His teams haven't won. Those Islanders teams weren't the 1970s Islanders. The Leafs are the Leafs.

JT's stats alone are those of a legit first overall pick. I don't think that's a controversial take at all, it seems something that has been directly observable since he has entered the league, if you're a hockey fan.
- Zezel

JT is by a wide margin the highest scorer to emerge from the 2009 draft. At 34, he will have more than 1300 points before retiring if he stays relatively healthy. There are currently 6 NHL players that scored more than 1300 points that are not in the Hockey Hall of Fame. All six are either still playing, or not yet eligible. Don't listen to the drivel spewed by Common_Poop. His posts offer less value to the Leaf blog than Spatso.

I’m reading this on my Apple IIc with green monochrome monitor.
- Atomic Wedgie

Nice!!

You finally upgraded

JT is by a wide margin the highest scorer to emerge from the 2009 draft. At 34, he will have more than 1300 points before retiring if he stays relatively healthy. There are currently 6 NHL players that scored more than 1300 points that are not in the Hockey Hall of Fame. All six are either still playing, or not yet eligible. Don't listen to the drivel spewed by Common_Poop. His posts offer less value to the Leaf blog than Spatso.
- winsix

Good points Winsie. I mean, I knew JT had lived up to his pick, but honestly I didn't even realize how strong his case actually is, but when you put it that way it's quite strong in my opinion.

JT is by a wide margin the highest scorer to emerge from the 2009 draft. At 34, he will have more than 1300 points before retiring if he stays relatively healthy. There are currently 6 NHL players that scored more than 1300 points that are not in the Hockey Hall of Fame. All six are either still playing, or not yet eligible. Don't listen to the drivel spewed by Common_Poop. His posts offer less value to the Leaf blog than Spatso.
- winsix

If he plays another healthy contract and wins a Cup he's HOF.

He seems to be one of those hockey and fitness pros that go from first line all star to still playing significant NHL roles while pushing 40.

His teams haven't won. Those Islanders teams weren't the 1970s Islanders. The Leafs are the Leafs.

JT's stats alone are those of a legit first overall pick. I don't think that's a controversial take at all, it seems something that has been directly observable since he has entered the league, if you're a hockey fan.
- Zezel

Don’t forget 2014 Olympic gold.

A small consideration, but it will be on his resume come HHOF voting time.

I was wondering how many 1st overalls were HHOFers.

I have to admit, I thought the percentage was much higher.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...t_overall_NHL_draft_picks

Come on people now.

Smile on your brother everybody get together try to love one another right now!

Don’t forget 2014 Olympic gold.

A small consideration, but it will be on his resume come HHOF voting time.
- Atomic Wedgie

He will be a close call, but I think he will get in. A decent comparable is Jeremy Roenick. No cups, 9 all star selections, 1216 points. Career .892 points per game. Daniel Alfredsson is in the HHOF with 1246 points about .9257 and six all star selections. Both these players have better +/- stats if that counts for anything.

JT has only 6 all star selections, with 1095 points .9399 Points per game, he has a decent shot at getting in IMHO. He should get more than 205 points over the next four or five seasons.

I was wondering how many 1st overalls were HHOFers.

I have to admit, I thought the percentage was much higher.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...t_overall_NHL_draft_picks
- Atomic Wedgie

It really is an interesting list. The draft meant much less prior to the 67 expansion. Players could be signed to junior amateur contracts and the stars never made it to the draft. Bobby Orr was signed to a junior amateur contract at age 12, and signed a pro deal with the Bruins at age 18. One cool note on this list is that even though he did not hockey very well, the 1966 pick of the Bruins (the year that Orr signed) went on to have a very substantial career as the leader of the Bee Gees.

His teams haven't won. Those Islanders teams weren't the 1970s Islanders. The Leafs are the Leafs.
- Zezel

His skill level and expectation was that he could carry the Islanders back to glory. Granted, his team sucked and he still put up points but when he joined the Leafs, he joined the most offensively stacked team he had ever played on. The blue and white logic around here was that if he could turn garbage players into 30-40 goal scorers therefore "just imagine how much he would score if he had all-stars like Matthews, Marner and Nylander to play with."

The results? They were Leafy but not because of the Leafs but rather because Tavares himself, in his prime, did not reach that MVP level of play that he was expected to be as the 2nd highest paid player in the league at the time.

JT's stats alone are those of a legit first overall pick. I don't think that's a controversial take at all, it seems something that has been directly observable since he has entered the league, if you're a hockey fan.

You're going to have to define what "legit" means to you.

To me, it means best, most accomplished player of his draft class and at some point, the best in the NHL in some shape or form.

As a fan of hockey, Tavares has put up a lot of points and yet never won a damn thing in the NHL and never been at the highest level of "1st overall" player. He's not Nail Yakupov but he never got to the level of Stamkos, Kane, McDavid, MacKinnon, Ovechkin or Crosby even though he was supposed to be that "exceptional player" that had generational talent.

Even Rick Nash, Thornton, Kovalchuk, the Sedins, Taylor Hall and Lecavalier can at least say they won something, even if it was an individual award.

JT is by a wide margin the highest scorer to emerge from the 2009 draft. At 34, he will have more than 1300 points before retiring if he stays relatively healthy. There are currently 6 NHL players that scored more than 1300 points that are not in the Hockey Hall of Fame. All six are either still playing, or not yet eligible. Don't listen to the drivel spewed by Common_Poop. His posts offer less value to the Leaf blog than Spatso.
- winsix

And yet if anybody got to redo that draft with what they know today, Victor Hedman would have been the 1st overall pick. Having the most points doesn't tell the whole story.

In fact, Tavares might not even go 2nd because one could argue Ryan O'Reilly, having won a Selke, Conn Smythe and Cup probably is the more accomplished player despite having less points.

When you go from exceptional player status, to 1st overall, you're expected to be, at some point, in the top tier of the entire league, not just your draft class.

Tavares has been neither.

Thus far...

Zero MVPs. Zero Richards. Zero Art Ross. Zero Conn Smythes. Zero Cups.

Zero 50 goal seasons. Zero 100 point seasons.

Zero seasons beyond the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Yes, he has a lot of points and will probably be in the HHOF but so is Mike Gartner.

Don’t forget 2014 Olympic gold.

A small consideration, but it will be on his resume come HHOF voting time.
- Atomic Wedgie

Tavares is Mike Gartner. Maybe worse.

His skill level and expectation was that he could carry the Islanders back to glory. Granted, his team sucked and he put up points but when he joined the Leafs, he joined the most offensively stacked team he had ever played on. The blue and white logic around here was that if he could turn garbage players into 30-40 goal scorer therefore "just imagine how much potential he would unlock if he had all-stars like Matthews, Marner and Nylander to play with."

The results? They were Leafy but not because of the Leafs but rather because Tavares himself, in his prime, did not reach that MVP level of play that he was expected to be as the 2nd highest paid player in the league at the time.



As a fan of hockey, Tavares has put up a lot of points and yet never won a damn thing in the NHL and never been at the highest level of "1st overall" player. He's not Nail Yakupov but he never got to the level of Stamkos, Kane, McDavid, MacKinnon, Ovechkin or Crosby even though he was supposed to be that "exceptional player" that had generational talent.

Even Rick Nash, Thornton, Kovalchuk, the Sedins, Taylor Hall and Lecavalier can at least say they won something, even if it was an individual award.



And yet if anybody got to redo that draft with what they know today, Victor Hedman would have been the 1st overall pick. Having the most points doesn't tell the whole story.

In fact, Tavares might not even go 2nd because one could argue Ryan O'Reilly, having won a Selke, Conn Smythe and Cup probably is the more accomplished player despite having less points.

When you go from exceptional player status, to 1st overall, you're expected to be, at some point, in the top tier of the entire league, not just your draft class.

Tavares has been neither.

Thus far...

Zero MVPs. Zero Richards. Zero Art Ross. Zero Conn Smythes. Zero Cups.

Zero 50 goal seasons. Zero 100 point seasons.

Zero seasons beyond the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Yes, he has a lot of points and will probably be in the HHOF but so is Mike Gartner.



Tavares is Mike Gartner. Maybe worse.
- Rare_Jewel

Trump is poopler. Maybe worse.

His skill level and expectation was that he could carry the Islanders back to glory. Granted, his team sucked and he still put up points but when he joined the Leafs, he joined the most offensively stacked team he had ever played on. The blue and white logic around here was that if he could turn garbage players into 30-40 goal scorers therefore "just imagine how much he would score if he had all-stars like Matthews, Marner and Nylander to play with."

The results? They were Leafy but not because of the Leafs but rather because Tavares himself, in his prime, did not reach that MVP level of play that he was expected to be as the 2nd highest paid player in the league at the time.



You're going to have to define what "legit" means to you.

To me, it means best, most accomplished player of his draft class and at some point, the best in the NHL in some shape or form.

As a fan of hockey, Tavares has put up a lot of points and yet never won a damn thing in the NHL and never been at the highest level of "1st overall" player. He's not Nail Yakupov but he never got to the level of Stamkos, Kane, McDavid, MacKinnon, Ovechkin or Crosby even though he was supposed to be that "exceptional player" that had generational talent.

Even Rick Nash, Thornton, Kovalchuk, the Sedins, Taylor Hall and Lecavalier can at least say they won something, even if it was an individual award.



And yet if anybody got to redo that draft with what they know today, Victor Hedman would have been the 1st overall pick. Having the most points doesn't tell the whole story.

In fact, Tavares might not even go 2nd because one could argue Ryan O'Reilly, having won a Selke, Conn Smythe and Cup probably is the more accomplished player despite having less points.

When you go from exceptional player status, to 1st overall, you're expected to be, at some point, in the top tier of the entire league, not just your draft class.

Tavares has been neither.

Thus far...

Zero MVPs. Zero Richards. Zero Art Ross. Zero Conn Smythes. Zero Cups.

Zero 50 goal seasons. Zero 100 point seasons.

Zero seasons beyond the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Yes, he has a lot of points and will probably be in the HHOF but so is Mike Gartner.



Tavares is Mike Gartner. Maybe worse.
- Rare_Jewel

Tavares is rad.

Rare_Jewel = Unholy_Goalie.

Always posts well after midnight, so likely a Canucks fan, or doesn't work and stays up all night eating cheezies and polishing his orange knob to look like his hero, Trumplestiltskin.

Not a serious person, not worthy of talking to.

Hi, I'm Galactic Stone and welcome to HockeyBuzz.

My back still hurts and the Leafs are still great.

Hi, I'm Galactic Stone and welcome to HockeyBuzz.

My back still hurts and the Leafs are still great.
- GalacticStone

Welcome friend. Need a rubdown?

Also...

[Pagnotta] Maple Leafs’ Marner Seeking at Least $104 Million in Free Agency (13M x 8years)

Pay the man.

Welcome friend. Need a rubdown?

Also...


- gravyface[Pagnotta] Maple Leafs’ Marner Seeking at Least $104 Million in Free Agency (13M x 8years)

Pay the man.

Marner is worth every penny. Pay the man and get it over with.

And yes, Nylander is also worth every penny.

It is indeed possible to love both of them, and the Leafs, but not a Tkachuk.

Welcome friend. Need a rubdown?

Also...


- gravyface[Pagnotta] Maple Leafs’ Marner Seeking at Least $104 Million in Free Agency (13M x 8years)

Pay the man.

8 x 12.93 should get him to sign.

Don’t forget 2014 Olympic gold.

A small consideration, but it will be on his resume come HHOF voting time.
- Atomic Wedgie

People need to get their heads out of the 80's. Scoring was down 2 years after the lockout when everything equalized after that PP bonanza. FFS there was a year where the Art Ross winner had 89 points. Until the past few years, one or two guys would score 100 a year.

2023/24 = 9 players over 100 points
2022/2023 = 11 players over 100 points
2021/2022 = 8 players over 100 points
Will just keep the covid years out for sake of it being odd
2018/2019 = 6 players over 100 points
2017/2018 = 3 players over 100 points
2016/2017 = 1 player over 100 points
2015/2016 = 1 player over 100 points
2014/2015 = 0 players over 100 (JT 1 point from winning the Art Ross lol)
2013/2014 = 1 player over 100 points
2011/2012 = 1 player over 100
2010/2011 = 1 player over 100


And so on. He played the majority of his career, especially his prime, where only the very few exceptions scored 100 points+.

Picked an 80's season at random

84/85 = 16 guys over 100 points including a "John Ogrodnick?"

I was wondering how many 1st overalls were HHOFers.

I have to admit, I thought the percentage was much higher.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...t_overall_NHL_draft_picks
- Atomic Wedgie

Let's see. From the recent guys. HOFers are likely to be

Thornton
Kovalchuk
Fleury
OV
Crosby
Kane
Stamkos
Tavares (unless Rare has his say)
MacKinnon
Ekblad? (depends heavily on Cups I'd imagine...can't see him ever winning the Norris)
McDavid
Matthews

rest are way too early to tell b

Is it me or do you just get the feeling that Mitchy Biscuits is going to be a Sabre next year?

Sweet contract you got Nylander signed for by the way!

Let's see. From the recent guys. HOFers are likely to be

Thornton
Kovalchuk
Fleury
OV
Crosby
Kane
Stamkos
Tavares (unless Rare has his say)
MacKinnon
Ekblad? (depends heavily on Cups I'd imagine...can't see him ever winning the Norris)
McDavid
Matthews

rest are way too early to tell b
- AdamFrench

I have my doubts about Thornton.

Kovalchuk will not be going to the HHOF.

Voters won't forgive him for going to the KHL, and his return to the NHL was a complete bust.

876 career NHL points drops you down to guys who get a pass because of injuries that cut their careers short (Bure, Lindros, Forsberg).

No NHL trophies of any kind.

40 total NHL playoff games (not his fault, but that doesn't matter).

He's not getting in.

People need to get their heads out of the 80's. Scoring was down 2 years after the lockout when everything equalized after that PP bonanza. FFS there was a year where the Art Ross winner had 89 points. Until the past few years, one or two guys would score 100 a year.

2023/24 = 9 players over 100 points
2022/2023 = 11 players over 100 points
2021/2022 = 8 players over 100 points
Will just keep the covid years out for sake of it being odd
2018/2019 = 6 players over 100 points
2017/2018 = 3 players over 100 points
2016/2017 = 1 player over 100 points
2015/2016 = 1 player over 100 points
2014/2015 = 0 players over 100 (JT 1 point from winning the Art Ross lol)
2013/2014 = 1 player over 100 points
2011/2012 = 1 player over 100
2010/2011 = 1 player over 100


And so on. He played the majority of his career, especially his prime, where only the very few exceptions scored 100 points+.

Picked an 80's season at random

84/85 = 16 guys over 100 points including a "John Ogrodnick?"
- AdamFrench

Only 49 less NHL points than Kovalchuk - and nobody thinks he's going to the HHOF.

I have my doubts about Thornton.

Kovalchuk will not be going to the HHOF.

Voters won't forgive him for going to the KHL, and his return to the NHL was a complete bust.

876 career NHL points drops you down to guys who get a pass because of injuries that cut their careers short (Bure, Lindros, Forsberg).

No NHL trophies of any kind.

40 total NHL playoff games (not his fault, but that doesn't matter).

He's not getting in.
- Atomic Wedgie

If Thoronton doesnt get it, I dont see JT getting in then

Treliving should thank Marner for not letting him trade him for a worse winger.

Arguing that an athlete is useless because he hasn't won anything significant when said athlete plays a sport where there are 19 other athletes involved is certainly something