The tear down ended the minute Bedard was drafted 1yr and 23ish games ago.
- Mr Ricochet

If the teardown ended then, what do you call that last 1 year and 23ish games? I'd be hard pressed to call it building anything. They thrust him into the 1C role with no one to play with. The best case scenario last year would be what? Hall and Kurashev (or Reichel)? A guy that was playing 3rd line on the Bruins, a guy that should have been playing 3rd line on the Blackhawks, or an unknown commodity.

I really used to be on the side of let them build this thing through the draft. I just don't think you can actively waste NHL seasons without trying to improve each year. I said before, I'll give them the one tank year. They scored the big fish. Now get to work putting good pieces around him. I was on board with TT and Bertuzzi (who I think will continue to improve as the year goes on). Guys like Brodie and Maroon and Foligno and Mikheyev, and Smith (who hasn't been bad for the money) are guys that contenders add when they want depth.

Yes but this doesn't support the narrative that KFC is in over his head; and even though he has a plan, needs to scrap said plan to make the Hawks better today. Because!
- HawkintheD

I disagree with any plan that puts most of its emphasis on drafted players. I just don't think it is realistic or sustainable. I'm actually not really all that upset with a number of KD's moves outside of filling in with 32-37 year old guys.

If KD replaces Smith and Maroon with next year's version of Smith and Maroon, then yeah, I'll call him in over his head.

KD did make a big push to get Guentzel over the off-season but we lost out to TB. Similarly, for next year he tried getting the Demidov pick but couldn't give up enough.

Does this mean we go all-in on Marner next summer to play with Bedard?
- Popsghostly

Depends on who you ask. They have a lot of small toolsy guys. I like Marner. I don't like Marner as much if there isn't a big mean player to clear space on the other wing.

I don't buy the claim that he isn't a playoff performer. 50 points in 57 playoff games is pretty darn solid. Toronto's issues in the playoffs are the same issues as last night.

When the forwards are checked early and aggressively they have issues pushing the pace through the neutral zone. Against a good team it causes all manner of problems, agains the Hawks it causes problems but maybe doesn't translate into a loss.

Toronto will not go to a conference final, let alone a cup final, until they add a dynamic player to the blue line (or a hell of an all around one) who can advance the puck with his feet and make teams pay for moving up their defenders in the neutral zone and shrinking the space. Adding Tanev sure got the "we gotta block shots and jam guys in the corners" people hard but did not solve their problem.

That isn't Marner's, Matthew's, Nynalder's or Tavares's fault. They have a team that is poorly constructed to go deep into the playoffs because their blue line is fine but not dynamic in any way and why a player like Levshunov and\or Korchinski (maybe Rinzel) should make them an extremely dangerous team.

If Levshunov's first step and dynamism is everything that is advertised it's really going to open up the ice for Bedard and some of these other guys.

TT and Bertuzzi? Trades (contract is already set)? This is BS in my book. There is no rule that says you have to wait for the prosects to show what they are before building a team.

NYR said the same poop with that letter they sent to their fans... and then Panarin and some other guys became available. Say what you will about them, but they are always in the mix.

No one should be trying to emulate Buffalo, Det, etc.
- Chunk

Also the Hawks got Havlat very early and Hossa essentially replaced him.

Also the Hawks got Havlat very early and Hossa essentially replaced him.
- fattybeef

The Havlat trade is when I began to think that the Hocks might actually be trying to build something. He was their 1st star forward in a lot of years.

Also the Hawks got Havlat very early and Hossa essentially replaced him.
- fattybeef

The Havlat trade is when I began to think that the Hocks might actually be trying to build something. He was their 1st star forward in a lot of years.

The tear down ended the minute Bedard was drafted 1yr and 23ish games ago.
- Mr Ricochet

You are right
That is exactly when it should have ended.
They should have started to surround the kid with some talent last year + added Teravainen and Bertuzzi this year and tried to win a few more games.

Winning the World Series is so overrated.
- LAHawk

I knew that was coming.

You keep repeating this but i got to keep repeating this, no team has been this aggressive in a rebuild and because of it they are real bad right now, they basically started from scratch. They ditched all their top 6 forwards and top 4dmen other than 1. Going into the 26-27 season I'm really curious where this org will be. I have a feeling you will see a transfer in power the teams that are cellar dwellars right not half of them will most likely be pushing out teams that have been going to the playoffs for years.
- BetweenTheDots

The Penguins were pretty aggressively bad but you are right in that they are the only one remotely close to comparable so by that standard I should adjust my expectations and be content with the fact that they are going to have at least 4 rubbish years so at least 2 to go.

I think the only cellar dwellers who are going to move up are probably San Jose, they seem to have a nice little group and a solid front office. Columbus has a really nice young group, Waddell is a good GM and the city isn't a place to avoid anymore. And hopefully the Hawks.

Theyre crying poor in Winnipeg again and even with a good team theyre not drawing what they say they need to so should be annoying whatever happens there.

Id expect Detroit, Ottawa and Buffalo to remain mediocre and Montreal to stay hilariously bad. Probably time in Montreal to turn over that front office, probably time in Detroit as well.

I’d steer clear of Ranntenan strictly because of age. He’d be 30-31 by the time the prospects are in the lineup then you’re looking at the downside of his career before the team is ready to make a push to contender. Now Tkachuck on the other hand …. The cost would be steep but could be a difference maker.
- paulr

Hossa was signed in Chicago at age 31.

They are both big strong highly productive 2 way wingers.

I expect them to move Donato at the deadline. The $2 mill cap hit is cheap enough for someone to bite. Coach's son having a career year. Fifth team at age 28.

They need to keep cycling through players. Some will be busts. Some will turn into fixtures. Some will develop enough to be traded at the deadline for more swings at the pinata.
- 333inthe3rd

And he's probably one of the few players they'd consider moving that has any value at the moment.

Adding to the last part, the ultimate cycle through example was when the Habs added Sean Monahan plus a 1st in exchange for future considerations, and eventually traded him away for a 1st.
- 333inthe3rd

And now Monahan, actually healthy, is fitting in perfectly in Columbus.

Was it the Habs spending on the player that was an issue or is the issue with the Habs? I'm gonna go with the org is just a dumpster fire.

The tear down ended the minute Bedard was drafted 1yr and 23ish games ago.
- Mr Ricochet

No, The tear down was the year before so they could tank for Bedard.

Hossa was signed in Chicago at age 31.

They are both big strong highly productive 2 way wingers.
- fattybeef

And what was around him when he was signed ……..

ya, well i did turn it off after the 2nd.

Unspoken point to my comment is it usually really doesn't matter who the goalie is, other than Danato forcing in a goal every now and then, no one besides Bedard can hit a small are with their shot, its either center of the golies chest or miss the net.
- vabeachbear

Good Lord, I have thoughts on Bedard. From over and over amazement at his shot to visceral, unfortunately for a grown man, reactions to his 2:00 shifts among 37 other things.

Someone who hadn't seen Bedard asked after they won the lottery what is it about the kid that makes him so great, generational. I had to stop and think too long for a guy like me, made me take inventory of what I think of the kid predraft

I simply answered his shot. Seeing it enough as a pro I do think he has the most wicked unstoppable shot I've ever seen. Kid could pick a sliver of a corner like nobody I've ever seen and do it with a release no human has ever shown.

This yr the kid hits the goalie in the belly or misses the net by 10 inches, which is like 2ft wide for all but 98% of the shooters in the NHL. Told me, yep, this kid is fighting it. IMO that's the frustration you see from him. First time ever his shot ain't going in on top of what even the greatest players went thru as a 19 yr old in the NHL.

Was probably BM who posted a link to Seravelli interviewing KD. Thought the interview stunk by the way but hung around the site and read around and Seravelli made a great point in one of his podcasts about Bedard's troubles this yr.

He said somewhere along the line Bedard decided he was an elite passer and started passing up shots this yr. That Bedard's shot is unholy and 99% of the time shooting is the right thing for him to do, not passing. IMO that is a bullseye observation and he articulated my thoughts for me.

No doubt the kid has very good vision and feel but none of those traits comes within miles of his shot, which to me is unholy. Listening to Seravelli as I shook my head yes brought me back to the question a poster asked before they even drafted him, what makes this kid great.

IMO I got that one right, it's his shot and when he decides otherwise and passes up a shot he's not elite, especially so when factoring his considerable weaknesses off the puck.

Good Lord, I have thoughts on Bedard. From over and over amazement at his shot to visceral, unfortunately for a grown man, reactions to his 2:00 shifts among 37 other things.

Someone who hadn't seen Bedard asked after they won the lottery what is it about the kid that makes him so great, generational. I had to stop and think too long for a guy like me, made me take inventory of what I think of the kid predraft

I simply answered his shot. Seeing it enough as a pro I do think he has the most wicked unstoppable shot I've ever seen. Kid could pick a sliver of a corner like nobody I've ever seen and do it with a release no human has ever shown.

This yr the kid hits the goalie in the belly or misses the net by 10 inches, which is like 2ft wide for all but 98% of the shooters in the NHL. Told me, yep, this kid is fighting it. IMO that's the frustration you see from him. First time ever his shot ain't going in on top of what even the greatest players went thru as a 19 yr old in the NHL.

Was probably BM who posted a link to Seravelli interviewing KD. Thought the interview stunk by the way but hung around the site and read around and Seravelli made a great point in one of his podcasts about Bedard's troubles this yr.

He said somewhere along the line Bedard decided he was an elite passer and started passing up shots this yr. That Bedard's shot is unholy and 99% of the time shooting is the right thing for him to do, not passing. IMO that is a bullseye observation and he articulated my thoughts for me.

No doubt the kid has very good vision and feel but none of those traits comes within miles of his shot, which to me is unholy. Listening to Seravelli as I shook my head yes brought me back to the question a poster asked before they even drafted him, what makes this kid great.

IMO I got that one right, it's his shot and when he decides otherwise and passes up a shot he's not elite, especially so when factoring his considerable weaknesses off the puck.
- Mr Ricochet

Pretty sure VA was talking about the rest of the roster, not Bedard.

That sounds great, but there are far too many variables to consider to plan for that (injuries, luck, hot goalie, etc). I think the best you can do is build a balanced roster with players who play a fast, aggressive, high event game. Build as much depth as you can and hope that a couple of the guys you select turn into offensive monsters. They seem to have at least one offensive monster. They have a lot of lottery tickets for the second. They also have a lot of possible really good to great D-men.

Beyond that, go out and get what you need. I am very comfortable saying that if the Hawks want to wait for all of their prospects to turn into NHL players, it will be a complete waste of time and they will take far longer to get competitive.

The funniest thing for me... the goaltending is the steadiest position for this team at the moment.
- Chunk

Bottom line no matter how good your club is you need a lotta luck to win even one cup. More or less planets need to align for a franchise to win one cup.

Even with good draft choices KD construction job not finished. We need a power forward and probably a veteran scorer to go with all the kids. Hopefully we will be ok in net
- jhawk59

Power forward would be nice, if you can give me skilled players with great skating ability with compete I'll take that all day. They just don't grow on trees, i just watched us play the Leafs and the top 2 lines pretty much played keep away from us in the 1st period. They had so much more space to work with, as did that top line for the Wild with the Russian.

I can just see how dangerous Reichel at times is, i think Nazar is going to join that group soon, 2 players with great skating ability and hands. Bedard is a little slower but his skill level is off the charts and let's say we are lucky enough to draft Hagens/Martone/Misa then you sign Moore the forward group gets very interesting, quickly. I love the fact they are drafting many of those kids right now, and like Paul said they have drafted some size but other than Boisvert it sounds like they already have the skating part down they just need to work on their skills.

The other thing i need to mention for the we should be winning by now group, we were ranked towards the bottom of the prospect list, we only had one forward considered a top 6 candidate which was Reichel. Looks like they were not wrong either.

Now i believe we have 4 or 5 ranked in the top 100, considered one of the best minor league systems in hockey

And what was around him when he was signed ……..
- paulr

Yeah but they already had Havlat in place who had 77 points in 81 games and 15 in 16 in the playoffs. So it's not like they had a bum there. It was a pretty well established star player.

I'm saying they can skip Havlat and go straight to Hossa.

Good Lord, I have thoughts on Bedard. From over and over amazement at his shot to visceral, unfortunately for a grown man, reactions to his 2:00 shifts among 37 other things.

Someone who hadn't seen Bedard asked after they won the lottery what is it about the kid that makes him so great, generational. I had to stop and think too long for a guy like me, made me take inventory of what I think of the kid predraft

I simply answered his shot. Seeing it enough as a pro I do think he has the most wicked unstoppable shot I've ever seen. Kid could pick a sliver of a corner like nobody I've ever seen and do it with a release no human has ever shown.

This yr the kid hits the goalie in the belly or misses the net by 10 inches, which is like 2ft wide for all but 98% of the shooters in the NHL. Told me, yep, this kid is fighting it. IMO that's the frustration you see from him. First time ever his shot ain't going in on top of what even the greatest players went thru as a 19 yr old in the NHL.

Was probably BM who posted a link to Seravelli interviewing KD. Thought the interview stunk by the way but hung around the site and read around and Seravelli made a great point in one of his podcasts about Bedard's troubles this yr.

He said somewhere along the line Bedard decided he was an elite passer and started passing up shots this yr. That Bedard's shot is unholy and 99% of the time shooting is the right thing for him to do, not passing. IMO that is a bullseye observation and he articulated my thoughts for me.

No doubt the kid has very good vision and feel but none of those traits comes within miles of his shot, which to me is unholy. Listening to Seravelli as I shook my head yes brought me back to the question a poster asked before they even drafted him, what makes this kid great.

IMO I got that one right, it's his shot and when he decides otherwise and passes up a shot he's not elite, especially so when factoring his considerable weaknesses off the puck.
- Mr Ricochet

Agreed 100%. The kid needs to let it rip and be a little less selfless. At times the pass can open his shot but yes totally agree vast majority of the time it should be shots.

In the 350 to 450 range like Ovechkin does.

Yeah but they already had Havlat in place who had 77 points in 81 games and 15 in 16 in the playoffs. So it's not like they had a bum there. It was a pretty well established star player.

I'm saying they can skip Havlat and go straight to Hossa.
- fattybeef

Hossa wouldn't have signed with the Hawks unless they had their WCF team in place from the previous year.

Havlat was up and coming/didn't want term in Ottawa and we traded Bell for him in a multi-team deal. The Havlat trade is the type we need to make now.

Bottom line no matter how good your club is you need a lotta luck to win even one cup. More or less planets need to align for a franchise to win one cup.
- Mr Ricochet

Yup.

The schedule lightens up considerably this week aside from the Devils.

I think the smoke around the Nazar promotion around Christmas is due to the 7\8 home games right there at the end of December and start of January.

Dunno what difference 3 weeks makes at this time other than to try and move someone out.

Yeah but they already had Havlat in place who had 77 points in 81 games and 15 in 16 in the playoffs. So it's not like they had a bum there. It was a pretty well established star player.

I'm saying they can skip Havlat and go straight to Hossa.
- fattybeef

You’re try to confuse the issue, Havlat is irrelevant in this discussion.

The major pieces were in place, Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Keith, Hjalmarsson, and secondary players Sharp, Bolland, Versteeg, Campbell, Ladd, Byfuglien and the third tier Burish, Fraser, Eager, Brouwer. They knew what they had in 2009 and signed Hossa to round the team out. The signing was low risk.

What primary, secondary and third tier players on currently on the Hawks roster? When will they arrive? Who are they? Are we sure the Hawks even have them? I’ll help you, on the roster right now are three players who are potential future roster players, one is a primary guy. And they have two or three players who may prove themselves as fixtures down the road. Taking on an older guy is a huge risk, especially one commanding an 8 figure salary for seven years. What if the draft picks don’t pan out? What if they don’t have another top six forward? What if Arty and KK prove to be second or third pairing defensemen? Signing Rantanen is a huge risk at this time.

Watching the Avs/Sabres game, man the Avs are in trouble if they don’t upgrade their goaltending.