Did you watch the game, VBear? Stolarz rumbled, stumbled and bumbled his way to a win. I'll take him as the opposing goalie over Woll 10 outa 10 times.

But yea, the results say Stolarz got the win and that's what matters.
- Mr Ricochet

ya, well i did turn it off after the 2nd.

Unspoken point to my comment is it usually really doesn't matter who the goalie is, other than Danato forcing in a goal every now and then, no one besides Bedard can hit a small are with their shot, its either center of the golies chest or miss the net.

There haven't been any other successful complete tear downs except for maybe Pittsburg when they got Flurey, Malkin, Crosby, Staal and drafted 1st or second overall 4 years in a row. But they were only out of the playoffs 4 years. Perpetually bad teams like the Oilers I don't think they want to emulate.

The other successful organizations were bad with some still good veterans and turned things around in 2 or 3 and did not have overly long playoff droughts. Colorado, Tampa, Washington, for example. Colorado and Tampa got a playoff run in early, retooled again and have been solid since. After drafting Ovechkin the Capitals were back in it pretty quickly, they didn't wait around.

Florida was bad for a long time but they were ineptly run for a while. Same for Ottawa, Buffalo, Vancouver right after the Sedin's were done. And the Hawks before the old man was on his death bed.

Point being - the well run organizations are not out of the playoffs for 5-6 years. That just isn't the time table. They are back in it within 3 or 4 depending on the scale of the rebuild and maybe there is a tweak that needs to happen with the initial group after that first run.
- fattybeef

While i can't disagree with what you said, my push back would be for me anyway, getting back to the playoffs is not the goal. My only goal is cups, and multiple of them at that.

I don't think you can retool and win multiple cups, I am totally behind the strategy of tear down and total rebuild top to bottom. I think its the best strategy to pursue that.

While they are playing better defense with the improvement from the young Dmen like Allan, Kaiser, and Vlasic, along with adding Brodie and Martinez, the fact is that they are not driving offense from the backend. Yes, they did a nice job last night keeping pucks in, but with the lack of scoring they could definitely use some push from the Dmen. I’m thinking that KK will be up after the TDL, and who knows, maybe Arty if he seems ready, but doubt he’ll be up before next season.
- Angotti

This. I see potential in Kaiser. Someone on here mentioned it's only about time he starts getting some shots in. I'm impressed when he joins the rush. As much as everyone likes to beat him down, Jones still can carry the puck up the ice and had been shooting more prior to the injury.

With Jones healthy, I feel the Hawks have a middle-of-the-road defense. The problem is the forwards are a bunch of 3rd and 4th liners. Hall appears past his prime. KD did what he could in FA group as there wasn't much out there- Stamkos? Marchessault? Like TT and Bertuzzi, even DeBrusk and Domi are 3rd liners, all with the ability to play 2nd line at times. Smith, Donato, Foligno Mikheyev, Kurashev and Richardson are all 3rd/4th liners. This group can't generate more than a goal or two unless given adequate PP time. 5v5 they just can't cut it.

While i can't disagree with what you said, my push back would be for me anyway, getting back to the playoffs is not the goal. My only goal is cups, and multiple of them at that.

I don't think you can retool and win multiple cups, I am totally behind the strategy of tear down and total rebuild top to bottom. I think its the best strategy to pursue that.
- vabeachbear

That sounds great, but there are far too many variables to consider to plan for that (injuries, luck, hot goalie, etc). I think the best you can do is build a balanced roster with players who play a fast, aggressive, high event game. Build as much depth as you can and hope that a couple of the guys you select turn into offensive monsters. They seem to have at least one offensive monster. They have a lot of lottery tickets for the second. They also have a lot of possible really good to great D-men.

Beyond that, go out and get what you need. I am very comfortable saying that if the Hawks want to wait for all of their prospects to turn into NHL players, it will be a complete waste of time and they will take far longer to get competitive.

The funniest thing for me... the goaltending is the steadiest position for this team at the moment.

Fatty, you're not getting it. There has to be a process to this. You can't sign competent non-35 year old players that can help you win. The only options that would be willing to sign with the Hawks are the Rah-Rah old vet types that you have to overpay for.

I've echoed your stance before and keep getting responses like, "they aren't ready for that yet", "that will block the kids coming in", you have to see what you have in the prospects first", "why would you put yourself in cap hell now?".

I really don't see why the Hawks can't find a middle ground of icing a competent team that isn't over the hill and being able to leave room open for kids to take spots. In all seriousness, how many kids are going to be able to come in and crack the roster each year? How many kids will even be NHL caliber talent?
- Chunk

It makes it difficult to evaluate the coach unless he's just Ricky Renteria. Which is fine but that isn't what the org has said.

It's tough to evaluate Kyle. They said they couldn't finish last again but also those are the guys they identified and brought in and to echo some of the other comments - there's no identity - because these guys were added haphazardly.

But I will acquiesce that he did have to fill out the roster somehow and what else was he gonna do?

The coach wanted fast players to play a fast style and he's been a little hamstrung there. It's just a very weird situation.

On a high note the blue line today is better than what the Leafs iced so they have that going for them. Even if only one of Levshunov and Korchinski turn into a game breaker they are in very very very good shape there. I think they need to just tell Jones its gonna be 5 more years and were tanking the next two so how bout you let us trade you to give you the best shot at a cup some day.

I agree about Brodie, but i was disappointed that Kaiser was more worried about where the puck was instead of covering the guy in the slot.
- BetweenTheDots

Needs more experience points to level up. His game otherwise was fantastic. Pinched wonderfully, carried the puck with authority, made excellent decisions and snapped off a few solid shots from the point.

He should of played bball or football if he didn't want to go to class

- vabeachbear

He'd get paid more as a college b ball or f ball player than an NHL hockey player.

It was always going to be a 5 year deal, at a minimum. You only have to look at any other NHL complete tear downs and rebuilds to see this.

Those that don't understand that, will be disappointed. Its a free country, so you can think and post what you believe, but I'd like to invite anyone who can point out complete tear downs and rebuilds that were competeing in 3 years.

Just not realistic, but human nature is to find a scapegoat. LR seems to the guy now. Maybe he is, but i'd challange anyone with that belief to have won more games with his rosters. I think they have mostly over preformed their ability in most of his time here.

And as far as benchings, I just listened to 4 days of Flus and Waldron bashing, one of the items was the vets had to go to them all and female dog because they wouldn't coach players hard, especially the young players, and young players weren't held accountable.

One of his main jobs with the young players is to put them into an environment where they are accountable, and learn how to play at this level.

I admit there are games i just have to turn off because they are hard to watch. It doesn't necesarily bother me though, as I didn't expect them to be competeing at this point, and really don't for another two years, I never did.
- vabeachbear

I agree with your LR assessment. We're not talking about a guy out of control, over his head or anything remotely close.

It makes it difficult to evaluate the coach unless he's just Ricky Renteria. Which is fine but that isn't what the org has said.

It's tough to evaluate Kyle. They said they couldn't finish last again but also those are the guys they identified and brought in and to echo some of the other comments - there's no identity - because these guys were added haphazardly.

But I will acquiesce that he did have to fill out the roster somehow and what else was he gonna do?

The coach wanted fast players to play a fast style and he's been a little hamstrung there. It's just a very weird situation.

On a high note the blue line today is better than what the Leafs iced so they have that going for them. Even if only one of Levshunov and Korchinski turn into a game breaker they are in very very very good shape there. I think they need to just tell Jones its gonna be 5 more years and were tanking the next two so how bout you let us trade you to give you the best shot at a cup some day.
- fattybeef

Do you think they'd really have to convince him to move? He's been pretty vocal about not enjoying the rebuild and not signing in CHI expecting they would tear it down. If NYR, or WPG called wanting him, I think he'd jump at it.

I wouldn't of minded Debrusk, i liked the Teuvo signing, good nhl player with good term, Bertuzzi reminds me so much of Entwistle with his flailing skating but he's not a terrible pro. Smith had been a nice surprise, Brodie not so much, or Hall but i keep hearing how he has to get his legs back i guess they are tied to his hands some how.

I think Nashville has made a big splash, they overpaid Skjei, year and term, rather overpay Brodie and his term, Skjei, 7 years at $7 mil looks like he's stuck in mud on the ice. This contract already is horrible. Overpaid and over termed Marshessault 5yrs@$5.5per and Stamkos 4yrs@$8 per, all 30+ year olds, i wanted Stamkos for 2 years same with Marshessault maybe even 3.

Last thing this team needs is a 30 year old making $9 per for 7 years.
- BetweenTheDots

Yeah definitely not saying that. I don't think they should get guys to get guys.

I think they should think about reclamation projects similar to Jiricek. High end talent maybe just needs to hear a different voice in his ear. All it cost was picks and a third round pick prospect who may or may not be an ok pro.

If the asking price was similar for Zegras - meaning they wanted like Dach + a late first + a second and a fifth or whatever it was - I don't see why it's controversial to do a deal like that? I think the ducks will make a coaching change before they make a roster change but that's the type of deal I'd be interested in.

Or like Kurashev and a third for Morgan Frost. If he sucks what have they really lost?

Im not saying they need to trade for guys because they need to trade for guys but if there is someone who may need a change of scenery that should be able to be a very productive player and all it costs is a middling prospect \ roster player and some picks (which they have a surplus of) there is a better chance of that working out then drafting someone 53rd.

However if there was a fire sale in Ottawa and literally everyone was available I think you pay the price for Brady and only Bedard and Levshunov are off limits.

There haven't been any other successful complete tear downs except for maybe Pittsburg when they got Flurey, Malkin, Crosby, Staal and drafted 1st or second overall 4 years in a row. But they were only out of the playoffs 4 years. Perpetually bad teams like the Oilers I don't think they want to emulate.

The other successful organizations were bad with some still good veterans and turned things around in 2 or 3 and did not have overly long playoff droughts. Colorado, Tampa, Washington, for example. Colorado and Tampa got a playoff run in early, retooled again and have been solid since. After drafting Ovechkin the Capitals were back in it pretty quickly, they didn't wait around.

Florida was bad for a long time but they were ineptly run for a while. Same for Ottawa, Buffalo, Vancouver right after the Sedin's were done. And the Hawks before the old man was on his death bed.

Point being - the well run organizations are not out of the playoffs for 5-6 years. That just isn't the time table. They are back in it within 3 or 4 depending on the scale of the rebuild and maybe there is a tweak that needs to happen with the initial group after that first run.
- fattybeef

"Washington drafted Ovechkin." All we need to do in 3-4 years is find the NHL's all time leading goal scorer. Not to pile on but did you notice you named more teams that failed to rebuild quickly than those who were successful? Also, where is Detroit with their genius?

Losing $15 mil. in salary (Hall, Martinez, AA), they need to (over)pay someone to get to the cap floor next year. Is Donato going to get one of KD's 401K gifts, a 2 x $4mil. contract?

If the cap. is set at $92.5, the floor is $68.5. The Hawks currently have 15 contracts on the NHL roster or $57 mil.

Lets say 3 of the kids make it next year (Nazer,KK,Slaggert for arguments sake), that is another 3 million. So they need $8 mil. with 5 FA signees to hit the floor.

o unless you want another bunch of Maroon's. Smith,et. at $1 mil. a piece, who do you sign that would be enticed to come here that is nothing more than a mercenary placeholder?

How much do you think a Sam Bennett (at 30 years old) is going to get if he decides to go FA?
- LAHawk

14 million for Rantanen.

In all seriousness I'd rather see them pay 3 guys 2.5 million then give Donato 4 or 5.

It was always going to be a 5 year deal, at a minimum. You only have to look at any other NHL complete tear downs and rebuilds to see this.

Those that don't understand that, will be disappointed. Its a free country, so you can think and post what you believe, but I'd like to invite anyone who can point out complete tear downs and rebuilds that were competeing in 3 years.

Just not realistic, but human nature is to find a scapegoat. LR seems to the guy now. Maybe he is, but i'd challange anyone with that belief to have won more games with his rosters. I think they have mostly over preformed their ability in most of his time here.

And as far as benchings, I just listened to 4 days of Flus and Waldron bashing, one of the items was the vets had to go to them all and female dog because they wouldn't coach players hard, especially the young players, and young players weren't held accountable.

One of his main jobs with the young players is to put them into an environment where they are accountable, and learn how to play at this level.

I admit there are games i just have to turn off because they are hard to watch. It doesn't necesarily bother me though, as I didn't expect them to be competeing at this point, and really don't for another two years, I never did.
- vabeachbear

It isn't about winning games,at least not to me it isn't.
I would have taken a 5-4 loss against Florida or Dallas if they Hocks played with a bit more effort and if Bedard and Nazar had a goal and assist etc...
The Columbus game was a fine game, even the Toronto game last night,they at least put some SOG and put forth an effort.

Winning 3-1/2-1/and shootout games without seeing 98 playing with competent linemates and Nazar being stuck in the AHL (because that is where he is going to learn how to play against NHLers????) , along with Korchinski being in the AHL is what pisses me off.

The team is in LAST PLACE,might as well be in last place and have Nazar and Korchinski along with the Leprechaun up here playing and gaining experience.

And whoever mentions all the losing will have a negative affect on young players, the Hogs record isn't anything to write home about.

I agree with your LR assessment. We're not talking about a guy out of control, over his head or anything remotely close.
- rpeters01

Feeling the same way. LR doesn't have much to work with.

Other than prospects developing, the best way to improve is to get young talent for picks, stars (N/A here) or your underperforming prospects. It's nuts that the Kings gave Faber to the Wild. Let's see how Jiricek pans out.

As much as criticized Reichel last year as a Sikora-type, he's looking better and better each game, maybe he's good for 3rd/4th line duties due to lesser comp but we need good, young third liners in the big picture. But given the chance to get better young talent in a package, I would trade him.

Kurashev needs to be moved- he would not clear waivers. Only 25, he still put up 51 points last year, somebody would be interested in him. He's an RFA next year anyway. I'd be willing to get another underperforming young player in return or a higher cap dump that'll be a UFA next year plus picks.

Fine then it's 2. It certainly isn't one. The tear down started when they moved Hagel for 2 picks and 2 bodies.
- fattybeef

Kind of irrelevant what it is. Until we know about more of our young guys, many still in college or juniors, we really can't start making trades or signing big FA's. FA's because it would take the overpayments of all time to get anybody to come here. Hossa was a final piece, not an early piece. I'm only using him as an example.

While i can't disagree with what you said, my push back would be for me anyway, getting back to the playoffs is not the goal. My only goal is cups, and multiple of them at that.

I don't think you can retool and win multiple cups, I am totally behind the strategy of tear down and total rebuild top to bottom. I think its the best strategy to pursue that.
- vabeachbear

In a hard cap league like the NHL - the playoffs is the goal because a hot goalie or having one very dominant defender and a goal scorer - can take you far or ruin your day and it becomes health (which isn't necessarily dependent on depth) and luck that determines champions.

Chicago had to change a few times. So did the Penguins. The Lightning team that lost to the Blackhawks was different from the one that won their two cups.

Colorado didn't win their cup until after they retooled and moved on from Orielly and Duchene. Washington had to have a few turnovers before they won theirs. Florida wasn't able to get over the finish line until they completely retooled their team (moving a 100 point forward and top 4 defender def qualifies as a big change).

In the last 10 years there hasn't been a team that won that didn't undergo roster turnover between their first playoff run with that core and their actual cup win. It's just how the league works.

This. I see potential in Kaiser. Someone on here mentioned it's only about time he starts getting some shots in. I'm impressed when he joins the rush. As much as everyone likes to beat him down, Jones still can carry the puck up the ice and had been shooting more prior to the injury.

With Jones healthy, I feel the Hawks have a middle-of-the-road defense. The problem is the forwards are a bunch of 3rd and 4th liners. Hall appears past his prime. KD did what he could in FA group as there wasn't much out there- Stamkos? Marchessault? Like TT and Bertuzzi, even DeBrusk and Domi are 3rd liners, all with the ability to play 2nd line at times. Smith, Donato, Foligno Mikheyev, Kurashev and Richardson are all 3rd/4th liners. This group can't generate more than a goal or two unless given adequate PP time. 5v5 they just can't cut it.
- Popsghostly

Jones can carry the puck but since he doesn't have a lot of hockey sense it is typically unproductive.

I think the defense is just as good if not better without Jones in the line up.

"Washington drafted Ovechkin." All we need to do in 3-4 years is find the NHL's all time leading goal scorer. Not to pile on but did you notice you named more teams that failed to rebuild quickly than those who were successful? Also, where is Detroit with their genius?
- rpeters01

They already have that guy. Bedard is supposed to be the generational guy. All signs (despite a current slump) point to him being that guy. Put a GD team around him.

Do you think they'd really have to convince him to move? He's been pretty vocal about not enjoying the rebuild and not signing in CHI expecting they would tear it down. If NYR, or WPG called wanting him, I think he'd jump at it.
- Chunk

Let's hope so. It's going to be an awfully crowded right side in a year or 3 and while I think it would be hilarious to pay a guy 9 million to play on the third pairing if they unload him and pay Martinez 4 million for one more year I think that is a better option.

"Washington drafted Ovechkin." All we need to do in 3-4 years is find the NHL's all time leading goal scorer. Not to pile on but did you notice you named more teams that failed to rebuild quickly than those who were successful? Also, where is Detroit with their genius?
- rpeters01

Never mentioned that Detroit was a team to model after.

And no they did not. You're not reading my posts.

My point is none of these teams were poopty on purpose except for the Penguins and they were all very quickly competitive again. NONE of them had a 5 year playoff drought after they drafted their best player. Zero. They had a 1 in 5 or one in 6 year run but none were sustained awfulness.

They were all organically bad for 2 years, did not waste those picks, got into the playoffs immediately with the previous core and then decided you know what we need to retool because this just isn't working - got another 2 or 3 years of picks and went at it again.

Other than the Blackhawks and Penguins - all the other teams that built "through the draft" have done it that way the last 20 years. And to win their other Cups the Hawks and Penguins had to have significant roster turnover between them. Unless we want to talk about LA or Vegas where they went out and bought everyone but no one here wants to do that.

Sure it may take 10 years to win a cup but it shouldn't take 5 to get into the playoffs.

They already have that guy. Bedard is supposed to be the generational guy. All signs (despite a current slump) point to him being that guy. Put a GD team around him.
- Chunk

THIS.

Bedard is supposed to be that player. If he isn't the rebuild is going to be problematic anyway.

THIS.

Bedard is supposed to be that player. If he isn't the rebuild is going to be problematic anyway.
- fattybeef

KD did make a big push to get Guentzel over the off-season but we lost out to TB. Similarly, for next year he tried getting the Demidov pick but couldn't give up enough.

Does this mean we go all-in on Marner next summer to play with Bedard?

Kind of irrelevant what it is. Until we know about more of our young guys, many still in college or juniors, we really can't start making trades or signing big FA's. FA's because it would take the overpayments of all time to get anybody to come here. Hossa was a final piece, not an early piece. I'm only using him as an example.
- rpeters01

TT and Bertuzzi? Trades (contract is already set)? This is BS in my book. There is no rule that says you have to wait for the prosects to show what they are before building a team.

NYR said the same poop with that letter they sent to their fans... and then Panarin and some other guys became available. Say what you will about them, but they are always in the mix.

No one should be trying to emulate Buffalo, Det, etc.

KD did make a big push to get Guentzel over the off-season but we lost out to TB. Similarly, for next year he tried getting the Demidov pick but couldn't give up enough.

Does this mean we go all-in on Marner next summer to play with Bedard?
- Popsghostly

No! Marner has proven he’s not a playoff performer.

Stay the course and sign that big Free Agent when Davidson knows what the team needs and when taking on an older player fits with the timeline of the guys who are drafted and are on the roster. Marner will be 28 next season. The majority of upcoming prospects won’t be making the Hawk roster for two to three years. Marner will be 30-31 making $15M on a 7 year deal and still won’t be a playoff performer. Not sure I see the fit other than to appease a few impatient fans?

Feeling the same way. LR doesn't have much to work with.

Other than prospects developing, the best way to improve is to get young talent for picks, stars (N/A here) or your underperforming prospects. It's nuts that the Kings gave Faber to the Wild. Let's see how Jiricek pans out.

As much as criticized Reichel last year as a Sikora-type, he's looking better and better each game, maybe he's good for 3rd/4th line duties due to lesser comp but we need good, young third liners in the big picture. But given the chance to get better young talent in a package, I would trade him.

Kurashev needs to be moved- he would not clear waivers. Only 25, he still put up 51 points last year, somebody would be interested in him. He's an RFA next year anyway. I'd be willing to get another underperforming young player in return or a higher cap dump that'll be a UFA next year plus picks.
- Popsghostly

They didn't just give Faber to the kings, they got Fiala back who has posted 72,73 points the last 2 years with the Kings. Both teams got what they wanted. Good for Faber taking advantage of his opportunity. If he was still with the Kings, he probably would be their 6th defenseman right now.