheDots

One lottery ticket for another is fine, but two lottery tickets for a sure thing is not?

One lottery ticket for another is fine, but two lottery tickets for a sure thing is not?
- Chunk

I don't think KK is a lottery ticket, he's going to be a good defenseman in the league. I know Elbows is the be all end all here, but i disagree with him i see some Roman Josi in the kid.

I mean, TT was important for the Hawks winning a cup in 2015, basically putting the 3rd line over the top. Just saying...You gotta have the skill guys who can pass too. He isn't physical, but he was always decent 2 way.
- breadbag

He was an alligator armed floater with us and became a complete player with Carolina.

Really cool article on Nestrasil talking about what turned his season around.

https://chicago.suntimes....forward-identity-muskegon

You can watch a quick 30 second video to get to the article if you don't pay for the SunTimes.

I don't think KK is a lottery ticket, he's going to be a good defenseman in the league. I know Elbows is the be all end all here, but i disagree with him i see some Roman Josi in the kid.
- BetweenTheDots

I love the optimism and hope you are right, but he's got miles to go defensively to even be mentioned in the same breath as Josi.

He made some strides in Rockford and played a bit better when he got called up. His biggest deficiencies are strength on the puck and being able to make quick decisions under pressure. He certainly has the skill/ability/agility to be a really good player. He needs his mind to catch up.

At his best, what is KK?

At their best, what are Rinzel and Arty?

That's the thing. They are all play driving defensemen who could/should man the PP. Maybe if the Hawks consider going with two D-men on a PP that set-up could work, but ultimately, I think one of them goes, and my money would be on KK if that's the case.

I love the optimism and hope you are right, but he's got miles to go defensively to even be mentioned in the same breath as Josi.

He made some strides in Rockford and played a bit better when he got called up. His biggest deficiencies are strength on the puck and being able to make quick decisions under pressure. He certainly has the skill/ability/agility to be a really good player. He needs his mind to catch up.

At his best, what is KK?

At their best, what are Rinzel and Arty?

That's the thing. They are all play driving defensemen who could/should man the PP. Maybe if the Hawks consider going with two D-men on a PP that set-up could work, but ultimately, I think one of them goes, and my money would be on KK if that's the case.
- Chunk

Until KK overcomes his distaste for physical play he’s going to struggle getting into the NHL. In my opinion the only thing holding him back is his timidness. As you say his defensive game is improving, he skates really well, he may be the best passer of all the Hawk’s defensive prospects and we haven’t seen how good he can be offensively. But he’s absolutely no use if he he shies away from contact.

He was an alligator armed floater with us and became a complete player with Carolina.
- rpeters01

Agree

He was an alligator armed floater with us and became a complete player with Carolina.
- rpeters01

Teuvo needed a change of scenery. He wasn't going to become the player he is today by staying here. Carolina had an established Finnish player when he arrived there, something the Hawks did not have at the time. For Teuvo, that was important then. We could see some of the potential unlocked when Timonen was here briefly.

I don't know what the right environment for Reichel is. It hasn't happened here for him. It is time to move on, not just for the Hawks, but for him as well. He might get to another level in another setting, he might not.

Teuvo needed a change of scenery. He wasn't going to become the player he is today by staying here. Carolina had an established Finnish player when he arrived there, something the Hawks did not have at the time. For Teuvo, that was important then. We could see some of the potential unlocked when Timonen was here briefly.

I don't know what the right environment for Reichel is. It hasn't happened here for him. It is time to move on, not just for the Hawks, but for him as well. He might get to another level in another setting, he might not.
- 333inthe3rd

Hell, I'm half German. I'll take the minimum to babysit him.

Teuvo needed a change of scenery. He wasn't going to become the player he is today by staying here. Carolina had an established Finnish player when he arrived there, something the Hawks did not have at the time. For Teuvo, that was important then. We could see some of the potential unlocked when Timonen was here briefly.

I don't know what the right environment for Reichel is. It hasn't happened here for him. It is time to move on, not just for the Hawks, but for him as well. He might get to another level in another setting, he might not.
- 333inthe3rd

That's the nice thing about a rebuild it makes your decisions for you. Kurashev couldn't take it to the next level now he's gone, Reichel is right there now a couple of years ago i wouldn't of wanted to trade Reichel but this year KD is playing with house money with Reichel, sit and we'll see if he can take it to the next level.

I love the optimism and hope you are right, but he's got miles to go defensively to even be mentioned in the same breath as Josi.

He made some strides in Rockford and played a bit better when he got called up. His biggest deficiencies are strength on the puck and being able to make quick decisions under pressure. He certainly has the skill/ability/agility to be a really good player. He needs his mind to catch up.

At his best, what is KK?

At their best, what are Rinzel and Arty?

That's the thing. They are all play driving defensemen who could/should man the PP. Maybe if the Hawks consider going with two D-men on a PP that set-up could work, but ultimately, I think one of them goes, and my money would be on KK if that's the case.
- Chunk

So did Josi when he was the same age. It took him a while before he became the Roman Josi we all know. That's the beauty of the rebuild for now EDM Vlasic Allan and Kaiser will man the left side and you just let KK keep developing and grow into his man body, that's what the Kings did with Clarke. I think that is also what KD means in players in layers.

And if anyone watched the AHL playoffs, KK wasn't playing scared.

Besides all this talk about McTavish is a waste of time the Ducks will never trade him to us unless we traded them Arty, the draft pick they desperately wanted at 3.

That's the nice thing about a rebuild it makes your decisions for you. Kurashev couldn't take it to the next level now he's gone, Reichel is right there now a couple of years ago i wouldn't of wanted to trade Reichel but this year KD is playing with house money with Reichel, sit and we'll see if he can take it to the next level.
- BetweenTheDots

The Hawks have a new coach, so that might make sense, see if Blashill can get him to another level before they move on. I wonder if they ever had the same chance to move him as when they moved Dach.

So did Josi when he was the same age. It took him a while before he became the Roman Josi we all know. That's the beauty of the rebuild for now EDM Vlasic Allan and Kaiser will man the left side and you just let KK keep developing and grow into his man body, that's what the Kings did with Clarke. I think that is also what KD means in players in layers.

And if anyone watched the AHL playoffs, KK wasn't playing scared.
- BetweenTheDots

I caught all but one game of the playoffs. In the offensive zone, he was really good. Neutral zone he was pretty good. In his own zone he left more to be desired. I think we can all admit he looked better, but still needed help in his own zone with the Hawks as well.

Besides all this talk about McTavish is a waste of time the Ducks will never trade him to us unless we traded them Arty, the draft pick they desperately wanted at 3.
- BetweenTheDots

McTavish is a fine young player, but the fact remains he isn't currently a 1st line player on a good NHL team. We have a ton of 2nd line and 3rd line types and guys coming up the project to be more of the same. Trading for him doesn't really move the needle just brings another guy similar to what we have but younger than some of the current roster guys, or "older" than the current prospects. We don't need Mason McTavish.

McTavish is a fine young player, but the fact remains he isn't currently a 1st line player on a good NHL team. We have a ton of 2nd line and 3rd line types and guys coming up the project to be more of the same. Trading for him doesn't really move the needle just brings another guy similar to what we have but younger than some of the current roster guys, or "older" than the current prospects. We don't need Mason McTavish.
- breadbag

C’mon bread, why are you raining on the parade, I already have him playing with Nazar and Vanacker on the second line. In all seriousness, he would be a good add to this Hawks team due to his two way game, however I doubt very much that Verbeek would trade him to the Hawks. McTavish to me is a younger version of Bennett, but even stronger.

So did Josi when he was the same age. It took him a while before he became the Roman Josi we all know. That's the beauty of the rebuild for now EDM Vlasic Allan and Kaiser will man the left side and you just let KK keep developing and grow into his man body, that's what the Kings did with Clarke. I think that is also what KD means in players in layers.

And if anyone watched the AHL playoffs, KK wasn't playing scared.
- BetweenTheDots

I keep going back to Campbell. He took till 25 to become a full time player.