I just don't understand how "many Penguins fans are out of patience" hahaha...what were they really expecting this year? and its not like there's been a 3 or 4 decade cup drought. I dont know, maybe I'm crazy hahah

Hope he plays with speed.
- Grinder47

hahaha

I just don't understand how "many Penguins fans are out of patience" hahaha...what were they really expecting this year? and its not like there's been a 3 or 4 decade cup drought. I dont know, maybe I'm crazy hahah
- MattStrat

Doobie ain't trying to win this season, not sure why people think he's trying to build a competitive product lol

Doobie ain't trying to win this season, not sure why people think he's trying to build a competitive product lol
- j.boyd919

Right.

If you had any assessment ability last off season, you'd look at this team and think "We need a top line LW to replace Jake AND a top 4 LD to fix the Graves mistake." What did he get? Gryz and a handful of bottom 6 forwards. Not to mention a couple of cap dumps for picks.

For a team that had problem holding leads last season, adding Gryz was a "hold my beer" move.

Right.

If you had any assessment ability last off season, you'd look at this team and think "We need a top line LW to replace Jake AND a top 4 LD to fix the Graves mistake." What did he get? Gryz and a handful of bottom 6 forwards. Not to mention a couple of cap dumps for picks.

For a team that had problem holding leads last season, adding Gryz was a "hold my beer" move.
- madmike71

Exactly lol this team lacked finishing talent even before last year and failed to replace it even more so when they dumped Jake.

Even if you made 1 year signings with the anticipation of moving them at the deadline -- I feel like he could have gotten better bargain bin players though. Who is going to want Gryz even as a depth option going into the playoffs? He hasn't been good lol

Beauvillier should snatch a 2nd or a 3rd though, isn't he on pace for a career high in goals?

I just don't understand how "many Penguins fans are out of patience" hahaha...what were they really expecting this year? and its not like there's been a 3 or 4 decade cup drought. I dont know, maybe I'm crazy hahah
- MattStrat

I think it is more about people wanting to understand what the plan is because the moves he has made since he came on board have really made no sense. Are we going to tank this year and try a quick re-tool in the offseason?
Are we going full rebuild?

I actually think Dubas has been making the fatal mistake of trying to toe the line between competing and tanking.

First he traded for Karlsson in a move to try to compete, trading away a 1st and downgrading from a 2nd to 3rd pick.

Then he decides to give up on competing and trades away Guentzel prioritizing getting Bunting (a vet journeyman) over getting a better return in picks. He brought on Gryzelyk and Hayes in the offseason who are old and suck (don't tell me it was worth a 2nd rounder to bring in a 2yr +$3.5M cap hit). Confusing as to whether he was trying to make the team competitive or not.

It just doesn't make sense to do a huge trade and give away top notch draft assets for Karlsson and then less than a year later be testing the waters on whether or not we should tank or try to be decent. It seems like he is hoping to fall into the right plan rather than committing to one plan.

Just come out and say either A) we are going to suck this year but we are going to try to re-tool over the summer and compete for the playoffs next year. or B) we are rebuilding. The moves he has been making don't look like either of those scenarios.

I think it is more about people wanting to understand what the plan is because the moves he has made since he came on board have really made no sense. Are we going to tank this year and try a quick re-tool in the offseason?
Are we going full rebuild?

I actually think Dubas has been making the fatal mistake of trying to toe the line between competing and tanking.

First he traded for Karlsson in a move to try to compete, trading away a 1st and downgrading from a 2nd to 3rd pick.

Then he decides to give up on competing and trades away Guentzel prioritizing getting Bunting (a vet journeyman) over getting a better return in picks. He brought on Gryzelyk and Hayes in the offseason who are old and suck (don't tell me it was worth a 2nd rounder to bring in a 2yr +$3.5M cap hit). Confusing as to whether he was trying to make the team competitive or not.

It just doesn't make sense to do a huge trade and give away top notch draft assets for Karlsson and then less than a year later be testing the waters on whether or not we should tank or try to be decent. It seems like he is hoping to fall into the right plan rather than committing to one plan.

Just come out and say either A) we are going to suck this year but we are going to try to re-tool over the summer and compete for the playoffs next year. or B) we are rebuilding. The moves he has been making don't look like either of those scenarios.
- MacPatty

I think his plan A was EK will be an X factor and make the team stronger

Obvs that didn’t work so he’s scrambling on plan B. But he’s down already down a 1st, traded away the top prospect, brought in prospects that might not even be nhl players…his next move will Petts. A first in 25’ won’t crack the roster till 28’ at the earliest. Going to be difficult to build a team with 87 still around, although jr turned van around quick.

I just don't understand how "many Penguins fans are out of patience" hahaha...what were they really expecting this year? and its not like there's been a 3 or 4 decade cup drought. I dont know, maybe I'm crazy hahah
- MattStrat

I agree with Mac. I think the frustration lies with what we are told from the front office. If the plan is to get younger then why are you signing Grzelcyk over POJ? Why are you bringing in Bunting over additional picks and prospects? Why are you keeping Jarry (I heard we received trade offers for him after we saw Murashov play and knew he could take over in WBS)? Why not trade other pieces away as well in the offseason? Also why trade with Nashville? Finally why have our scouts at CBJ, Montreal, Nashville, SJS, Anaheim, and Utah games? He should come out and say the plan. His original plan was to get younger while being as competitive as we can be.


He also talked about the big 3 playing together and finishing their career together, but there are tons of insiders reporting that Letang may be available.

I think Dubas with his lack of transparency has the fan base nervous. I know a few old fans who have stated everyone is going to be traded like what previously happened with this team.

I agree with Mac. I think the frustration lies with what we are told from the front office. If the plan is to get younger then why are you signing Grzelcyk over POJ? Why are you bringing in Bunting over additional picks and prospects? Why are you keeping Jarry (I heard we received trade offers for him after we saw Murashov play and knew he could take over in WBS)? Why not trade other pieces away as well in the offseason? Also why trade with Nashville? Finally why have our scouts at CBJ, Montreal, Nashville, SJS, Anaheim, and Utah games? He should come out and say the plan. His original plan was to get younger while being as competitive as we can be.


He also talked about the big 3 playing together and finishing their career together, but there are tons of insiders reporting that Letang may be available.

I think Dubas with his lack of transparency has the fan base nervous. I know a few old fans who have stated everyone is going to be traded like what previously happened with this team.
- 123Kid

Agree, this is where fans lack patience. Anyone with a brain can see they threw away this year. But they keep talking like they are trying to compete soon and nobody is buying it. In fact it's pretty insulting.

If they laid out a plan or tore everything down, people would get on board. But it all seems pretty inconsistent. The Guentzel trade looks like one set for a quick reload; Bunting now, Ponomarov and Koivunen hopefully end of this year or next year. But then you get Hayes for two years for picks. Then get McGroarty hoping he could play now.

I just don't understand how "many Penguins fans are out of patience" hahaha...what were they really expecting this year? and its not like there's been a 3 or 4 decade cup drought. I dont know, maybe I'm crazy hahah
- MattStrat

Did you expect Utah to put up a six spot on them this year? To me it’s more about the things that could be fixed, which is ultimately the coach who has been a giant failure since 2018.

Agree, this is where fans lack patience. Anyone with a brain can see they threw away this year. But they keep talking like they are trying to compete soon and nobody is buying it. In fact it's pretty insulting.

If they laid out a plan or tore everything down, people would get on board. But it all seems pretty inconsistent. The Guentzel trade looks like one set for a quick reload; Bunting now, Ponomarov and Koivunen hopefully end of this year or next year. But then you get Hayes for two years for picks. Then get McGroarty hoping he could play now.
- Tojo.

There were no moves this offseason that led me to believe they were trying to compete lol I don't understand fans needing a declaration -- you saw the moves, you see how they play, you see the goaltending is trash, the finishing talent still isn't there -- this team was meant to be bad from the start.

I'm pretty sure he gave some quotes in the offseason about possibly not being competitive this year, I think Taylor Haas had reposted it recently.

Agree, this is where fans lack patience. Anyone with a brain can see they threw away this year. But they keep talking like they are trying to compete soon and nobody is buying it. In fact it's pretty insulting.

If they laid out a plan or tore everything down, people would get on board. But it all seems pretty inconsistent. The Guentzel trade looks like one set for a quick reload; Bunting now, Ponomarov and Koivunen hopefully end of this year or next year. But then you get Hayes for two years for picks. Then get McGroarty hoping he could play now.
- Tojo.

I wouldn't expect him to discourage fans from buying tickets. Like Boyd says, his comments were guarded at the beginning of the season.

JMO... He was hoping Sid and Letang could continue at the same level and possibly elevate some mid players. Pretty clear they can't do it. Sid is still good, but isn't exactly dominating. Letang was really good most of of last year, and really bad this year. Plus, EK has been sh!t. Same with Bunting and Rust. Not to mention the tending. Just a bad combination lol.

This was a hope roster. We all knew that. I'm a perpetual fan and I thought they'd JUST miss the playoffs. This is actually turning out better. Drafting high is the only way to rebuild. Most of the criticism I've heard is about Sullivan. Fans recognize he's not giving this team the best chance of winning or developing.

I wouldn't expect him to discourage fans from buying tickets. .
- madmike71

^^ this. Dubas is both President, Hockey Ops and acting GM, so he talks out of both sides of his mouth (at the same time).

Rak - Sid - rust
Beau - Geno - tomasino
Bunting - Lizotte - O’Connor
Nieto - Acari- Hayes

Pickering - Letang
Petts - ek
Shea - st. I

Some healthy participants. Team getting older again lol

I wouldn't expect him to discourage fans from buying tickets. Like Boyd says, his comments were guarded at the beginning of the season.

JMO... He was hoping Sid and Letang could continue at the same level and possibly elevate some mid players. Pretty clear they can't do it. Sid is still good, but isn't exactly dominating. Letang was really good most of of last year, and really bad this year. Plus, EK has been sh!t. Same with Bunting and Rust. Not to mention the tending. Just a bad combination lol.

This was a hope roster. We all knew that. I'm a perpetual fan and I thought they'd JUST miss the playoffs. This is actually turning out better. Drafting high is the only way to rebuild. Most of the criticism I've heard is about Sullivan. Fans recognize he's not giving this team the best chance of winning or developing.
- madmike71

I looked yesterday and I'm pretty sure the Pens are 1st in high danger chances for at 5v5, 3rd in scoring chances for at 5v5, and 1st in xGF at 5v5. Now... if you look at all the SC against, xGA, and high danger against... they are 3 of the worst in that lol they are basically running the trade chance for chance playbook and losing because they are still lacking what they have been lacking since trading Kessel 5 years ago, and now Guentzel.. finishing talent. They don't have the finishing talent to trade chances -- and they didn't do poop to replace either of those players production in recent years.

As a Flyer fan I am extremely happy they traded Yager, who I considered their best prospect since probably Crosby maybe. Not saying Yager is Crosby...just saying their best prospect since.
- Glak18

I think you mean center (so ignore Jake) and Jordan Staal was the best post Crosby but we couldn't keep him. Alas.

Yager? I think you are forgetting Luca Caputi. Come on, man!

I agree with Mac. I think the frustration lies with what we are told from the front office. If the plan is to get younger then why are you signing Grzelcyk over POJ? Why are you bringing in Bunting over additional picks and prospects? Why are you keeping Jarry (I heard we received trade offers for him after we saw Murashov play and knew he could take over in WBS)? Why not trade other pieces away as well in the offseason? Also why trade with Nashville? Finally why have our scouts at CBJ, Montreal, Nashville, SJS, Anaheim, and Utah games? He should come out and say the plan. His original plan was to get younger while being as competitive as we can be.


He also talked about the big 3 playing together and finishing their career together, but there are tons of insiders reporting that Letang may be available.

I think Dubas with his lack of transparency has the fan base nervous. I know a few old fans who have stated everyone is going to be traded like what previously happened with this team.
- 123Kid

I think this is the problem. What he says and what he does don’t match up. You want to get younger, but he’s only signed guys over 30. He let POJ walk to sign a way worse older dman.

I think the frustration is or should be the same as it was with Hextall... "Whats the plan?" Is there a plan? Dubas goes out and gets Karlsson and Bunting and signs Jarry and Graves long term but is secretly rebuilding? Did he really come with a 1 year plan!? Is this plan to try and finish in the 18-22 range?
I wouldnt say its a secret hes fully willing to trade away Letang or Malkin if he can which some were pissed about before with those rumors about Hextall doing it.

I still this Dubas gets a huge free pass for whatever reason but soon enough his extreme lack of player evaluation skills will catch up to him. He signed Graves and said he was a top pairing caliber dman... signs Jarry long term to be the starter... his entire bottom 6 forwards his first year being all defensive type players... adding Bunting... I fully believe he also thought Gryz could take on a top 4 dman role. These are all huge player evaluation errors...

The McGroarty for Yager trade... Not great from the get go on day 1 of that trade IMO. The jets were in a bad position and everyone knew it. Mcgroarty wasnt signing there ever. Yager and Mcgroarty were the same level of prospect. Yes some had Mcgroarty ranked 15 or so players higher but thats in the same tier of prospect. And if hes "rebuilding" why was he so set on getting a player that was "more NHL ready"??? Now if he gave away Ponomarev, Poulin and Broz for Mcgroarty I could see it.

To sum it up like Ive said 10-20 times, IMO pens fans #1, #2 and #3 hopes and priorities should be for Dubas to hire a GM as 1 of the huge jobs for a GM is player evaluation.

I think the frustration is or should be the same as it was with Hextall... "Whats the plan?" Is there a plan? Dubas goes out and gets Karlsson and Bunting and signs Jarry and Graves long term but is secretly rebuilding? Did he really come with a 1 year plan!? Is this plan to try and finish in the 18-22 range?
I wouldnt say its a secret hes fully willing to trade away Letang or Malkin if he can which some were pissed about before with those rumors about Hextall doing it.

I still this Dubas gets a huge free pass for whatever reason but soon enough his extreme lack of player evaluation skills will catch up to him. He signed Graves and said he was a top pairing caliber dman... signs Jarry long term to be the starter... his entire bottom 6 forwards his first year being all defensive type players... adding Bunting... I fully believe he also thought Gryz could take on a top 4 dman role. These are all huge player evaluation errors...

The McGroarty for Yager trade... Not great from the get go on day 1 of that trade IMO. The jets were in a bad position and everyone knew it. Mcgroarty wasnt signing there ever. Yager and Mcgroarty were the same level of prospect. Yes some had Mcgroarty ranked 15 or so players higher but thats in the same tier of prospect. And if hes "rebuilding" why was he so set on getting a player that was "more NHL ready"??? Now if he gave away Ponomarev, Poulin and Broz for Mcgroarty I could see it.

To sum it up like Ive said 10-20 times, IMO pens fans #1, #2 and #3 hopes and priorities should be for Dubas to hire a GM as 1 of the huge jobs for a GM is player evaluation.
- pens4life-66

I think he saw the Pens were on the brink of the playoffs and went out to swing for the fences with EK for one last kick at the can before rebuilding, that didn't work, so he shifted gears into somethin that'll take longer.

I definitely have questions about his player evaluations -- they've been scattered.

Not going to respond to every single one of you that responded to me and continued this topic, read every word. I get what you're all saying, for sure. In general I've always had a lot of patience in life and maybe that's a big factor in why I'm not at all rattled by the Penguins organization right now.

Not going to respond to every single one of you that responded to me and continued this topic, read every word. I get what you're all saying, for sure. In general I've always had a lot of patience in life and maybe that's a big factor in why I'm not at all rattled by the Penguins organization right now.
- MattStrat

You are more rattled than Jim Rutherford looking at the schedule and seeing Tom Wilson's Caps come to town.

You are more rattled than Jim Rutherford looking at the schedule and seeing Tom Wilson's Caps come to town.
- j.boyd919

hahahah

I think he saw the Pens were on the brink of the playoffs and went out to swing for the fences with EK for one last kick at the can before rebuilding, that didn't work, so he shifted gears into somethin that'll take longer.

I definitely have questions about his player evaluations -- they've been scattered.
- j.boyd919

See that to me is a horrendous "plan" if that was his set plan because it wasnt just EK. We have Graves and Jarry as well. Especially when he comes in and totally botches a bottom 6 forward group that he specifically made.

And if thats the case, for more recent moves in the past 6 months, why did he want Bunting when he was trading away the top trade chip at a deadline?

Also, why trade Yager for a more "NHL ready prospect" when you are rebuilding? Unless it was a no brainer trade and you are clearly without a doubt are getting the better prospect?

Even still hes adding these 30 year old type players in the "hopes" of getting a 4th round pick meanwhile completely blocking all ice time for the young kids?
Maybe he does have some kinda plan but looking at everything in total, I see no rebuilding "plan".

Agree, this is where fans lack patience. Anyone with a brain can see they threw away this year. But they keep talking like they are trying to compete soon and nobody is buying it. In fact it's pretty insulting.

If they laid out a plan or tore everything down, people would get on board. But it all seems pretty inconsistent. The Guentzel trade looks like one set for a quick reload; Bunting now, Ponomarov and Koivunen hopefully end of this year or next year. But then you get Hayes for two years for picks. Then get McGroarty hoping he could play now.
- Tojo.

Pens werent punting on this season and wi not punt on any season as long as Sid..Malkin and Letang are there

See that to me is a horrendous "plan" if that was his set plan because it wasnt just EK. We have Graves and Jarry as well. Especially when he comes in and totally botches a bottom 6 forward group that he specifically made.

And if thats the case, for more recent moves in the past 6 months, why did he want Bunting when he was trading away the top trade chip at a deadline?

Also, why trade Yager for a more "NHL ready prospect" when you are rebuilding? Unless it was a no brainer trade and you are clearly without a doubt are getting the better prospect?

Even still hes adding these 30 year old type players in the "hopes" of getting a 4th round pick meanwhile completely blocking all ice time for the young kids?
Maybe he does have some kinda plan but looking at everything in total, I see no rebuilding "plan".
- pens4life-66

Thats is correct..